12 votes

The V Programming Language

22 comments

  1. [14]
    imperialismus
    Link
    V is for Vaporware Can't believe this guy is pulling in $800/month on Patreon for this.

    V is for Vaporware

    Can't believe this guy is pulling in $800/month on Patreon for this.

    29 votes
    1. [4]
      SourceContribute
      Link Parent
      This is the real danger of a vaporware project like this. Instead of donating to the many good free/open source projects out there that actually need support...these people are donating (and...

      This is the real danger of a vaporware project like this. Instead of donating to the many good free/open source projects out there that actually need support...these people are donating (and starring/bookmarking on GitHub) a project that hasn't proven its worth.

      I use magit, an Emacs git mode, every single day at work and it receives $10/month in donations. And there are far more users of it than V, ~4000 stars on GitHub (if that's an indicator of anything). I just can't believe this vaporware project is draining attention and money and time from other projects.

      14 votes
      1. [3]
        hungariantoast
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        EDIT: This comment was poorly written so I want to clarify that I'm definitely not suggesting that Jonas is sketchy or anything like that. Click a few links on Patreon or Librepay and it becomes...

        EDIT: This comment was poorly written so I want to clarify that I'm definitely not suggesting that Jonas is sketchy or anything like that. Click a few links on Patreon or Librepay and it becomes obvious that Jonas is the primary maintainer of Magit and supporting him == supporting Magit. The point I was trying to make (and did a poor job of) was the ambiguity between the wording and structure of the Librepay page being a donation page for Magit, under which Jonas is the sole recipient versus the Patron page, with is specifically Jonas' page.

        That's actually very interesting because the Patreon link on Magit's homepage is to a page for Jonas Bernoulli, who receives $400+ a month.

        Do you know how much (if any) of that money is shared with the rest of the developers of Magit and how much work (if any) Jonas currently (or has) put into the Magit project?

        I'm not saying by any means that he's like, a fraudster or anything, but it does raise the question of who the money goes to and what it benefits as far as the relationship between Jonas and the Magit project. Are they the same thing? What's the difference between the Liberapay page and the Patreon page? Lots of questions.

        Still though, compared to the $800+ a month that V's developer is receiving, Magit should definitely be getting more donations, in my opinion.

        Just for fun, here's some other Patreon pages mentioned or ran by people involved in the conversation on Lobsters:

        • musl, a nearly decade old C standard library

        • Zig, a language that actually has a shot at replacing C (and is my personal favorite in the "over my head" programming language category)

        • Odin, another programming language with the intent (and potential) of replacing C

        And, just because it's a personal favorite, there's also this project:

        • Tildes, a non-profit site that respects its users and prioritizes quality content. It has no advertising, no investors, and is supported by your donations.
        4 votes
        1. SourceContribute
          Link Parent
          That's a good point; it's difficult to see the overall $/month raised when it's spread across various sites. I think OpenCollective is a good idea for that reason, a bit more transparency about...

          That's actually very interesting because the Patreon link on Magit's homepage is to a page for Jonas Bernoulli, who receives $400+ a month.
          ...
          Are they the same thing? What's the difference between the Liberapay page and the Patreon page? Lots of questions.

          That's a good point; it's difficult to see the overall $/month raised when it's spread across various sites. I think OpenCollective is a good idea for that reason, a bit more transparency about the money coming in and then being spent for free/open source projects.

          5 votes
        2. cadadr
          Link Parent
          That is how Patreon is supposed to work tho: it is about supporting the creators, not their individual projects (or at least that's what I gathered when I was researching about it when I was...

          That is how Patreon is supposed to work tho: it is about supporting the creators, not their individual projects (or at least that's what I gathered when I was researching about it when I was considering starting a creative project funded using it). IDK how active Bernoulli is within Magit, but he's quite active within the Emacs community (helps a lot with Melpa for example) and I do think he deserves the support.

          3 votes
    2. ainar-g
      Link Parent
      This is the funniest shit I've read all week. Thank you!
      V has a http module. It leaves a lot to be desired. My favorite part is the implementation of download_file on macOS:
      fn download_file(url, out string) {
      	// println('\nDOWNLOAD FILE $out url=$url')
      	// -L follow redirects
      	// println('curl -L -o "$out" "$url"')
      	os.system2('curl -s -L -o "$out" "$url"')
      	// res := os.system('curl -s -L -o "$out" "$url"')
      	// println(res)
      }
      

      This has no error checking (the function os.system2 returns the exit code of curl) and it shells out to curl instead of using libcurl. (…)

      This is the funniest shit I've read all week. Thank you!

      7 votes
    3. [4]
      apoctr
      Link Parent
      Is..is that HTML formatted as markdown?

      Is..is that HTML formatted as markdown?

      5 votes
      1. mftrhu
        Link Parent
        Yes, and it's done via pure CSS, and it's beautiful. :') You could easily do something like that for, say, org-mode or -man macros, you just have to throw enough :before and :after at it.

        Yes, and it's done via pure CSS, and it's beautiful. :')

        You could easily do something like that for, say, org-mode or -man macros, you just have to throw enough :before and :after at it.

        8 votes
      2. [2]
        Elronnd
        Link Parent
        Can't speak for the rest of it, but using > for quotes is pretty standard practice in general. And code is formatted properly.

        Can't speak for the rest of it, but using > for quotes is pretty standard practice in general. And code is formatted properly.

        1. apoctr
          Link Parent
          It's the use of markdown headers, italics and inline code that stood out to me. In my experience quotes on webpages are styled differently and aren't represented as their markdown equivalent....

          It's the use of markdown headers, italics and inline code that stood out to me. In my experience quotes on webpages are styled differently and aren't represented as their markdown equivalent. Links and block code are properly styled though, so it's more a weird hybrid of markdown and HTML.

          5 votes
    4. [2]
      mrbig
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      Silly question: is there a programming language for every letter of the alphabet?

      Silly question: is there a programming language for every letter of the alphabet?

      2 votes
      1. mftrhu
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        Yes. Off the top of my head - APL, B (precursor to C), C/C++, D, E, F#, J (an ASCII-only APL), K (similar to J and APL), Q (built by the same person as K), R. And, mind you, there's more...

        Yes.

        Off the top of my head - APL, B (precursor to C), C/C++, D, E, F#, J (an ASCII-only APL), K (similar to J and APL), Q (built by the same person as K), R.

        And, mind you, there's more programming languages than what Wikipedia lists. The Online Historical Encyclopedia of Programming Languages (HOPL) lists over 9000, but more are being written every day, and there's enough programming languages whose name is a word that you could probably write a short story with them by now (go, forth, rust, elixir, dart, squirrel, terra, pony, chicken, icon, lisp, scheme, guile, gambit, larceny...)

        Edit: also see One Letter Programming Languages, from this Lobsters thread.

        9 votes
    5. [2]
      mozz
      Link Parent
      Startup founders regularly overpromise about unfinished features, and no one bats an eye when they pull in millions of VC funding money. What do you think it is about this guy's Patreon that has...

      Startup founders regularly overpromise about unfinished features, and no one bats an eye when they pull in millions of VC funding money. What do you think it is about this guy's Patreon that has people feeling so indignant?

      1 vote
      1. imperialismus
        Link Parent
        Startup culture is completely whack, and I can't speak to the larger cultural trends that have normalized this sort of bullshit. But this is a developer-centric project, targeting developers. VCs...

        Startup culture is completely whack, and I can't speak to the larger cultural trends that have normalized this sort of bullshit. But this is a developer-centric project, targeting developers. VCs are not expected to be as tech-savvy as the people who actually build the products they're investing in. I personally don't understand how this guy managed to lure in so many people who should really know better.

        10 votes
  2. [2]
    hungariantoast
    Link
    First, source code. Second, the post on Lobsters announcing the release of V's source code generated some interesting discussion between Andrew Chambers, a developer of Janet and Andrew Kelley, a...

    First, source code.

    Second, the post on Lobsters announcing the release of V's source code generated some interesting discussion between Andrew Chambers, a developer of Janet and Andrew Kelley, a developer of Zig. Chambers elsewhere in the post derided V's developer Alex Medvednikov as "a far better hype man than he is anything else." Saying "I am a bit jealous, I don’t know how to start an OSS project with so many donations. Being liberal with what you promise seems to help."

    18 votes
    1. SourceContribute
      Link Parent
      I wonder if V's developer shouldn't just sell his skills as a marketer to other FOSS projects that are sorely in need of donations.

      I wonder if V's developer shouldn't just sell his skills as a marketer to other FOSS projects that are sorely in need of donations.

      5 votes
  3. apoctr
    (edited )
    Link
    The section on their compiler is certainly entertaining. "Look how massive and bloated these C compilers are, while V is tiny with no dependencies!" right next to "actually we require one of those...

    The section on their compiler is certainly entertaining. "Look how massive and bloated these C compilers are, while V is tiny with no dependencies!" right next to "actually we require one of those massive compilers as a dependency, but it's okay because...it's small and you probably already have it?"

    Edit: also doesn't build on OpenBSD, but looks like that's down to being unable to find execinfo.h which is probably solvable.

    17 votes
  4. Soptik
    Link
    I tried to use V, but following official install from source instructions (which btw included step “compile at ~/code/ otherwise it won’t work”) resulted in segfault while building. I found some...

    I tried to use V, but following official install from source instructions (which btw included step “compile at ~/code/ otherwise it won’t work”) resulted in segfault while building. I found some old github issue and made a workaround to make it work. Then I copy-pasted one of the example programs on the website which didn’t compile because of syntax error.

    I don’t think I’ll use this language anytime soon.

    9 votes
  5. hungariantoast
    Link
    Following up some of the (very negative) discussion in the V is for Vaporware post on Lobsters, Andrew Chambers made (yet another) post about V: V: positive lessons

    Following up some of the (very negative) discussion in the V is for Vaporware post on Lobsters, Andrew Chambers made (yet another) post about V:

    V: positive lessons

    6 votes
  6. [3]
    Litmus2336
    Link
    Memory Leak in Hello World. Oof

    Memory Leak in Hello World. Oof

    4 votes
    1. [2]
      SourceContribute
      Link Parent
      Last time I had one of those was when I was trying ASM and...it wasn't just a memory leak, full on seg-faulting :-D

      Last time I had one of those was when I was trying ASM and...it wasn't just a memory leak, full on seg-faulting :-D

      3 votes
      1. Litmus2336
        Link Parent
        Hey I mean the seg fault frees the memory :P

        Hey I mean the seg fault frees the memory :P

        2 votes