11 votes

Please criticize my idea for CHORES - a short-term TODO app for ADHD people (and myself in particular)

Introduction

I'm a beginner in programming, but a veteran in film and literature. I know that ideas come easy. Any normal person can come up with a good idea in a matter of minutes. The main problem is doing it.

Besides, I couldn't care less if someone does that before me. I'd probably benefit from their program, and even offer to collaborate. I have a bunch of other ideas in the oven anyway.

And I'm humble enough to know that such a niche project would never attract the interest of a mega-corporation anyway.

2. What is CHORES?

CHORES is a short-term task manager. It's meant to organize nothing more than a few hours or less of your tasks. Month, weak or even your entire day are entirely out of its scope.

3. Who is CHORES for?

First and foremost, this app is for my use. But I'm certain there are other people with conditions similar to mine, especially ones with ADHD. I'm also autistic with a compulsive personality, and won't stop until I tinker with every aspect of an object. Not surprisingly, I'm a Linux, i3wm, Emacs and Neovim user. And they're excruciatingly customized.

What I need is not a full-featured a TODO app like Remember The Milk, Todoist or Org Mode. They're too distracting, I end up just playing with the tools. I need something that allows me to track very short term chores. Thinks like brushing my teeth, taking a shower, eating, walking my dog, washing the dishes and making my bed.

That's what I intend to do.

4. What is ADHD

From the United States National Institute of Mental Health:

Attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) is a disorder marked by an ongoing pattern of inattention and/or hyperactivity-impulsivity that interferes with functioning or development.

4.1 Warning

Please refrain from suggesting that the ones who use such tools just need to make an effort instead. That's a cliche most people with ADHD and other mental health issues probably heard many times, and by saying that you may cause distress. If you need more information, please refer to the link posted above.

5. Why another "TODO" app?

People with severe ADHD like myself frequently forget what they're doing, and what they should do in the very short term. I'm talking 2, 3 or 5 tasks from now. To give you an idea of how bad it is, right now I have an Emacs Org Mode file with the following tasks:

* Now
** TODO Take Ritalin
** TODO Start chronometer on Ritalin
  - Tells me when the effect wears off
** TODO Take a shower
** TODO Take the laptop to the living room
** TODO Wash the dishes
** TODO Study Python
** TODO Post on Tildes

But Emacs and Org Mode do a lot more than that, and this can be very distracting (right now I'm writing this post because creating another file from my now.org file was way too easy, for example).

Considering that I am the main target audience of this program, any space for tinkering is a dangerous avenue for procrastination.

6. Who is CHORES for

The primary target of this project are people with:

  1. ADHD (Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder)
  2. similar conditions or personality traits

In sum: if you have extreme difficulty focusing, remembering and fulfilling your tasks in the very short term, you may find this program useful.

7. Who is CHORES not for

The majority of people can concentrate and perform their short-term tasks with a reasonable degree of efficiency. If that is your case, you have little to gain by using CHORES.

8. Features

CHORES is a short-term task manager. It's meant to organize nothing more than a few hours: not your month, weak or even your day.

  1. CLI Linux app (Mac, Windows, GUI, and mobile could happen in the future)
  2. Hard limit of ten tasks (with the option to reduce)
  3. Only the very essential configurations available
  • tinkering is a huge time drain for ADHD people
  • because of that, the defaults will have to be extremely sensible.
  1. Started Stopped status clearly marked by character or highlighting

8.1 What you would be able to do with CHORES:

  1. Add up to ten tasks
  2. Reorder/Start/Stop/Done these tasks
  3. Undo only one operation
  4. See only the last ten completed tasks

9. Answer to Possible Questions

9.1 Why Not Keep Using Org Mode? Or maybe Taskwarrior?

Org Mode and Emacs are wonderful tools, but they're also a perfect playground for procrastinators. It simply does too much. Emacs is like a box of legos, and that's the last thing an ADHD person needs when it comes to tracking short-term tasks.

Taskwarrior suffers from the same issue.

9.2 Why Not todo.txt and similar apps?

This may seem crazy, but for a severe ADHD person, even todo.txt gives way too many options and features. It is, after, an actual TODO app. I can add 1000 tasks todo.txt. It has an extensive wiki, projects, tags, context tags, special value tags. You might just say: just don't use these options. But that

9.3 Why not use the extremely minimalist t task manager, by Steve Losh?

I like t very much, and, depending on its license, I'll probably use at least some of its code. But t lacks some features CHORES requires, such as:

  1. Limit task amount
  2. Add tasks to the bottom (t last tasks randomly, or at least something that seem random to me)
  3. Reorder tasks
  4. Undo
  5. Easily view completed tasks
  6. Add Start/Stop status to a task

9.4 Why not pen and paper?

This is a very personal anwer, but here we go:

  1. I will lose the paper every 30 minutes
  2. I will lose the pen every 30 minutes
  3. I will forget to look at the paper, it will probably end up crumpled in my pock
  4. Many of my tasks, such as programming and studying, already happen in the computer anyway
  5. One of my medications interferes with my motor skills and my handwriting is hard to understand - even for me
  6. I like computers. The fact that I like computers makes more likely for me to actually look at the tasks.
  7. In the future, I can add alerts. Can't do that with paper

15 comments

  1. Rocket_Man
    Link
    The app doesn't sound too complicated so I'd encourage it to be built if only so you can have a custom solution. But I do have a question. If existing TODO apps are too detracting, how do you deal...

    The app doesn't sound too complicated so I'd encourage it to be built if only so you can have a custom solution. But I do have a question. If existing TODO apps are too detracting, how do you deal with the distractions of an entire OS?

    5 votes
  2. [5]
    asoftbird
    Link
    This seems very limiting. I'd add ten tasks and forget whatever else I need to do.

    Add up to ten tasks

    This seems very limiting. I'd add ten tasks and forget whatever else I need to do.

    4 votes
    1. [3]
      cfabbro
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      A number of TODO apps take this approach of limiting the items they can track so as not to overwhelm people, which is probably even more of a problem for people with ADHD. One particularly popular...

      A number of TODO apps take this approach of limiting the items they can track so as not to overwhelm people, which is probably even more of a problem for people with ADHD. One particularly popular one on iOS that does this that comes to mind is STREAKS, which only allows 12 tasks to be tracked at once. And if their marketing is to be believed, limitations like that are also supposedly backed up by science to be a generally more effective approach to helping people build good habits and/or break bad ones.

      However, despite that, I also prefer to have less limitations in my TODO app, which is why I personally use Todoist and would highly recommend it. It has the ability to create/schedule tasks and sub-tasks, group them into projects with sections, set specific due dates (e.g. Feb 1st at 9:00am) or recurrences (e.g. 3/day, 1/week on Sundays, every Mon and Fri, etc) on them, set up multiple desktop and mobile notifications based reminders X days/hours/minutes beforehand on each, etc. It's pretty fully featured (the premium version, anyways) and I really like it so far.

      p.s. @mrbig, coincidentally enough, a few weeks ago I downloaded and tried pretty much every TODO app available on iOS (Strides, Habit-Bull, Productive, Streaks, Todoist, TickTick, etc...), so if you want some feature suggestions or have any questions about the "competition" and what they offer in their apps, let me know. :)

      5 votes
      1. [2]
        asoftbird
        Link Parent
        (also RE: @mrbig) I'm already using Todoist (premium) partially because it has no limitations. It's part to-do list, part agenda and part "quick, note this down and set a reminder before I forget...

        (also RE: @mrbig)

        I'm already using Todoist (premium) partially because it has no limitations. It's part to-do list, part agenda and part "quick, note this down and set a reminder before I forget it". It's also multi-platform and I can access it anywhere, not just from pc at home.

        Limitations would almost feel stress-inducing to me; do these tasks first, then think about what comes next. I like planning forward instead of just 10 things a day.
        Not being able to see what comes ahead sometimes gives a ton of stress.

        Also, what if I have more than 10 short term things? We're talking ADHD, so "minor" things like "gather laundry and put in machine/add detergent/dry laundry after washing/putting dry laundry in closet are already at least 4 steps. I have ADHD too and if I don't write these things down and set a reminder I'll just forget to add detergent or leave the laundry in the washing machine for a whole day.
        Then comes showering/brush teeth/set alarm for tomorrow morning/set alarms for meds. That's 8 total. 2 more possible chores.

        Such a limit would only work if it allows a few sub tasks that don't count to the total task limit; do laundry as header; aforementioned steps as subtasks. Main task cannot be completed unless all subtasks are checked, or something like it. Just so you really don't forget to do all of them.

        3 votes
        1. cfabbro
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          LOL, it's funny you should mention that as an example, because my "Do Laundry - 1/week" task on Todoist looks almost exactly like that but with even more steps, with multiple reminders for each,...

          gather laundry and put in machine/add detergent/dry laundry after washing/putting dry laundry in closet ... if I don't write these things down and set a reminder I'll just forget to add detergent or leave the laundry in the washing machine for a whole day.

          LOL, it's funny you should mention that as an example, because my "Do Laundry - 1/week" task on Todoist looks almost exactly like that but with even more steps, with multiple reminders for each, because if I don't include them all I will also often forget simple steps along the way, or intentionally procrastinate about doing them to the point that it becomes a problem. :P

          Not being able to see what comes ahead sometimes gives a ton of stress.

          Ditto. While I may not have ADHD, I do have panic disorder, and so being able to lay out even "mundane" tasks in such a detailed manner way ahead of time on Todoist, with plenty of reminders set for each step along the way, has also really helped me get on top of actually doing them consistently, properly, to completion, and without allowing myself to get overly anxious about it all. And I also don't have to worry endlessly about what I need to do every day anymore thanks to Todoist, because now I can see it all laid out for me in the "Today" section (which I check first thing every morning), and begin working on them in order of priority, one by one, step by step.

          p.s. I also really like the karma system with its daily/weekly goal target setting, streak tracking and statistics display. It's really encouraging to see evidence of my steady improvements already... and that's only after a few weeks of using it too. Here's to hoping I can keep it up! :)

          1 vote
    2. mrbig
      Link Parent
      Thanks for the feedback! Could you please elaborate on how it would be detrimental to your experience?

      Thanks for the feedback!

      Could you please elaborate on how it would be detrimental to your experience?

      1 vote
  3. [4]
    Liru
    Link
    I think I may work on something like this since I'm bored. Some design considerations and questions: Let's say a user has 10 items and wants to add another one. What should happen? I'd imagine...

    I think I may work on something like this since I'm bored.

    Some design considerations and questions:

    1. Let's say a user has 10 items and wants to add another one. What should happen? I'd imagine either getting a message saying that their list is full, or bumping off one item in the list to make room for it, but each has its pros and cons.

    2. How easy should reordering be? I'd imagine it'd be a bit distracting for someone with ADHD to be able to arbitrarily reorder tasks.

    1 vote
    1. [3]
      mrbig
      Link Parent
      To tasks is a ultra-hard limit. The only way to increase this limit would be to mess with the actual code - and I don't plan to make that easy. Reordering could certainly be a problem, and there...
      1. To tasks is a ultra-hard limit. The only way to increase this limit would be to mess with the actual code - and I don't plan to make that easy.

      2. Reordering could certainly be a problem, and there must be some kind of limitation on that. Maybe you could perform three reorder operations after each DONE task. No undo. What you think?

      1. [2]
        Liru
        Link Parent
        Yes, I assumed that there would be a hard limit, but what should happen if a user tries to add something beyond this limit? If something is automatically removed to make room for the new task, it...

        To tasks is a ultra-hard limit. The only way to increase this limit would be to mess with the actual code - and I don't plan to make that easy.

        Yes, I assumed that there would be a hard limit, but what should happen if a user tries to add something beyond this limit? If something is automatically removed to make room for the new task, it could be a problem, but giving an error saying "hard limit reached" could cause a user to go through each of their tasks to figure out which one to dump, which could present an issue of some sort.

        Reordering could certainly be a problem, and there must be some kind of limitation on that. Maybe you could perform three reorder operations after each DONE task. No undo. What you think?

        I'd guess that the best thing to do would be to only make something moveable when it's added to the list. Once something else is done, such as starting/stopping a task, its place is frozen in the list until it's completed.

        1 vote
        1. mrbig
          Link Parent
          The add command won't work, you'll get a message stating the limit and will be given the option to complete another task and insert the new one. There will be also an undo command, in case you...

          Yes, I assumed that there would be a hard limit, but what should happen if a user tries to add something beyond this limit?

          The add command won't work, you'll get a message stating the limit and will be given the option to complete another task and insert the new one. There will be also an undo command, in case you mess up (remove the wrong task, or remove a task when you wanted to cancel).

          I'd guess that the best thing to do would be to only make something moveable when it's added to the list.

          That is also a very good option. Thank you for the suggestion.

          1 vote
  4. [4]
    JeanBaptisteDuToitIV
    Link
    Sorry for being off topic, but what is the point of using both vim and emacs?

    Sorry for being off topic, but what is the point of using both vim and emacs?

    2 votes
    1. Przmk
      Link Parent
      I am a vim user and I've been wanting to try org-mode for a long time now. I've looked at some vim implementations of it but they're often incomplete hence using emacs might be a good idea for...

      I am a vim user and I've been wanting to try org-mode for a long time now. I've looked at some vim implementations of it but they're often incomplete hence using emacs might be a good idea for this particular case.

      2 votes
    2. mrbig
      Link Parent
      My other answer was too simplistic. I actually wrote an article a year ago that answer your question in long-form, among other things.

      My other answer was too simplistic. I actually wrote an article a year ago that answer your question in long-form, among other things.

      2 votes
    3. mrbig
      Link Parent
      Vim works flawlessly in the command line. Emacs works well in the command line. That's the difference.

      Vim works flawlessly in the command line. Emacs works well in the command line.

      That's the difference.

  5. starchturrets
    Link
    This sounds like it would be fun to build.

    This sounds like it would be fun to build.

    2 votes