11 votes

Google submits plans to build 7,000 homes in North Bayshore, the largest project in city's history

29 comments

  1. [15]
    bloup
    Link
    Didn't we decide a long time ago that company towns are definitely a bad idea?

    Didn't we decide a long time ago that company towns are definitely a bad idea?

    15 votes
    1. [14]
      RapidEyeMovement
      Link Parent
      This is definitely "I've seen this one before" meme territory. And then this just came across my feed.

      This is definitely "I've seen this one before" meme territory.

      And then this just came across my feed.

      "The zones would permit companies with large areas of land to form governments carrying the same authority as counties, including the ability to impose taxes, form school districts and courts and provide government services."
      [1]

      12 votes
      1. [13]
        spctrvl
        Link Parent
        That sounds like a fragment of backstory you'd dig up in some dystopian cyberpunk setting. Not that that doesn't well describe much of our history for the last few decades.

        That sounds like a fragment of backstory you'd dig up in some dystopian cyberpunk setting. Not that that doesn't well describe much of our history for the last few decades.

        8 votes
        1. [3]
          SunSpotter
          Link Parent
          Now that you mention it, it does sound pretty similar to something you'd read in a Fallout terminal. All it's missing is a few follow up entries talking about how the company used its autonomy to...

          Now that you mention it, it does sound pretty similar to something you'd read in a Fallout terminal. All it's missing is a few follow up entries talking about how the company used its autonomy to pollute the land and poison its residents because it just waived away environmental and food safety laws.

          1 vote
          1. skybrian
            Link Parent
            That part of Mountain View used to be a landfill, including Google's main headquarters (formerly SGI headquarters). So ironically it's sort of the opposite of that. Here's a bit of history. Google...

            That part of Mountain View used to be a landfill, including Google's main headquarters (formerly SGI headquarters). So ironically it's sort of the opposite of that. Here's a bit of history. Google also is pretty serious about indoor air quality in its buildings - or at least they said they were.

            Silicon Valley has lots of superfund sites from the old days when there was more electronics manufacturing. These days with software companies, not so much.

            4 votes
          2. spctrvl
            Link Parent
            I was thinking more shadowrun than fallout.

            I was thinking more shadowrun than fallout.

        2. [9]
          RapidEyeMovement
          Link Parent
          I was going to make a joke about people being paid in company script[1] next, and then I had to stop myself because they already do that. That is literally what Company Stock Options are designed...

          I was going to make a joke about people being paid in company script[1] next, and then I had to stop myself because they already do that. That is literally what Company Stock Options are designed to be.

          2 votes
          1. [3]
            joplin
            Link Parent
            Those aren't the same at all. If I'm given stock from the company I work for (or the option to buy it at a particular price), I can take it to the open market and sell it for market value. That's...

            That is literally what Company Stock Options are designed to be.

            Those aren't the same at all. If I'm given stock from the company I work for (or the option to buy it at a particular price), I can take it to the open market and sell it for market value. That's very different from company scrip, which can only be used at the company store. From your linked article:

            Company scrip is scrip (a substitute for government-issued legal tender or currency) issued by a company to pay its employees. It can only be exchanged in company stores owned by the employers.

            You can sell your stock to pay taxes, buy food, lodging, clothing, etc. anywhere. Not so with company scrip.

            15 votes
            1. [2]
              RapidEyeMovement
              (edited )
              Link Parent
              It is the company trading on its name instead of giving you cash, there were exchanges back in the day were you could change your company script for usd. A RSU is something that the company...

              It is the company trading on its name instead of giving you cash, there were exchanges back in the day were you could change your company script for usd.

              A RSU is something that the company creates out of thin air. It isn't going to the market to get that stock it is giving you.

              1. papasquat
                Link Parent
                So is a USD. Regardless, both of those things have tangible value and are very liquid once the RSU is vested.

                A RSU is something that the company creates out of thin air.

                So is a USD. Regardless, both of those things have tangible value and are very liquid once the RSU is vested.

                1 vote
          2. [5]
            stu2b50
            Link Parent
            That doesn't make any sense. You don't go to Google with your Google RSUs to buy goods and services. You liquidate it on the public markets. Not offering stock except for c-suites, or sometimes...

            That doesn't make any sense. You don't go to Google with your Google RSUs to buy goods and services. You liquidate it on the public markets.

            Not offering stock except for c-suites, or sometimes nothing less but a partner, is a common complaint of traditional company compensation plans.

            It is in Google's interest, google's executives (whose pay is also heavily stock based), and google's shareholders (who by definition own stock) that Google's stock goes up on the public market.

            10 votes
            1. [4]
              RapidEyeMovement
              Link Parent
              Google literally creates the shares out of thin air. It is not going to the marker to buy the stock. It just issues more stock with the stroke of a pen.

              Google literally creates the shares out of thin air. It is not going to the marker to buy the stock. It just issues more stock with the stroke of a pen.

              1. [3]
                stu2b50
                Link Parent
                But the point is that you liquidate it on the public markets. Company scrip is bad, because the point is that it gives the company a monopoly on all the economic activity of that scrip. You can...

                But the point is that you liquidate it on the public markets. Company scrip is bad, because the point is that it gives the company a monopoly on all the economic activity of that scrip. You can jack up the price of soap, or water, or do the reverse, etc. None of that happens with RSUs. You buy things from any retailer you want with good ol' USD.

                It does dilute the pool of shares, but that's why the companies do the ever-talked about stock-buybacks, limiting the supply of Google stocks for the benefit of their shareholders, who again, derive their wealth from their stock.

                And, of course, Google has no incentive to tank their own stock prices. Rather, it's the opposite.

                Companies giving their employees equity should be encouraged.

                7 votes
                1. [2]
                  RapidEyeMovement
                  Link Parent
                  So if company didn't jack up the price of soap and etc, would it be okay for them issuing company script? There were plenty of companies that issued company script back in the day, that didn't...

                  Company scrip is bad, because the point is that it gives the company a monopoly on all the economic activity of that scrip. You can jack up the price of soap, or water, or do the reverse, etc.

                  So if company didn't jack up the price of soap and etc, would it be okay for them issuing company script? There were plenty of companies that issued company script back in the day, that didn't abuse the system. But used it as a way to keep the company liquid. Even then I would be still against the practice because it locks the employee into that system.

                  But like company script you are locked in with RSU, because you only have access to that liquidity after certain milestones. And when more then half of an employee salary comes from RSU something doesn't seem right?
                  .

                  1. stu2b50
                    Link Parent
                    Etc means more. It also gives the company the power to dictate which products are bought, at what supply, and yes, limits the employees liquidity. If by milestones, you mean time, then sure, but...

                    So if company didn't jack up the price of soap and etc, would it be okay for them issuing company script?

                    Etc means more. It also gives the company the power to dictate which products are bought, at what supply, and yes, limits the employees liquidity.

                    But like company script you are locked in with RSU, because you only have access to that liquidity after certain milestones.

                    If by milestones, you mean time, then sure, but that's also how your paycheck works? At Google, RSUs vest linearly on a yearly basis. It's really no different than a bonus at the end, especially since you can turn on autosell in the broker they use for internal shares. It's not like you don't get the shares if the company does poorly. And that's also has nothing to do with how company scrip worked.

                    And why doesn't it seem right? Perhaps if it was half stock when the TC is 80k, but it's half when the TC is split as $180k/4180k RSUs. Google employees have no issue with liquidity in their day-to-days, and also reap the benefits of capital growth in Google.

                    Many executives are paid entirely in stock.

                    What is the negative theory here?

                    4 votes
  2. [6]
    vaddi
    Link
    Some months ago I wrote this comment here on tildes that I'm going to paste below: Could this be the first step towards this goal?

    Some months ago I wrote this comment here on tildes that I'm going to paste below:

    I also have a theory, that some years from now (decades to be more precise) this companies are going to grow so large, that consumers are going to buy "Apple houses" or "Amazon houses", where everything inside is highly integrated with those companies' proprietary networks. Their interest for automobiles was the first step.

    Could this be the first step towards this goal?

    7 votes
    1. [2]
      Eabryt
      Link Parent
      I've never wanted anything less. I already have plenty of Google Products in the house, not sure I need more.

      I've never wanted anything less.

      I already have plenty of Google Products in the house, not sure I need more.

      7 votes
      1. elcuello
        Link Parent
        Get rid of them. Start the cleanse today...It's a good feeling.

        Get rid of them. Start the cleanse today...It's a good feeling.

        1 vote
    2. [3]
      skybrian
      Link Parent
      I think these are going to be pretty standard apartments.

      I think these are going to be pretty standard apartments.

      2 votes
      1. [2]
        vaddi
        Link Parent
        Yeah I know. But might also be an experiment to see if they can enter into the housing business, and then build from this towards the goal that I described.

        Yeah I know. But might also be an experiment to see if they can enter into the housing business, and then build from this towards the goal that I described.

        2 votes
        1. rosco
          Link Parent
          Look up Sidewalk Labs. Google is already deep in that field.

          Look up Sidewalk Labs. Google is already deep in that field.

          1 vote
  3. [7]
    stu2b50
    Link
    Good on Google. People have been asking for them to do this for a while. As Google exploded in growth, they brought to MTV tens of thousands of 300k+ earners which caused a number of side effects...

    Good on Google. People have been asking for them to do this for a while. As Google exploded in growth, they brought to MTV tens of thousands of 300k+ earners which caused a number of side effects in the town, jacking up rent prices by a massive amount, causing undue stress on public resources, etc. It should be good for googlers and good for everyone else in Mountainview.

    Just a good thing for Google to do for the community their headquarter sits in if they're going to continue and expand.

    7 votes
    1. [5]
      rosco
      Link Parent
      Eh... I find this a little disingenuous. Unreasonable housing prices require higher wages so it seems self serving to me. I was born and raised in Mountain View, Google has really only forwarded...

      Eh... I find this a little disingenuous. Unreasonable housing prices require higher wages so it seems self serving to me. I was born and raised in Mountain View, Google has really only forwarded agendas that help their bottom line. I have a hard time believing that this is "good for the community".

      6 votes
      1. [3]
        skybrian
        Link Parent
        Yes, there is certainly self-interest involved. For one thing, Google was running up against limits on traffic in that area. But it can be out of self-interest and also a good thing. This is all...

        Yes, there is certainly self-interest involved. For one thing, Google was running up against limits on traffic in that area. But it can be out of self-interest and also a good thing.

        This is all based on negotiations with the city, much like when any other large developer wants to build something.

        3 votes
        1. [2]
          rosco
          Link Parent
          Right, but if they are causing the issues I'm not sure I would lump this into the "greater good" category. It still seems like Google considerable strain on the system and supporting development...

          Right, but if they are causing the issues I'm not sure I would lump this into the "greater good" category. It still seems like Google considerable strain on the system and supporting development that is targeted specifically to Google employees and reducing their own expenditure. They will make revenue on the development and sales of new apartments, justify lower wages because of increased "low income" housing, while putting the onus of infrastructure development for the additional 9,000 residents on the City of MV, and continue to displace low income families. Praise our generous overlords!

          1. skybrian
            Link Parent
            I don't know about other strains on the system, but if we're talking money, Mountain View will be getting more revenue from the property taxes on these new buildings. I would guess this more than...

            I don't know about other strains on the system, but if we're talking money, Mountain View will be getting more revenue from the property taxes on these new buildings. I would guess this more than pays for itself, from the city budgeting point of view? It's stable income, too.

            It seems Mountain View is running a $1.5 million deficit due to the pandemic:

            The latest update shows Mountain View's general fund revenue sinking to $140.5 million, about $3.7 million lower than anticipated. The budget was premised on the idea that the shelter-in-place orders -- which have crippled the economy -- would end in June 2020. Some public health restrictions have been lifted since then, but a surge in winter cases forced another regional shutdown in the Bay Area that ended on Jan. 25.

            Sales taxes are projected to decline to $18.9 million for the 2020-21 fiscal year, worse than previously thought and far below the $22.6 million that was anticipated prior to the pandemic. Taking the biggest hit is the city's hotel tax, which is now expected to generate $1.4 million -- less than one-fifth the revenue projected prior to the pandemic.

            The bright spot is property taxes, which have been robust and exceeded expectations at $58.4 million.

            [...]

            Though anything but good news, the budget shows that Mountain View is faring better than others. The city was able to balance the 2019-20 budget without deep cuts to services -- unlike the $40 million deficit faced by the city of Palo Alto -- and has yet to go on a firing spree in order to stave off deficit spending.

            Also, in 2020 Mountain View started getting revenue from an employee head tax.

            It seems like they will be in good shape after the pandemic.

            2 votes
      2. elcuello
        Link Parent
        Yeah, I don't trust this at all. I refuse to believe big corporations think of anyone but themselves no matter how much good "collateral damage" that comes a long.

        Yeah, I don't trust this at all. I refuse to believe big corporations think of anyone but themselves no matter how much good "collateral damage" that comes a long.

        2 votes
    2. skybrian
      Link Parent
      This is just one milestone in a change that's been years in the making. An important previous milestone was when some pro-housing candidates were elected to the Mountain View city council in 2014.

      This is just one milestone in a change that's been years in the making. An important previous milestone was when some pro-housing candidates were elected to the Mountain View city council in 2014.

      1 vote
  4. [2]
    Comment deleted by author
    Link
    1. skybrian
      Link Parent
      I think you're misinterpreting it in this case. Google runs its own bus system too for employees, but that doesn't mean they want to compete with Greyhound or city busses. This is aimed pretty...

      I think you're misinterpreting it in this case. Google runs its own bus system too for employees, but that doesn't mean they want to compete with Greyhound or city busses.

      This is aimed pretty squarely at making the specific area around Google headquarters more attractive for employees. (Not that it's just for employees, but these apartments will be most attractive to them.)

      Google's real estate operations are already pretty extensive, just from buying and building office space in major cities all over the world for their own use. Since existing office buildings already have long-term tenants, they end up paying Google rent until eventually they move out.

      7 votes