Wild thought: Ban all plastics for packaging consumer goods unless there is a demonstratable health or safety reason to keep them. There are sooo many products where the plastic packaging weighs...
Wild thought: Ban all plastics for packaging consumer goods unless there is a demonstratable health or safety reason to keep them.
There are sooo many products where the plastic packaging weighs more than the product itself. SD cards come to mind as a particularily egrarious offender.
Honestly I would be okay with that. There are things that need to be sold in single use plastics, but those are few and far between. For example, most cleaning chemicals would be far safer in...
Honestly I would be okay with that. There are things that need to be sold in single use plastics, but those are few and far between. For example, most cleaning chemicals would be far safer in plastic because it is chemically inert. But almost everything else would be just fine in paper, cardboard, or something else.
Plastic doesn't actually seem that chemically inert. I feel like glass is much better for that use case, also way better for the environment. There is a safety/cost consideration though.
Plastic doesn't actually seem that chemically inert. I feel like glass is much better for that use case, also way better for the environment. There is a safety/cost consideration though.
Another part of that consideration is weight. With the world economy being global, adding more weight can have a much bigger impact on an item’s carbon footprint than one might expect. This is the...
Another part of that consideration is weight. With the world economy being global, adding more weight can have a much bigger impact on an item’s carbon footprint than one might expect.
This is the exact issue playing out in the wine industry right now. Wine is traditionally sold in glass, and glass is infinitely recyclable. Consumers like larger and heavier bottles. But that is a much higher cost, both financially and environmentally. Large wineries have been able to use slightly thinner glass and save a HUGE portion of their carbon footprint. Switching to another storage medium, even if worse on the individual level, may actually be better for the environment at scale.
For example, one of the alternatives is plastic bag in a cardboard box. (This has branding issues, but let’s ignore that for now.) If we switch to this, we have some plastic waste where there was none previously. But we also save a bunch of emissions at every step of the supply chain. If our product is going overseas, the emission savings will be even higher. There are also savings of volume. In a box, the liquid can tessellate perfectly into a palate. A bottle leaves a bunch of empty space. Most of the time liquids are weight limited, not space limited, but it is still possible for this to make a difference. For example, let’s take an entire truck load of wine in bottles. If we repackage it in bag in box, maybe the same weight of wine takes up half a truck load. We can’t double the wine on the truck because we are at the weight limit, but maybe we can fill the rest with palates of toilet paper or something else light. We just took half a truck off of the road. That leaves us with the question: what is worse for the environment, a small bit of plastic waste, or a bunch of co2 emissions? I don’t have the answer to this. It is just important to remember that you have to calculate things at scale. Scale changes everything.
FYI there are other solutions to wine other than bag in box. Suck as kegs for restaurants and wine bars, or cans. Those both have much lower weight per volume contained.
I would be okay with that if and only if the municipal recycling service was required to recycle that type of plastic. But I would like to legislate that too.
I would be okay with that if and only if the municipal recycling service was required to recycle that type of plastic. But I would like to legislate that too.
And in India: India bans single-use plastic to combat pollution https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/07/01/india/india-bans-single-use-plastic-intl-hnk/index.html
This is a very positive development. I'd like to see a program that subsidizes compostable and perfectly recyclable (glass or aluminum) packaging — though I'm aware there is potential for fraud....
This is a very positive development.
I'd like to see a program that subsidizes compostable and perfectly recyclable (glass or aluminum) packaging — though I'm aware there is potential for fraud.
Anyway, California is a huge market, so any initiative to curb single-use plastic packaging would help next-generation green packaging companies get more business, scale up, achieve manufacturing efficiencies, and make their products more price-competitive on the broader market.
I'd love to see a day when plastic packaging will be as hard to find as fluorescent lightbulbs, and future generations will take biodegradable packaging for granted as a fact of life.
I don't know how equivalent the laws are, but a ban is also on the way in Canada, which is another similarly sized market. In my small town we have an excellent curbside recycling and compost...
I don't know how equivalent the laws are, but a ban is also on the way in Canada, which is another similarly sized market.
In my small town we have an excellent curbside recycling and compost program as well as additional drop-off recycling for soft plastics for quite a while now, and we have massively reduced our landfill waste since moving here. I bought a standard large garbage bin because that's what we've always used and even though it's only picked up every two weeks we could honestly put out less than a kitchen sized bin for our family.
Anyways, a lot of the recycled hard and soft plastic is now starting to make it's way into asphalt. I wonder what happens to the supply of used plastic now, and what sort of green investments/R&D in plastic roads still need to be recouped. Not that this is by any means a bad thing, it will definitely be more effective at reducing waste than the efficiency of a voluntary recycling program, but something interesting to consider.
Recycling isn't that great of a solution for plastics honestly. Plastic took off in the first place in part because it's so cheap to manufacture. That means that it rarely makes sense to do...
Recycling isn't that great of a solution for plastics honestly. Plastic took off in the first place in part because it's so cheap to manufacture. That means that it rarely makes sense to do financially without massive subsidies. It also slowly breaks down, leeching chemicals into its environment for years versus something like metal or glass or paper, which will just either oxidize into naturally occurring substances, erode away into naturally occurring substances, or be broken down by microbes into naturally occurring substances. We're way better off just eliminating plastic everywhere where another material would be completely impractical.
Plastic is a really wonderful material in reality. Its easily moldable, it can be easily sterilized, its light weight, it can be incredibly strong, it can be as ductile or brittle as you need it...
Plastic is a really wonderful material in reality. Its easily moldable, it can be easily sterilized, its light weight, it can be incredibly strong, it can be as ductile or brittle as you need it to be, it can take on any color you want, including none (transparent), it can be spun into fiber, or expanded into a fantastic insulator, it can be made water, air, dust, and bulletproof.
The problem is that because it's so cheap, its used for everything. I don't think a blanket ban makes sense, because there are things plastics can do which literally no other material can. Its saved lives by being made into amazing medical and safety devices. The places where it should be banned are the places where less environmentally harmful but equally adequate solutions exist. Single use packaging and consumer goods are some of the biggest offenders there. There's no great reason why chairs need to be made out of plastic, besides cost.
Yeah, a lot of "single use" plastics are used in medicine, so I'm always a little wary when people start talking about banning all plastic. I'm sure most people would say "but that's an...
Yeah, a lot of "single use" plastics are used in medicine, so I'm always a little wary when people start talking about banning all plastic. I'm sure most people would say "but that's an exception," but even straw bans have negatively impacted disabled folks who need them to drink. (Also, while a lot of chairs don't need to be plastic, I'd rather my shower chair be, to make it lighter and easier to clean.)
Wild thought: Ban all plastics for packaging consumer goods unless there is a demonstratable health or safety reason to keep them.
There are sooo many products where the plastic packaging weighs more than the product itself. SD cards come to mind as a particularily egrarious offender.
Honestly I would be okay with that. There are things that need to be sold in single use plastics, but those are few and far between. For example, most cleaning chemicals would be far safer in plastic because it is chemically inert. But almost everything else would be just fine in paper, cardboard, or something else.
Plastic doesn't actually seem that chemically inert. I feel like glass is much better for that use case, also way better for the environment. There is a safety/cost consideration though.
Another part of that consideration is weight. With the world economy being global, adding more weight can have a much bigger impact on an item’s carbon footprint than one might expect.
This is the exact issue playing out in the wine industry right now. Wine is traditionally sold in glass, and glass is infinitely recyclable. Consumers like larger and heavier bottles. But that is a much higher cost, both financially and environmentally. Large wineries have been able to use slightly thinner glass and save a HUGE portion of their carbon footprint. Switching to another storage medium, even if worse on the individual level, may actually be better for the environment at scale.
For example, one of the alternatives is plastic bag in a cardboard box. (This has branding issues, but let’s ignore that for now.) If we switch to this, we have some plastic waste where there was none previously. But we also save a bunch of emissions at every step of the supply chain. If our product is going overseas, the emission savings will be even higher. There are also savings of volume. In a box, the liquid can tessellate perfectly into a palate. A bottle leaves a bunch of empty space. Most of the time liquids are weight limited, not space limited, but it is still possible for this to make a difference. For example, let’s take an entire truck load of wine in bottles. If we repackage it in bag in box, maybe the same weight of wine takes up half a truck load. We can’t double the wine on the truck because we are at the weight limit, but maybe we can fill the rest with palates of toilet paper or something else light. We just took half a truck off of the road. That leaves us with the question: what is worse for the environment, a small bit of plastic waste, or a bunch of co2 emissions? I don’t have the answer to this. It is just important to remember that you have to calculate things at scale. Scale changes everything.
FYI there are other solutions to wine other than bag in box. Suck as kegs for restaurants and wine bars, or cans. Those both have much lower weight per volume contained.
Don’t let perfect be the enemy of improvement.
Always think at scale.
Could even those be in packages designed to be returned for reuse or recycling, and therefore not technically not single use?
I would be okay with that if and only if the municipal recycling service was required to recycle that type of plastic. But I would like to legislate that too.
And in India:
India bans single-use plastic to combat pollution
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/07/01/india/india-bans-single-use-plastic-intl-hnk/index.html
https://tildes.net/~enviro/11u1/india_bans_single_use_plastic_to_combat_pollution ;)
:) I missed that one.
This is a very positive development.
I'd like to see a program that subsidizes compostable and perfectly recyclable (glass or aluminum) packaging — though I'm aware there is potential for fraud.
Anyway, California is a huge market, so any initiative to curb single-use plastic packaging would help next-generation green packaging companies get more business, scale up, achieve manufacturing efficiencies, and make their products more price-competitive on the broader market.
I'd love to see a day when plastic packaging will be as hard to find as fluorescent lightbulbs, and future generations will take biodegradable packaging for granted as a fact of life.
Surely you meant incandescent?
You're right. It's been so long since I've seen one being sold that I forgot their exact name.
I don't know how equivalent the laws are, but a ban is also on the way in Canada, which is another similarly sized market.
In my small town we have an excellent curbside recycling and compost program as well as additional drop-off recycling for soft plastics for quite a while now, and we have massively reduced our landfill waste since moving here. I bought a standard large garbage bin because that's what we've always used and even though it's only picked up every two weeks we could honestly put out less than a kitchen sized bin for our family.
Anyways, a lot of the recycled hard and soft plastic is now starting to make it's way into asphalt. I wonder what happens to the supply of used plastic now, and what sort of green investments/R&D in plastic roads still need to be recouped. Not that this is by any means a bad thing, it will definitely be more effective at reducing waste than the efficiency of a voluntary recycling program, but something interesting to consider.
Recycling isn't that great of a solution for plastics honestly. Plastic took off in the first place in part because it's so cheap to manufacture. That means that it rarely makes sense to do financially without massive subsidies. It also slowly breaks down, leeching chemicals into its environment for years versus something like metal or glass or paper, which will just either oxidize into naturally occurring substances, erode away into naturally occurring substances, or be broken down by microbes into naturally occurring substances. We're way better off just eliminating plastic everywhere where another material would be completely impractical.
Banning plastic, and most other petroleum products, should be a goal of this century.
Plastic is a really wonderful material in reality. Its easily moldable, it can be easily sterilized, its light weight, it can be incredibly strong, it can be as ductile or brittle as you need it to be, it can take on any color you want, including none (transparent), it can be spun into fiber, or expanded into a fantastic insulator, it can be made water, air, dust, and bulletproof.
The problem is that because it's so cheap, its used for everything. I don't think a blanket ban makes sense, because there are things plastics can do which literally no other material can. Its saved lives by being made into amazing medical and safety devices. The places where it should be banned are the places where less environmentally harmful but equally adequate solutions exist. Single use packaging and consumer goods are some of the biggest offenders there. There's no great reason why chairs need to be made out of plastic, besides cost.
Yeah, a lot of "single use" plastics are used in medicine, so I'm always a little wary when people start talking about banning all plastic. I'm sure most people would say "but that's an exception," but even straw bans have negatively impacted disabled folks who need them to drink. (Also, while a lot of chairs don't need to be plastic, I'd rather my shower chair be, to make it lighter and easier to clean.)