27 votes

Huge power cut causes chaos in Spain and Portugal as Madrid mayor warns people to stay put

Posted by pete_the_paper_boat
Tags: energy, spain.madrid, portugal, france, infrastructure, blackouts, electricity, politics, government.local, mayors, cities.capital, source.bbc, short read
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/c9wpq8xrvd9t

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Title
Reports of widespread power cuts in Spain and Portugal
Word count
137 words

8 comments

  1. [4]
    fefellama
    Link
    Hmmm the plot thickens: I'm definitely not well-versed enough with high-voltage electrical lines or atmospheric oscillations(?) to understand how plausible that explanation is. Anyone here happen...

    Hmmm the plot thickens:

    We have a bit more for you now from the Portuguese energy company REN (Rede Eletrica Nacional).

    It says that "due to extreme temperature variations in the interior or Spain, there were anomalous oscillations in the very high voltage lines (400 KV), a phenomenon known as 'induced atmospheric vibration'".

    "These oscillations caused synchronisation failures between the electrical systems, leading to successive disturbances across the interconnected European network."

    I'm definitely not well-versed enough with high-voltage electrical lines or atmospheric oscillations(?) to understand how plausible that explanation is. Anyone here happen to be an expert on that?

    Portugal seems to be blaming it on Spain and saying it wasn't a cyber attack.

    If that is indeed true, and not some political deflection, then I'm curious to learn more about these sorts of events. With the world getting warmer, will events like this become more common around the globe, or was it just some freak phenomenon?

    7 votes
    1. [3]
      pete_the_paper_boat
      Link Parent
      I'm not an expert, but Spain has a very diverse climate, so that may be a factor. It was also not particularly hot, it can certainly be much hotter there. If weather is globally becoming more...

      I'm not an expert, but Spain has a very diverse climate, so that may be a factor. It was also not particularly hot, it can certainly be much hotter there.

      If weather is globally becoming more extreme, I suppose it increases the likelihood of 'freak weather events'. Though it seems pretty exceptional.

      Though I too, do find "induced oscillations", to be pretty vague. I can't tell if they're just saying it was windy or not lol

      4 votes
      1. Raspcoffee
        Link Parent
        Well, I suppose that a big temperature gradient may cause issues as it changes conductivity a lot. But for it to cause something this extreme sounds, well, extreme. We'll probably only get the...

        Well, I suppose that a big temperature gradient may cause issues as it changes conductivity a lot. But for it to cause something this extreme sounds, well, extreme. We'll probably only get the gist of it in a few days though.

        3 votes
      2. Slystuff
        Link Parent
        I'd hazard a guess and say that it's in relation to the grid frequency?

        Though I too, do find "induced oscillations", to be pretty vague. I can't tell if they're just saying it was windy or not lol

        I'd hazard a guess and say that it's in relation to the grid frequency?

        3 votes
  2. [4]
    pete_the_paper_boat
    (edited )
    Link
    If this isn't software related, this seems like a very significant failure of infrastructure? According to Forbes a Portuguese cabinet member has said Cyber attacks have not yet been ruled out,...

    Andorra and parts of France were also hit - although the Balearic and Canary Islands seem not to have been affected.

    If this isn't software related, this seems like a very significant failure of infrastructure?

    According to Forbes a Portuguese cabinet member has said Cyber attacks have not yet been ruled out, and an investigation by a Spain's National Cybersecurity Institute allegedly ongoing.

    Edit; also feel free to make the title less sensational, I just took it from BBC's live blog.

    6 votes
    1. pete_the_paper_boat
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      Personally, I find it far more likely grid frequency could not be sustained in Spain, and infrastructure shut down en masse, which would hit particularly hard for Portugal as I can't imagine it...

      Personally, I find it far more likely grid frequency could not be sustained in Spain, and infrastructure shut down en masse, which would hit particularly hard for Portugal as I can't imagine it shares it's grid with anyone else.

      But there really shouldn't be any sort of failure that takes out an entire national grid...?

      12 votes
    2. TheMediumJon
      Link Parent
      I mean, Fwiw AP supposedly has the Portuguese cyber center authority whatever not explicitly denying the possibility of it being a cyber incident but stating that there's no indication thereof:...

      I mean, Fwiw AP supposedly has the Portuguese cyber center authority whatever not explicitly denying the possibility of it being a cyber incident but stating that there's no indication thereof:

      The company declined to speculate on the causes of the blackout. The Portuguese National Cybersecurity Center issued a statement saying there was no sign the outage was due to a cyberattack.

      And I mean, could be an actual software issue without cyber, if it is software.

      7 votes
    3. Eji1700
      Link Parent
      My money is on cyber attack. However the question then becomes “top of the line state sponsored entity” or “crypto locker automated script that hit them because they’re on ancient tech”

      My money is on cyber attack.

      However the question then becomes “top of the line state sponsored entity” or “crypto locker automated script that hit them because they’re on ancient tech”

      7 votes