I take issue with framing it as though the dilemma is new and because nobody will take our plastic. The dilemma continues to be in unsustainable levels of use of plastic.
I take issue with framing it as though the dilemma is new and because nobody will take our plastic. The dilemma continues to be in unsustainable levels of use of plastic.
Malaysia has banned plastic waste imports from the U.S. starting Tuesday because of America’s failure to abide by the Basel Convention treaty on international waste transfers, in a move that could have significant consequences for California.
Malaysia emerged as a major destination for U.S. waste after China banned American waste imports in 2018. California shipped 864 shipping containers, or more than 10 million pounds of plastic waste, to Malaysia in 2024, according to the Basel Action Network, an advocacy group. That was second only to Georgia among U.S. states.
...
In 2022, Gov. Gavin Newsom signed Senate Bill 54, a landmark plastic law that is designed to establish a circular economy for single-use plastic products and packaging. The law addresses the export of plastic waste and requires product manufacturers to certify that their products are being recycled or composted in ways that reduce environmental pollution and minimize health effects for people who live near where the product is sent.
CalRecycle is currently working on drafting regulations that will enable the implementation of the law, but West, the agency’s spokeswoman, said the law requires that for any material to be considered recycled, it “must go to responsible end markets, ensuring material actually gets recycled instead of becoming waste in landfills or the environment.”
Correct me if I'm wrong, but recycling plastic is quite horrible still and we're just pretending the problem doesn't exist by shipping it to poor countries right? I always wonder if putting...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but recycling plastic is quite horrible still and we're just pretending the problem doesn't exist by shipping it to poor countries right? I always wonder if putting plastic in the recycling bin is actually a net positive or if it's performative theater.
Putting it in the recycling bin vs throwing it in the landfill is almost certainly a net positive. Using plastic vs another container is likely a net negative. Beverage bottles are almost always...
Putting it in the recycling bin vs throwing it in the landfill is almost certainly a net positive. Using plastic vs another container is likely a net negative.
Beverage bottles are almost always PET, which is a decently recyclable plastic. Not the best, but far from the worst.
Is it though? 95% of it ends up in a landfill, or similar, anyway. If some of it is shipped to asia that adds an extra carbon footprint before it ends up in a landfill. In that instance it would...
Is it though? 95% of it ends up in a landfill, or similar, anyway. If some of it is shipped to asia that adds an extra carbon footprint before it ends up in a landfill. In that instance it would seem to be a net negative.
I want to say, none of the rest of this post is really directed at you @weldawadyathink, rather at one of the most evil industries in human history. If I have any issue with you personally, it's that your username is so damn hard to type correctly.
According to this NPR article soda bottles usually don't meet the requirements for being recycleable.
And according to an industry trade group only about 20% of PET beverage containers are recycled. So cut that number in half and it's probably still an overestimation.
At best, recycling is a social statement. It says we give a shit about this stuff, and that does have value. But I think we should be ruthlessly honest about the situation so that we're ready to support anti-plastic initiatives when they're proposed. Because using less plastic is the only realistic solution. Recycling isn't now, and will likely never be, anything other than a psychological coping mechanism for consumers. It's tough to swallow, because recycling feels good, but it's objectively true.
Which is why we should always remind each other, in these sorts of conversations, that plastic recycling was thought up, marketed, funded and continues to be perpetuated by the petrocarbon industry as a way to combat negative public perception of plastics.
Plastics are the oil industry's cynical way of growing demand despite climate change action and they're going to continue to throw huge amounts of capital at increasing production and use of plastics while fighting negative perception. That includes funding disingenuous science, paying for authoritative seeming articles in reputable publications and discrediting legitimate concerns. Not to mention outright lying.
Its mostly performance theatre to ease our minds in the moment. The way in see it is its only slightly better that just throwing it on the ground. Ideally we would just use less plastic. If I...
Its mostly performance theatre to ease our minds in the moment. The way in see it is its only slightly better that just throwing it on the ground. Ideally we would just use less plastic. If I could afford to refill mason jars then I would but alas that is a bit out of my price range.
Its a bit late for this kinda reading but according to the article we are creating 450 million tons of new plastic a year so ya know keep up that recycling or take the hit and buy less plastic goods.
Yea basically what Sodliddesu said. As much as I'd rather refill containers from a shop its not super economically viable for me right now. In fact I used to do it for some things and I might even...
Yea basically what Sodliddesu said. As much as I'd rather refill containers from a shop its not super economically viable for me right now.
In fact I used to do it for some things and I might even go back to it but I gotta figure out my finances first and possibly change my eating habits.
The fancy grocers are the ones with the fill your own and bulk sections in a lot of places. Yeah, you can buy bulk oats but it's gonna be at a mark up. So I'm guessing bushbear doesn't have a...
The fancy grocers are the ones with the fill your own and bulk sections in a lot of places. Yeah, you can buy bulk oats but it's gonna be at a mark up. So I'm guessing bushbear doesn't have a 'discount' chain with a bulk section.
For Olive Oil, I'd have to drive an extra 30 minutes and pay nearly twice as much compared to the shop two miles from my house. I could buy the most expensive glass bottle and probably break even on Carbon emissions there in terms of environmental impact.
I would add "can be recycled" and "is recycled" are two different piles of plastic. There are many documented cases of municipal recycling programs unable to find buyers, backers, processors, or...
I would add "can be recycled" and "is recycled" are two different piles of plastic.
There are many documented cases of municipal recycling programs unable to find buyers, backers, processors, or some other critical link in the chain ... then shrug, say "we tried", and ship all the recyclable plastic to China (or, I guess, Malaysia), anyway.
"Recyclable" in the case of plastic also doesn't (usually) mean "back into beverage containers". It's generally some low-performance industrial use that then finds its way into a landfill or a burn bin after 2nd (or 3rd) use.
Beverage bottles are, almost invariably, first-use plastics.
Two out of seven are recyclable, indicated by the very cleverly misleading recycle-like logo with a number in the middle, usually on the back of the packaging. It's mostly greenwashing when...
Two out of seven are recyclable, indicated by the very cleverly misleading recycle-like logo with a number in the middle, usually on the back of the packaging.
It's mostly greenwashing when municipalities start talking about recycling plastic.
My figuring is that even if it does all end up getting dumped somewhere else, at least it's relatively sorted and accessible. If a new technology is discovered for processing plastics (an...
My figuring is that even if it does all end up getting dumped somewhere else, at least it's relatively sorted and accessible. If a new technology is discovered for processing plastics (an engineered bacteria? new chemical process?), we'll have a way of applying it right away and at scale.
So long as it's not being burned or dumped into the ocean, it can't be any worse than simply being mixed into landfills.
Sometimes that’s what “recycling” ends up being. Japan famously boasts an 87% plastic recycling rate. Very impressive. Although, maybe less impressive when it turns out that Japan considers...
So long as it's not being burned or dumped into the ocean, it can't be any worse than simply being mixed into landfills.
Sometimes that’s what “recycling” ends up being. Japan famously boasts an 87% plastic recycling rate. Very impressive.
Although, maybe less impressive when it turns out that Japan considers burning plastic for electricity generation as “recycling”. And that 62 of that 87% is setting the plastic on fire.
I believe they are still filtered quite extensively when burned for power. I’m not sure if plastic sitting in a landfill is better than it being burned to generate electricity though.
I believe they are still filtered quite extensively when burned for power. I’m not sure if plastic sitting in a landfill is better than it being burned to generate electricity though.
Arguably turning hydrocarbons into a solid and burying them back in the ground is an imperfect form of carbon sequestration. Also arguably if you're going to burn hydrocarbons, it's better to burn...
Arguably turning hydrocarbons into a solid and burying them back in the ground is an imperfect form of carbon sequestration.
Also arguably if you're going to burn hydrocarbons, it's better to burn plastic from already extracted oil and not mine more coal or whatever. Not burning them would be far preferable though. Japan is in a situation most of us are probably unfamiliar with in that they have to import most of their energy sources, with a heavy majority of their electricity coming from imported fossil fuels. (Something like 40% oil, 24% coal, 24% natural gas.)
I had a really long rant against the CRV program I deleted because I decided that I didn’t want to be super negative this morning. Needless to say I’m very disappointed in it.
I had a really long rant against the CRV program I deleted because I decided that I didn’t want to be super negative this morning. Needless to say I’m very disappointed in it.
Where I live, the solid waste authority only collects recyclables that they can sell "locally" (which I think just means anywhere in the US). There are certain types of things (like plastic yogurt...
Where I live, the solid waste authority only collects recyclables that they can sell "locally" (which I think just means anywhere in the US). There are certain types of things (like plastic yogurt cups) that they would not accept or diverted to the trash if they ended up at the recycling facility until they could fine a buyer for those items specifically. They did start accepting the yogurt cups and those little plastic fruit cups in the last year or two.
They also actively expand the recycling program fairly often - they have started a program to take in unusable old clothes to send to a fabric recycler. They have partnered with Goodwill on that as well so usable things that end up at their facility might still be reused.
It's nice because they've never relied on shipping anything to a foreign country but has the downside of things that could be recycled aren't if there isn't a buyer.
I think I prefer that to just tossing these things to somebody else to deal with.
I take issue with framing it as though the dilemma is new and because nobody will take our plastic. The dilemma continues to be in unsustainable levels of use of plastic.
From the article:
...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but recycling plastic is quite horrible still and we're just pretending the problem doesn't exist by shipping it to poor countries right? I always wonder if putting plastic in the recycling bin is actually a net positive or if it's performative theater.
Putting it in the recycling bin vs throwing it in the landfill is almost certainly a net positive. Using plastic vs another container is likely a net negative.
Beverage bottles are almost always PET, which is a decently recyclable plastic. Not the best, but far from the worst.
Is it though? 95% of it ends up in a landfill, or similar, anyway. If some of it is shipped to asia that adds an extra carbon footprint before it ends up in a landfill. In that instance it would seem to be a net negative.
I want to say, none of the rest of this post is really directed at you @weldawadyathink, rather at one of the most evil industries in human history. If I have any issue with you personally, it's that your username is so damn hard to type correctly.
According to this NPR article soda bottles usually don't meet the requirements for being recycleable.
And according to an industry trade group only about 20% of PET beverage containers are recycled. So cut that number in half and it's probably still an overestimation.
At best, recycling is a social statement. It says we give a shit about this stuff, and that does have value. But I think we should be ruthlessly honest about the situation so that we're ready to support anti-plastic initiatives when they're proposed. Because using less plastic is the only realistic solution. Recycling isn't now, and will likely never be, anything other than a psychological coping mechanism for consumers. It's tough to swallow, because recycling feels good, but it's objectively true.
Which is why we should always remind each other, in these sorts of conversations, that plastic recycling was thought up, marketed, funded and continues to be perpetuated by the petrocarbon industry as a way to combat negative public perception of plastics.
Plastics are the oil industry's cynical way of growing demand despite climate change action and they're going to continue to throw huge amounts of capital at increasing production and use of plastics while fighting negative perception. That includes funding disingenuous science, paying for authoritative seeming articles in reputable publications and discrediting legitimate concerns. Not to mention outright lying.
Its mostly performance theatre to ease our minds in the moment. The way in see it is its only slightly better that just throwing it on the ground. Ideally we would just use less plastic. If I could afford to refill mason jars then I would but alas that is a bit out of my price range.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/jul/23/total-infiltration-how-plastics-industry-swamped-vital-global-treaty-talks
Its a bit late for this kinda reading but according to the article we are creating 450 million tons of new plastic a year so ya know keep up that recycling or take the hit and buy less plastic goods.
Could you elaborate on the bit about not being able to afford to refill mason jars? I don’t understand that.
Yea basically what Sodliddesu said. As much as I'd rather refill containers from a shop its not super economically viable for me right now.
In fact I used to do it for some things and I might even go back to it but I gotta figure out my finances first and possibly change my eating habits.
The fancy grocers are the ones with the fill your own and bulk sections in a lot of places. Yeah, you can buy bulk oats but it's gonna be at a mark up. So I'm guessing bushbear doesn't have a 'discount' chain with a bulk section.
For Olive Oil, I'd have to drive an extra 30 minutes and pay nearly twice as much compared to the shop two miles from my house. I could buy the most expensive glass bottle and probably break even on Carbon emissions there in terms of environmental impact.
There are different kinds of plastic and I believe certain kinds can be recycled, but there's a lot of stuff that ends up in the blue bins that can't.
I would add "can be recycled" and "is recycled" are two different piles of plastic.
There are many documented cases of municipal recycling programs unable to find buyers, backers, processors, or some other critical link in the chain ... then shrug, say "we tried", and ship all the recyclable plastic to China (or, I guess, Malaysia), anyway.
"Recyclable" in the case of plastic also doesn't (usually) mean "back into beverage containers". It's generally some low-performance industrial use that then finds its way into a landfill or a burn bin after 2nd (or 3rd) use.
Beverage bottles are, almost invariably, first-use plastics.
Two out of seven are recyclable, indicated by the very cleverly misleading recycle-like logo with a number in the middle, usually on the back of the packaging.
It's mostly greenwashing when municipalities start talking about recycling plastic.
I call it the "good intentions" bin.
My figuring is that even if it does all end up getting dumped somewhere else, at least it's relatively sorted and accessible. If a new technology is discovered for processing plastics (an engineered bacteria? new chemical process?), we'll have a way of applying it right away and at scale.
So long as it's not being burned or dumped into the ocean, it can't be any worse than simply being mixed into landfills.
Sometimes that’s what “recycling” ends up being. Japan famously boasts an 87% plastic recycling rate. Very impressive.
Although, maybe less impressive when it turns out that Japan considers burning plastic for electricity generation as “recycling”. And that 62 of that 87% is setting the plastic on fire.
https://featured.japan-forward.com/japan2earth/2023/09/4195/?amp=1
I believe they are still filtered quite extensively when burned for power. I’m not sure if plastic sitting in a landfill is better than it being burned to generate electricity though.
Arguably turning hydrocarbons into a solid and burying them back in the ground is an imperfect form of carbon sequestration.
Also arguably if you're going to burn hydrocarbons, it's better to burn plastic from already extracted oil and not mine more coal or whatever. Not burning them would be far preferable though. Japan is in a situation most of us are probably unfamiliar with in that they have to import most of their energy sources, with a heavy majority of their electricity coming from imported fossil fuels. (Something like 40% oil, 24% coal, 24% natural gas.)
Maybe this can force us to further restrict single use plastics in California.
I had a really long rant against the CRV program I deleted because I decided that I didn’t want to be super negative this morning. Needless to say I’m very disappointed in it.
Where I live, the solid waste authority only collects recyclables that they can sell "locally" (which I think just means anywhere in the US). There are certain types of things (like plastic yogurt cups) that they would not accept or diverted to the trash if they ended up at the recycling facility until they could fine a buyer for those items specifically. They did start accepting the yogurt cups and those little plastic fruit cups in the last year or two.
They also actively expand the recycling program fairly often - they have started a program to take in unusable old clothes to send to a fabric recycler. They have partnered with Goodwill on that as well so usable things that end up at their facility might still be reused.
It's nice because they've never relied on shipping anything to a foreign country but has the downside of things that could be recycled aren't if there isn't a buyer.
I think I prefer that to just tossing these things to somebody else to deal with.