To be honest, I don't think that this is terribly surprising; I think that by being aggressive GM has a chance to dominate a market that other companies have been rather slow to take advantage of....
To be honest, I don't think that this is terribly surprising; I think that by being aggressive GM has a chance to dominate a market that other companies have been rather slow to take advantage of. Like the article mentions, they already have a wide range of EVs they sell internationally, so they have a lot invested on the technology and design side of the equation. And the fact that GM has a ton of different brands that serve different market segments means that they're in a very good position to cease a lot of market share. Right now Tesla is the only company with multiple EV models available; most other manufacturers don't even have different trims available on their sole EV model.
Of course, Volkswagen promised the same thing by 2030 and yet here we are with only a single EV to show for it....
This isn't just about overly picky consumers though. When it comes to pickup trucks especially, a lot of people, businesses, and industries rely on them for actually getting work done, and it's a...
This isn't just about overly picky consumers though. When it comes to pickup trucks especially, a lot of people, businesses, and industries rely on them for actually getting work done, and it's a lot harder to compromise on their capabilities in that situation. A truck with a severely limited range and carrying/towing capacity, that also requires X hours of charging time when it runs out of juice, simply isn't a realistic option for most work applications.
Should consumers who don't really need a truck, and only want one for the aesthetics, accept the compromises? Sure. But not everyone can.
I don't think you fully appreciate just how remote huge swaths of Canada and the US are, how much distance there is between infrastructure points in those regions, and yet despite that, just how...
I don't think you fully appreciate just how remote huge swaths of Canada and the US are, how much distance there is between infrastructure points in those regions, and yet despite that, just how much critical work still takes place there. When I say that what you're suggesting "isn't realistic", I don't just mean that people would rather not compromise... I mean that it's quite literally still impossible for many to make the switch to EV pickup trucks without a massive overhaul of the infrastructure in the areas they live/work, which itself is unrealistic to expect due to the costs involved in building and maintaining that remote infrastructure.
To give you an example beyond what @Loire himself has already mentioned he experiences first-hand on a regular basis; My uncle and cousin run a rock-crushing & road resurfacing business that operates in northern Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba. Without medium and heavy duty pickup trucks capable of significant range and towing capacity, they and their competitors would likely no longer be able to effectively maintain the road systems in the top 1/3 - 1/2 of those provinces. And again, despite the remoteness, there is actually still a lot of critical businesses that rely on those roads, not to mention all the communities up there that do as well.
Another example. My grandfather and another uncle used to work in the pulp & paper industry in British Columbia, and that is another critical industry that also relies on having similarly capable pickup trucks, and remote roads being maintained.
And even outside the more remote regions, plenty of population center based businesses rely on medium and heavy duty pickup trucks to get the job done too, and having the range and carrying/towing capacity of those vehicles reduced would significantly hamper their ability to continue operating. E.g. An industry that another uncle of mine is in, that I also used to work in; Commercial landscaping, maintenance & tree care.
Demanding and forcing radical change for the sake of the environment is all well and good, but doing so without taking into account the harsh reality of the situation a lot of people and businesses are stuck in can potentially be just as harmful, or actually even make things worse than it is now. E.g. By forcing EV pickups, a lot of businesses will simply go under, or be forced to buy even heavier duty commercial trucks to replace them in order to stay in business... which would likely result in even more overall emissions than had you not forced the change.
I take that as a massive compliment, since I see us Canadians as having one foot in the "modern" business world, but the other still firmly planted in the blue-collar one still alive and well in...
You have got to be the most Canadian poster on this site.
I take that as a massive compliment, since I see us Canadians as having one foot in the "modern" business world, but the other still firmly planted in the blue-collar one still alive and well in our remote places. :P
And just to give myself and my family even more Canadian street cred, my best friend was a diesel-electric mechanic at a mine in northern Ontario, my great uncle runs a Canola farm in Manitoba, and my other grandfather was a long-haul trucker for Labatt (the Canadian beer company) in BC, who my own father worked for for decades too (first as a trucker as well, but eventually working his way up to being a VP). ;)
It's easy to demand compromise when you are walking distance from most everything you need
Which is especially ironic due to the fact that the reason everything is within walking distance for said city dwellers is largely due to the resources being produced and shipped in from the remote regions, where they often can't make any compromises or the whole system would collapse.
I could probably give him a run for his money but I'll try to avoid derailing this into a closest-ancestral-ties to Paul Bunyan contest. :P This is very true -- especially in a country like...
You have got to be the most Canadian poster on this site.
I could probably give him a run for his money but I'll try to avoid derailing this into a closest-ancestral-ties to Paul Bunyan contest. :P
It seems like too often city dwellers, and I say this as a (formerly clueless) city dweller myself, have no ability to understand what goes into keeping civilization ticking along. They don't understand what it's like to be hundreds of kilometers from any sort of amenities like a gas/charging station. Or needing to drive such a long distance in a single day that you have to fuel up multiple times and can't afford to waste a couple hours for a charge.
This is very true -- especially in a country like Canada. In the USA it's more feasible to have extensive charging networks but less dense countries are going to have a harder time.
That said, I live in a small town and I would say 3/4 families here drive a pickup (myself included so I'm no stranger to hypocrisy). Most don't really need to drive them. Industrial use aside, at some point we will have to have the conversation about people 'needing' trucks to tow massive trailers or haul their snowmobiles into the Rockies or whatever. If we do, the angst will be unprecedented -- to the point I find it highly unlikely anyone has the political capital to take recreational ICE vehicles off the road and we'll see them for quite some time.
Hah! TBH, you probably got me beat anyways. I am only a fourth? generation Canadian. One set of great grandparents on one side immigrated from Italy, one set on the other immigrated from the UK....
I'll try to avoid derailing this into a closest-ancestral-ties to Paul Bunyan contest. :P
Hah! TBH, you probably got me beat anyways. I am only a fourth? generation Canadian. One set of great grandparents on one side immigrated from Italy, one set on the other immigrated from the UK. And while I'm unsure about the others two sets, all my grandparents were born in Canada AFAIK.
And despite my defense of ICE pickup trucks for use in industry here in Canada, I 100% agree that there is definitely way too many pickup drivers here that likely don't really need to own them, and probably shouldn't... but also like you, as unfortunately as it is, I seriously doubt there is enough political capital to have their ownership seriously restricted, especially given how ingrained they are in our rural culture. E.g. Wanna go out fer a rip, bud? ;)
I'd also call myself a radical environmentalist, but I think this would ultimately be a bad thing. Combustion engines are not bad, what's bad is how careless we are with them. If combustion...
I'd also call myself a radical environmentalist, but I think this would ultimately be a bad thing. Combustion engines are not bad, what's bad is how careless we are with them. If combustion engines were only used in specific, targeted applications where they truly were the best option to get the job done (and there are plenty, even when you account for environmental concerns), like in a work truck, we would reduce vehicle emissions substantially.
Although, I'm 100% with you on
I know this sounds like a crazy idea, since humans are terrible at it, but... what if we accepted some level of compromise in terms of personal convenience in exchange for meaningfully mitigating climate change?
Like, look at the global conservation effort during WWII, and that was so we could kill each other. Now there is a unifying, existential threat that could wipe ALL of us out, and suddenly taking some personal responsibility is a pipedream? It makes me feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
I definitely agree that consumer habits NEED to change, but I think this could take the form of things like a permitting system for traditionally "dirty" technologies.
It's a nice thought and one that should be widely adopted; however, with the level of stupidity shown daily by not only common people but their supposed leaders, I am cynical.
It's a nice thought and one that should be widely adopted; however, with the level of stupidity shown daily by not only common people but their supposed leaders, I am cynical.
Even if another GOP president is elected, they seem likely to stick with this position. Someone on Reddit pointed out this fact (somewhat paraphrased): companies can see cars designed for...
Even if another GOP president is elected, they seem likely to stick with this position. Someone on Reddit pointed out this fact (somewhat paraphrased): companies can see cars designed for Democratic administrations during Republican ones, but not vice versa. There’s also the fact that not transitioning now will put them at a severe disadvantage to European, Japanese, Korean, and Chinese (if they can get their act together) automakers who have switched.
To be honest, I don't think that this is terribly surprising; I think that by being aggressive GM has a chance to dominate a market that other companies have been rather slow to take advantage of. Like the article mentions, they already have a wide range of EVs they sell internationally, so they have a lot invested on the technology and design side of the equation. And the fact that GM has a ton of different brands that serve different market segments means that they're in a very good position to cease a lot of market share. Right now Tesla is the only company with multiple EV models available; most other manufacturers don't even have different trims available on their sole EV model.
Of course, Volkswagen promised the same thing by 2030 and yet here we are with only a single EV to show for it....
This isn't just about overly picky consumers though. When it comes to pickup trucks especially, a lot of people, businesses, and industries rely on them for actually getting work done, and it's a lot harder to compromise on their capabilities in that situation. A truck with a severely limited range and carrying/towing capacity, that also requires X hours of charging time when it runs out of juice, simply isn't a realistic option for most work applications.
Should consumers who don't really need a truck, and only want one for the aesthetics, accept the compromises? Sure. But not everyone can.
I don't think you fully appreciate just how remote huge swaths of Canada and the US are, how much distance there is between infrastructure points in those regions, and yet despite that, just how much critical work still takes place there. When I say that what you're suggesting "isn't realistic", I don't just mean that people would rather not compromise... I mean that it's quite literally still impossible for many to make the switch to EV pickup trucks without a massive overhaul of the infrastructure in the areas they live/work, which itself is unrealistic to expect due to the costs involved in building and maintaining that remote infrastructure.
To give you an example beyond what @Loire himself has already mentioned he experiences first-hand on a regular basis; My uncle and cousin run a rock-crushing & road resurfacing business that operates in northern Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba. Without medium and heavy duty pickup trucks capable of significant range and towing capacity, they and their competitors would likely no longer be able to effectively maintain the road systems in the top 1/3 - 1/2 of those provinces. And again, despite the remoteness, there is actually still a lot of critical businesses that rely on those roads, not to mention all the communities up there that do as well.
Another example. My grandfather and another uncle used to work in the pulp & paper industry in British Columbia, and that is another critical industry that also relies on having similarly capable pickup trucks, and remote roads being maintained.
And even outside the more remote regions, plenty of population center based businesses rely on medium and heavy duty pickup trucks to get the job done too, and having the range and carrying/towing capacity of those vehicles reduced would significantly hamper their ability to continue operating. E.g. An industry that another uncle of mine is in, that I also used to work in; Commercial landscaping, maintenance & tree care.
Demanding and forcing radical change for the sake of the environment is all well and good, but doing so without taking into account the harsh reality of the situation a lot of people and businesses are stuck in can potentially be just as harmful, or actually even make things worse than it is now. E.g. By forcing EV pickups, a lot of businesses will simply go under, or be forced to buy even heavier duty commercial trucks to replace them in order to stay in business... which would likely result in even more overall emissions than had you not forced the change.
I take that as a massive compliment, since I see us Canadians as having one foot in the "modern" business world, but the other still firmly planted in the blue-collar one still alive and well in our remote places. :P
And just to give myself and my family even more Canadian street cred, my best friend was a diesel-electric mechanic at a mine in northern Ontario, my great uncle runs a Canola farm in Manitoba, and my other grandfather was a long-haul trucker for Labatt (the Canadian beer company) in BC, who my own father worked for for decades too (first as a trucker as well, but eventually working his way up to being a VP). ;)
Which is especially ironic due to the fact that the reason everything is within walking distance for said city dwellers is largely due to the resources being produced and shipped in from the remote regions, where they often can't make any compromises or the whole system would collapse.
I could probably give him a run for his money but I'll try to avoid derailing this into a closest-ancestral-ties to Paul Bunyan contest. :P
This is very true -- especially in a country like Canada. In the USA it's more feasible to have extensive charging networks but less dense countries are going to have a harder time.
That said, I live in a small town and I would say 3/4 families here drive a pickup (myself included so I'm no stranger to hypocrisy). Most don't really need to drive them. Industrial use aside, at some point we will have to have the conversation about people 'needing' trucks to tow massive trailers or haul their snowmobiles into the Rockies or whatever. If we do, the angst will be unprecedented -- to the point I find it highly unlikely anyone has the political capital to take recreational ICE vehicles off the road and we'll see them for quite some time.
Hah! TBH, you probably got me beat anyways. I am only a fourth? generation Canadian. One set of great grandparents on one side immigrated from Italy, one set on the other immigrated from the UK. And while I'm unsure about the others two sets, all my grandparents were born in Canada AFAIK.
And despite my defense of ICE pickup trucks for use in industry here in Canada, I 100% agree that there is definitely way too many pickup drivers here that likely don't really need to own them, and probably shouldn't... but also like you, as unfortunately as it is, I seriously doubt there is enough political capital to have their ownership seriously restricted, especially given how ingrained they are in our rural culture. E.g. Wanna go out fer a rip, bud? ;)
I'd also call myself a radical environmentalist, but I think this would ultimately be a bad thing. Combustion engines are not bad, what's bad is how careless we are with them. If combustion engines were only used in specific, targeted applications where they truly were the best option to get the job done (and there are plenty, even when you account for environmental concerns), like in a work truck, we would reduce vehicle emissions substantially.
Although, I'm 100% with you on
Like, look at the global conservation effort during WWII, and that was so we could kill each other. Now there is a unifying, existential threat that could wipe ALL of us out, and suddenly taking some personal responsibility is a pipedream? It makes me feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
I definitely agree that consumer habits NEED to change, but I think this could take the form of things like a permitting system for traditionally "dirty" technologies.
It's a nice thought and one that should be widely adopted; however, with the level of stupidity shown daily by not only common people but their supposed leaders, I am cynical.
Could we not resort to insults, please?
What insult? Inciting a riot that killed 4 people is objectively stupid, among other things. It's hardly an insult.
Don't underestimate GM's ability to royally squander any opportunities it comes by. It's in their DNA.
No kidding, the EV1 was comparable to the Nissan Leaf, with a fifteen year head start, and they buried that thing.
Yeah, people have made movies about how badly they screw these things up.
Even if another GOP president is elected, they seem likely to stick with this position. Someone on Reddit pointed out this fact (somewhat paraphrased): companies can see cars designed for Democratic administrations during Republican ones, but not vice versa. There’s also the fact that not transitioning now will put them at a severe disadvantage to European, Japanese, Korean, and Chinese (if they can get their act together) automakers who have switched.