11 votes

We talked with the New Hampshire family in Andrew Yang’s universal basic income experiment

12 comments

  1. spit-evil-olive-tips
    Link
    Emphasis added: Even when discussing UBI, we find it hard to shift the discussion away from who is "deserving" of help, who deserves help more than others, and so on. The entire point of Universal...

    Emphasis added:

    “I know it’s just a political stunt, and sometimes I feel like we’re being used,” says Chuck, who also worries that a more deserving family is out there.

    Even when discussing UBI, we find it hard to shift the discussion away from who is "deserving" of help, who deserves help more than others, and so on.

    The entire point of Universal Basic Income is that everyone "deserves" it, simply by virtue of being a living human.

    It's impossible to come up with an objective ranking of who in society "deserves" help the most vs. the least. And thus endless political capital (and lobbying time and money) is spent trying to get one interest group or constituency to be seen as more deserving compared to others.

    The family in this story deserves UBI. Others may deserve it more, others may deserve it less. That doesn't matter, this isn't the Deserving of Help Olympics where only the gold, silver and bronze medalists get help and everyone else is an also-ran.

    17 votes
  2. [12]
    Comment deleted by author
    Link
    1. [5]
      Kraetos
      Link Parent
      Older than 35 Natural-born US citizen He seems qualified to me?

      Andrew Yang is, of course, unqualified to be president.

      • Older than 35
      • Natural-born US citizen

      He seems qualified to me?

      7 votes
      1. [5]
        Comment deleted by author
        Link Parent
        1. [4]
          Kraetos
          Link Parent
          That makes him inexperienced, not unqualified. Which, sure, in that case I agree with you. He has some interesting ideas but I'm like 99% sure he would be totally lost trying to run the Federal...

          That makes him inexperienced, not unqualified. Which, sure, in that case I agree with you. He has some interesting ideas but I'm like 99% sure he would be totally lost trying to run the Federal government.

          1. alyaza
            Link Parent
            i think this boils down to semantics, personally. most people i think would see his total lack of applicable experience as one and the same with being unqualified (even if he meets all the...

            That makes him inexperienced, not unqualified. Which, sure, in that case I agree with you. He has some interesting ideas but I'm like 99% sure he would be totally lost trying to run the Federal government.

            i think this boils down to semantics, personally. most people i think would see his total lack of applicable experience as one and the same with being unqualified (even if he meets all the technical qualifications necessary) with respect to nearly any job, much less one as powerful as the presidency of the united states.

            4 votes
          2. [3]
            Comment deleted by author
            Link Parent
            1. [2]
              Kraetos
              Link Parent
              It aint, tho. The Constitution lays out specific requirements for being president. Anyone who meets those requirements is by definition "qualified." It's literally what the word means. If using...

              It aint, tho. The Constitution lays out specific requirements for being president. Anyone who meets those requirements is by definition "qualified." It's literally what the word means.

              If using words in the correct way makes me a pedant then guilty as charged.

              1 vote
              1. [2]
                Comment deleted by author
                Link Parent
                1. Kraetos
                  Link Parent
                  Sure. Eligibility is better than qualified in this context, but none of that changes that inexperienced is still the best way to describe the concept at hand.

                  Sure. Eligibility is better than qualified in this context, but none of that changes that inexperienced is still the best way to describe the concept at hand.

    2. [5]
      unknown user
      Link Parent
      That's a jump I can't make. Help me out? The idea of it is pretty simple. I can go about it in 30 seconds. Check this out: The inevitable tsunami of automation would leave most families would job...

      Andrew Yang is, of course, unqualified to be president.

      That's a jump I can't make. Help me out?

      It is too big of an idea to implement too soon or in haste.

      The idea of it is pretty simple. I can go about it in 30 seconds. Check this out:

      The inevitable tsunami of automation would leave most families would job and, therefore, without money. UBI seeks to rectify the future pitfalls by putting a financial net there as soon as possible so that we could live in a better-operated, smoother-running society where human beings are much freer to create and develop themselves.

      It's the bureaucratic nightmare that would immediately preceed its complete implementation that causes some people in the office to wake up in cold sweat in the middle of the night.

      5 votes
      1. [4]
        alyaza
        Link Parent
        well, he has literally no political experience of any kind for one thing, nor does he seemingly have political connections to either of the two major parties (even donald actually has more...

        That's a jump I can't make. Help me out?

        well, he has literally no political experience of any kind for one thing, nor does he seemingly have political connections to either of the two major parties (even donald actually has more experience than him if you count his abortive presidential run!) so yang is, quite literally, about as distally and qualification removed as a potential candidate can be for a position like the presidency.

        4 votes
        1. [3]
          unknown user
          Link Parent
          You say "abortive", but he's in office – and on page 1000. In the meantime, a comedian just won presidential elections in Ukraine. Say what you want, but someone with no political experience is...

          (even donald actually has more experience than him if you count his abortive presidential run!)

          You say "abortive", but he's in office – and on page 1000.

          In the meantime, a comedian just won presidential elections in Ukraine. Say what you want, but someone with no political experience is what the US might need right about now: no prejudice to the system, original solutions – and sure, blunders along the way, but you do that when you learn.

          2 votes
          1. [2]
            alyaza
            Link Parent
            no, no, no. this is basically always a very bad idea, and zelenskiy is the worst possible person to use as an example if you're trying to make this point, especially with respect to the US. the...

            In the meantime, a comedian just won presidential elections in Ukraine. Say what you want, but someone with no political experience is what the US might need right about now: no prejudice to the system, original solutions – and sure, blunders along the way, but you do that when you learn.

            no, no, no. this is basically always a very bad idea, and zelenskiy is the worst possible person to use as an example if you're trying to make this point, especially with respect to the US. the whole reason zelenskiy won because his competition was the incumbent petro poroshenko (who is an oligarch) is a complete shithead, not necessarily because people actually want him (ironically, zelenskiy himself is bankrolled by at least one other oligarch so he's basically a part of the corruption they tried to vote out too!).

            outside of his own ties to oligarchs despite being an anti-corruption candidate, zelenskiy's actual platform is like six bullet points long, and if he's better than poroshenko, it's probably going to be because he's not fucking around and doing corrupt shit with people like michael flynn and not because of any policies or novel ideas he has. just to give you an idea of how skeletal his policy ideas are, here's the extent of his party's ideological section on wikipedia:

            In an interview in April 2019, party leader Zelensky stated that he supported the free distribution of medical cannabis, was a supporter of free abortion in Ukraine and would like to see the legalisation of prostitution and gambling in Ukraine.[20] He spoke out against the legalization of weapons.[20]

            and on his own page, his "political views" section really only adds that:

            • he's pro NATO
            • he wants to reform the system
            • he wants to restore confidence in the state and grow the economy
            • he wants to end the donbass war and eventually regain crimea
            • he supports decommunization
            • and he doesn't like people targeting the russian language

            which... yeah. that's not much, and it's also exceedingly likely that on most of these issues he's just going to become a proxy for the oligarchs backing him and people who know better than he does and their interests--in other words, basically like donald trump on a lot of issues--specifically because he doesn't know the ropes.

            6 votes
            1. unknown user
              Link Parent
              Maybe you're right. I can see how he can get manipulated and strung around by people he owes things to. Maybe Yang's gonna be the same – or maybe, if he's ever elected, he'd just make a number of...

              Maybe you're right. I can see how he can get manipulated and strung around by people he owes things to. Maybe Yang's gonna be the same – or maybe, if he's ever elected, he'd just make a number of mistakes that would be atypical for someone who knows the system.

              It's just that... I keep seeing politicians fucking the US in the ass repeatedly, like a gang bang, exactly because they know how to work the system: they've been in it for long enough. Not knowing how I can contribute to the improvement of the situation (and I legally can't, as I'm not a US citizen), my best hope for the country I love so much is to have someone in the office that gives a shit and is not corrupted by the system yet.

              There needs to be a massive overhaul of the whole political system in the US for it to work "by the people, for the people", but for now, someone who isn't yet part of The Swamp™ is the best I can hope for. Whether they have political experience or not, to me, is irrelevant.

              2 votes
    3. frostycakes
      Link Parent
      And it entrenches existing corporate interests and does nothing to address then problems with capitalism itself, it's just another band aid, another bone thrown to us "little people" in the hopes...

      And it entrenches existing corporate interests and does nothing to address then problems with capitalism itself, it's just another band aid, another bone thrown to us "little people" in the hopes we keep buying their shit (I'm skeptical of the political motivations of tech executives, sorry to say), and, in my opinion, to try and head off moves towards authentic workplace democracy and being able to have a true say and ownership in where you work.

      1 vote