12 votes

Boeing CEO Dennis Muilenburg dismissed as 737 Max woes continue

8 comments

  1. Blam
    (edited )
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    Ironic how the executives over there pushed for cost savings so much, and this ended up probably costing them more than they ever would have saved. Narrow sighted and poorly planned "cost cutting"...

    Ironic how the executives over there pushed for cost savings so much, and this ended up probably costing them more than they ever would have saved.

    Narrow sighted and poorly planned "cost cutting" is foolish and will bite you in the ass. I would be laughing at them if there weren't over 300 lives lost.

    4 votes
  2. [7]
    vord
    Link
    Every manager, C-Suite, and chairperson involved in the creation of the 737 MAX should be facing substantial prision sentences, if not the death penalty... And this is coming from someone who...

    Every manager, C-Suite, and chairperson involved in the creation of the 737 MAX should be facing substantial prision sentences, if not the death penalty... And this is coming from someone who otherwise is generally opposed to imprisonment. These companies are literally gambling on people's lives to squeeze out a bit more profits.

    Subbing out one C-Suite suit for another without any serious consequences won't prevent these business-driven travesties from happening again and again.

    3 votes
    1. [6]
      emdash
      Link Parent
      I'm sorry, what? I can't take your comment seriously when you lead with this, sorry, utter garbage. Why should the manager of a specific portion of the 737 MAX design have to go to prison, or face...

      Every manager, C-Suite, and chairperson involved in the creation of the 737 MAX should be facing substantial prision sentences, if not the death penalty...

      I'm sorry, what? I can't take your comment seriously when you lead with this, sorry, utter garbage. Why should the manager of a specific portion of the 737 MAX design have to go to prison, or face the death penalty—christ—of all things, even if they had nothing to do with the specific changes across multiple facets of the program that resulted in this tragedy?

      What a ridiculous, overblown take. Yes, there should be significant fines and a few people should probably serve prison sentences, but you've swung super far beyond any reasonable position to the point where it detriments the arguments of people who have similar but less extreme positions.

      The CEO has gone, many of the board probably need to go too—there should be negligence or other criminal investigations taking place, yes. But you're proposing executing every manager involved in the project? Fuck no.

      6 votes
      1. [3]
        vord
        Link Parent
        I stand by what I said, I chose my words carefully. They should be facing substantial prison sentences and perhaps the death penalty, and be found guilty or not in a court of law. Every piece of...

        I stand by what I said, I chose my words carefully. They should be facing substantial prison sentences and perhaps the death penalty, and be found guilty or not in a court of law. Every piece of communication should be examined, every engineer called to the stand, no stone un-turned. Because while yes, the CEO has the most responsibility, so should every manager that enabled their decisions.

        The CEO that's stepping down now? He wasn't even CEO until 2016, long after the majority of the critical design decisions for the 737 MAX were made. He's most likely a patsy for the CEO that made most of the decision making up to that point: James McNerney.

        I'd like to point you to this nice little opinion piece about McNerney's retirement in 2015:
        https://www.forbes.com/sites/richardaboulafia/2015/06/24/boeing-mcnerney-and-the-high-price-of-treating-aircraft-like-it-was-any-other-industry/

        Or perhaps this one from 2014:
        https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-boss-jim-mcnerneyrsquos-turbulent-tenure/

        When a company acts immorally, its management must be pulled out like a weed....ripping off the top and leaving the rest in tact is unlikely to actually fix the problem at hand.

        I get that that part of engineering is deciding how much a human life is worth, but those equations have had the scales drastically tipped in favor of the corporations doing the killing instead of the people dying.

        Ford decided that the value of a human life was less than $11/car in 1973.

        GM decided that a human life is worth less than $2 a car in 2005.

        I owned one of the cars affected by that GM ignition switch issue. It had switched off on me on a highway on-ramp, and I thought I had made a mistake, and narrowly avoided what would have certainly been a fatal crash. I find out almost 6 years later (9 years after GM decided to suppress the issue), that my near-death experience was caused not because of a manufacturing defect or my own error, but because the cost savings was deemed more important than my life.

        The value of a human life shouldn't be reduced to a number on some accountant's spreadsheet, to be minimized by lawyers to insure maximum profits. The fact that it is reflects just how sick our culture really is.

        3 votes
        1. [2]
          emdash
          Link Parent
          I am fundamentally against the execution of anyone so we're never going to agree here. For the most part this reads like "kill the rich".

          I am fundamentally against the execution of anyone so we're never going to agree here. For the most part this reads like "kill the rich".

          3 votes
          1. vord
            Link Parent
            I guess that's fair. I am generally against it as well, but then I am also against imprisonment generally. But I also believe in proper accountability, and since our society is lacking in that...

            I guess that's fair. I am generally against it as well, but then I am also against imprisonment generally. But I also believe in proper accountability, and since our society is lacking in that regard, I work with the options that are on the table.

            How exactly do you rehabilitate someone who is actively responsible for killing hundreds of people? It might be different if they were forthcoming about their decisions, stepping down, honestly apologizing, and relinquishing their ill-gotten gains to the affected families. If they didn't know what they were doing was wrong, they wouldn't have actively tried to hide their decisions.

            They valued aquisition of currency over human lives, and I consider that to be morally repugnant. They're playing the real life equivalent of "push this button, get millions of dollars, but a random person dies."

            The decision makers are putting the public in mortal danger to make a few bucks. If they don't value our lives, why should we value theirs?

      2. [2]
        Litmus2336
        Link Parent
        Yeah, do they really believe the death sentence is appropriate for this crime for every manager and chairperson involved in this? Do they really know what it's like to be a manager at a firm? What...

        Yeah, do they really believe the death sentence is appropriate for this crime for every manager and chairperson involved in this? Do they really know what it's like to be a manager at a firm? What it means to work on a large engineering project?

        I really think to have that point you have to just want to kill all the rich, and not really care for what reason.

        People directly involved in the decision should be liable, and potentially sued for everything they have. Many should face long prison sentences. But I really do think you have to be a crazy person to bring the guillotine to Boeing HQ and set up shop. Especially because this is the website that normally believes the government shouldn't be in the business of executing people.

        4 votes
        1. Litmus2336
          Link Parent
          Additionally, and this is not a popular take, but every day engineers and management decide how much a human life is worth. Every car, bridge, and airplane has an acceptable loss factor - some...

          Additionally, and this is not a popular take, but every day engineers and management decide how much a human life is worth. Every car, bridge, and airplane has an acceptable loss factor - some people will die using it. If we decide that loss factor is zero cars, planes, and bridges would cost billions to trillions each. It is the goal of government regulators to determine the appropriate balance. If a company does not listen to regulators, they should be investigated and punished, as they are now. But in cases of the Ford Pinto, it was at least as safe as the US government agreed a compact car ought to be.

          4 votes