68 votes

Your cookware got worse on purpose: who owns Pyrex and All-Clad now

30 comments

  1. [5]
    chocobean
    (edited )
    Link
    What to buy instead section is great. And this advice I will commit to memory: Edit: it seems the site is AI slop so please visit updawg's comment thread for what to buy instead.

    What to buy instead section is great. And this advice I will commit to memory:

    Read the warranty before the reviews. Its length is the company's own estimate of how long the product lasts, and its exclusions are a list of the ways they expect it to fail.

    Edit: it seems the site is AI slop so please visit updawg's comment thread for what to buy instead.

    51 votes
    1. vord
      Link Parent
      It's almost like having a mandatory "zero questions" warranty period of 3 years, and a "reasonable usage" clause of 10 would eliminate an awful lot of straight-up garbage from polluting our lives.

      It's almost like having a mandatory "zero questions" warranty period of 3 years, and a "reasonable usage" clause of 10 would eliminate an awful lot of straight-up garbage from polluting our lives.

      24 votes
    2. [3]
      indirection
      Link Parent
      They don't mention but IKEA sells good carbon steel pans.

      They don't mention but IKEA sells good carbon steel pans.

      14 votes
      1. chocobean
        Link Parent
        IKEA don't have the best everything, but they do stand behind their products and one can usually get stuff replaced without much hassle.

        IKEA don't have the best everything, but they do stand behind their products and one can usually get stuff replaced without much hassle.

        12 votes
      2. dirthawker
        Link Parent
        I have a stainless steel pot from them (3qt I think?) which has been my only pot of that size for 16 years. (I have a much larger stockpot and a much smaller sauce pot which only see occasional...

        I have a stainless steel pot from them (3qt I think?) which has been my only pot of that size for 16 years. (I have a much larger stockpot and a much smaller sauce pot which only see occasional use.) Still looks darned good.

        Kind of bummed to read about Our Place. I got one last year because I follow Kenji Lopez Alt and really like it for its ability to put a good crust on things without sticking. We'll just have to see how long it lasts.

        I bought a deBuyer Mineral B carbon steel but it was very, very heavy, and I discovered after purchase it's not really oven safe (10 minutes at 400, they claim). Got a Vollrath instead and am pretty happy with it.

        3 votes
  2. [14]
    updawg
    Link
    What to buy instead The counter-list in this category runs deeper than any I've covered previously, because cookware is simple enough that stubborn, family-run businesses can still compete. The...
    • Exemplary

    What to buy instead

    The counter-list in this category runs deeper than any I've covered previously, because cookware is simple enough that stubborn, family-run businesses can still compete. The pattern in who survived is uniform: nobody outside the family has ever been owed a return.

    Cast iron

    Lodge: Owned by about 40 members of the founding families, two foundries in South Pittsburg, Tennessee since 1896, and still under $30 for a skillet your grandchildren will likely inherit.

    Smithey: Founder-owned in Charleston, South Carolina. Smooth-finish heirloom pieces at heirloom prices.

    Field Company: Brothers-owned, cast at US foundries. The lightweight, vintage-style pan.

    Stargazer: Founder-owned in Allentown, Pennsylvania. Machined cooking surface, honest price.

    Lancaster Cast Iron: Founder-owned in Conestoga, Pennsylvania with a fully domestic supply chain.

    Borough Furnace: A husband-and-wife shop in Owego, New York that pours its own recycled iron in-house, which almost nobody in this country still does.

    Enameled cast iron

    Le Creuset: Privately held, and the cast iron still comes out of the same French foundry it has since 1925. The stoneware and accessories come from Asia, so buy the iron.

    Staub: Still made in Merville, France under Zwilling, the German family conglomerate that has so far acquired without gutting.

    Stainless and carbon steel

    All-Clad: The bonded lines are still made in Canonsburg, Pennsylvania, sharp-rim settlement and French owner notwithstanding.

    Heritage Steel: Family-owned in Clarksville, Tennessee, building on old Vollrath tooling. The fully American clad alternative.

    Tramontina: Family-controlled in Brazil. The honest value play; their clad line embarrasses pans at twice the price.

    de Buyer: The carbon steel standard, still made in the Vosges. It belongs to Groupe SEB as of January 2025, so it’s one to watch over the next few years.

    Matfer Bourgeat: The French commercial standard, family-held, and what a lot of commercial kitchens use.

    Knives

    Victorinox: 90 percent owned by a foundation built to prevent exactly the kind of sale this essay is about. The Fibrox chef's knife is the best $45 in any kitchen. All my knives are Victorinox - I plan to cover their story in an independent article.

    Wüsthof: Seventh-generation family ownership, forged in Solingen.

    Dexter-Russell: The knife in every American commercial kitchen, made in Southbridge, Massachusetts since 1818, still family-held.

    Bakeware and glass

    Nordic Ware: The family that invented the Bundt pan still makes it in Minneapolis.

    USA Pan: The retail arm of the Bundy family's commercial bakery-pan operation, which equips actual bakeries.

    On glass bakeware, the unfortunate truth is that both American options are soda-lime. If you want borosilicate, buy European Pyrex online or thrift the old stuff.

    32 votes
    1. [4]
      updawg
      Link Parent
      Dinnerware and flatware Corelle: Still made in Corning, New York and still the best cheap dinnerware going. The risk is the owner, not the product. Fiesta: The last big American dinnerware...

      Dinnerware and flatware

      Corelle: Still made in Corning, New York and still the best cheap dinnerware going. The risk is the owner, not the product.

      Fiesta: The last big American dinnerware factory, still family-owned in Newell, West Virginia.

      Liberty Tabletop: America's only flatware, made in the very Sherrill, New York plant Oneida walked away from, bought by two former Oneida executives.

      Special mentions

      Vitamix: Barnard family since 1921, Ohio-made, repairable. The appliance that gets willed to people.

      All American 1930: The pressure canner, cast since 1930 by a family foundry in Manitowoc, Wisconsin, the same town Newell abandoned and got sued by. The town that lost Mirro still makes the best canner on earth. Some receipts write themselves.

      15 votes
      1. [3]
        DynamoSunshirt
        Link Parent
        These summaries are obviously LLM-written, but you didn't include any citations. Did you check the truthiness before posting? How confident are you in this output?

        These summaries are obviously LLM-written, but you didn't include any citations. Did you check the truthiness before posting? How confident are you in this output?

        4 votes
        1. updawg
          Link Parent
          Um...I copied and pasted them from the article.

          Um...I copied and pasted them from the article.

          17 votes
        2. PancakeCats
          Link Parent
          Respectfully, what makes you so confident that these descriptions are LLM output? I should think the burden of proof is on the accuser, not someone sharing an article they found interesting and...

          Respectfully, what makes you so confident that these descriptions are LLM output? I should think the burden of proof is on the accuser, not someone sharing an article they found interesting and helpful (especially one they didnt write.) If they are as obvious as you claim, where are your receipts for said claim?

          I just dont think its very helpful in conversation to just throw an accusation of undisclosed LLM usage at someone and not provide any reasoning as to why you feel that way.

          13 votes
    2. [2]
      zoroa
      Link Parent
      Just an FYI that Matfer Bourgeat had a recall in France back in 2024 due to excessive levels of arsenic leeching from their carbon steel pans in a safety test. Matfer Bourgeat claim that the...

      Matfer Bourgeat: The French commercial standard, family-held, and what a lot of commercial kitchens use.

      Just an FYI that Matfer Bourgeat had a recall in France back in 2024 due to excessive levels of arsenic leeching from their carbon steel pans in a safety test.

      Matfer Bourgeat claim that the French Government "used an inappropriate testing methodology that was inconsistent with the procedure established by the DGCCRF and the EU" (boiling an acidic solution in an unseasoned pan for 2 hours), and that their pans are safe to use.

      I've been following the situation loosely, waiting for some resolution that would give me confidence to buy one. But that hasn't happened.

      Matfer's response has just been "Deny. Deny. Deny", and the French governing body has never released an update to my knowledge.

      I wish either Matfer would've gone the extra mile to reassure folks that everything was okay, or conversely that the French government had either doubled down or released a retraction.

      The situation has fizzled out to the point that Matfer removed the recall FAQ from their website: https://matferbourgeatusa.com/recall-information/

      12 votes
      1. Minori
        Link Parent
        It's always a bad idea to cook acidic meals in cast iron and carbon steel for 10+ minutes. Even without the arsenic, it'll make the food taste metallic.

        It's always a bad idea to cook acidic meals in cast iron and carbon steel for 10+ minutes. Even without the arsenic, it'll make the food taste metallic.

        2 votes
    3. [2]
      SloMoMonday
      Link Parent
      This might seem a little random, but laboratory glassware can be very good. I've been using reagent bottles, beakers and large evaporating bowels in my little baking side project and I'm...

      This might seem a little random, but laboratory glassware can be very good. I've been using reagent bottles, beakers and large evaporating bowels in my little baking side project and I'm constantly looking out for any clearance sales from the supply stores (for safety and common sense reasons, please don't get glassware that was used for real lab work).

      Most of the smaller items can be a steal like 1L
      borosilicate beakers and 500ml quartz bottles going for less than $10. Theres also a few sellers that can customize the pieces by fitting handles or custom markings (I always ask if they can put the weight of an empty container on it so I don't have to keep zeroing out my scales).

      Unfortunately, anything larger than 1L can get pretty pricy, but surprisingly not as bad as some of the pyrex items. I got a few 5l bottles that I use for bulk orders and those were about $60 each. But they paid for themselves because I can fill it with whatever I'm making, leave the whole thing in a pot of boiling water for as long as I want to strayalize and then throw it straight into the fridge. Never had any thermal shock or pressure breaks like some of the new pickling jars I've gotten (seriously, there are so many "fake" jars people get for the aesthetic and even if the size and weight are right, they crack and shatter at the worst possible times). And if I've ever made an ingredient or sauce and have any left overs, just transfer it to a smaller bottle, boil it and it keeps for a while.

      Also, in cookware. Titanium is an amazing non stick surface. Doesn't scratch under metal utensils, is about 80% as good as the polymer options and looks almost brand new after about 2 years of near daily use. Bad news, the prices are insane (up to $200 for a medium pan) and it's hard to know when you are getting the genuine thing. But I hope this will be one of those "forever" purchases like the skillet and kitchen aid I've inherited from my mom.

      Speaking of KitchenAid, if you've gotten one after 2019, take it to a good third party repair person and ask if they can do a quick service and upgrade. The newer models have some penny-pinching in the smaller components that make it far less robust and puts it at risk of major failure. Plastic bushings. Low quality screws. No spring clip for attachments. Thinner wireing. It's made to fail in a lot of small ways and you'd be tempted to just buy new. It's very cheap to prevent most of these problems and get it up to par with older models.

      The newest models have replaced most of the mechanical controls with the jankiest circuit work, the entire motor assembly is a single block so no chance of an inexpensive repair and the new padel attachment looks like they just stamped it out of the cheapest steel they could find. Seriously, any misadventure will probably cause it to scrape up your bowel and you get yummy metal shavings in your birthday cake. And it's a shame because the new features are things I've wanted for a while. A light just above the mixing bowel and a continuous speed controller so you can get the sweet spot between clicks.

      I know people have been stockpiling spares for older units since its obvious Whirlpool is tooling up for all new machines to go that way and I'm sure good machine shops should be able to fabricate spesific parts that go out of circulation. So if you know where to look, I'm sure you can keep the old machines running for a long while.

      9 votes
      1. Wulfsta
        Link Parent
        This reminds me I need to order more beakers for my kitchen!

        This reminds me I need to order more beakers for my kitchen!

        1 vote
    4. [2]
      dhcrazy333
      Link Parent
      Surprised the Made In brand isn't listed as a buy under the stainless steel section. They call it out earlier in the article as a good stainless steel but then don't actually put it in the...

      Surprised the Made In brand isn't listed as a buy under the stainless steel section. They call it out earlier in the article as a good stainless steel but then don't actually put it in the recommended brand.

      I have a handful and absolutely love them. Planning on getting more down the line when budget allows.

      5 votes
      1. bitwyze
        Link Parent
        I was also surprised, but I think this article is only looking at USA-made alternatives and I don't think Made In's pans (at least their stainless clad ones) are made in the US. It looks like only...

        I was also surprised, but I think this article is only looking at USA-made alternatives and I don't think Made In's pans (at least their stainless clad ones) are made in the US. It looks like only their cast iron pans are.

        Regardless, we love our Made In pans. We've been outfitting our kitchen with their gear and absolutely love it. We have one of each size saucier and those pans have seen more action in the 8 months we've had them than some of the pots we've had for years. Hands-down best pan for making mac and cheese.

        1 vote
    5. kacey
      Link Parent
      If I may add, I've liked my Canadian-manufactured Meyer stainless steel cookware. Apparently they make 'em in PEI? (Prince Edward Island; it's the little one off the east coast)

      If I may add, I've liked my Canadian-manufactured Meyer stainless steel cookware. Apparently they make 'em in PEI? (Prince Edward Island; it's the little one off the east coast)

      4 votes
    6. [2]
      Staross
      Link Parent
      I've been using the Victorinox chef's knife almost everyday for about 10 years and it still works great, never sharpened (only honed) and it can still cut tomatoes. It would benefit from...

      I've been using the Victorinox chef's knife almost everyday for about 10 years and it still works great, never sharpened (only honed) and it can still cut tomatoes. It would benefit from sharpening though.

      4 votes
      1. updawg
        Link Parent
        I was surprised to see that in the article because I figured they were low quality, probably private equity, just exploiting the Swiss army knife logo/cross to make Boomers think it was nice.

        I was surprised to see that in the article because I figured they were low quality, probably private equity, just exploiting the Swiss army knife logo/cross to make Boomers think it was nice.

        2 votes
  3. [4]
    beeef
    Link
    It feels like I need to research every single little purchase decision I make before purchasing anything, to make sure it didn't get bought out by private equity or a conglomerate. Even Costco...

    It feels like I need to research every single little purchase decision I make before purchasing anything, to make sure it didn't get bought out by private equity or a conglomerate. Even Costco sells the fake Pyrex and now I don't even feel like I have the trust that their buyers are properly researching items before putting them on the shelves.

    27 votes
    1. Narry
      Link Parent
      In short: yes, that’s correct. You should be researching any purchase that’s above a certain threshold of money that you’re comfortable just lighting on fire. You also should be looking at the...

      In short: yes, that’s correct. You should be researching any purchase that’s above a certain threshold of money that you’re comfortable just lighting on fire. You also should be looking at the terms of extended warranties, and in-store warranties, and what they offer and what they cost versus what you’re spending. Don’t just assume that a warranty has no coverage and that you’re screwed if the product breaks. A lot of manufacturers, especially those that have been around for a while and have a reputation to maintain, will have generous terms of warranty.

      6 votes
    2. [2]
      PraiseTheSoup
      Link Parent
      Costco also routinely hosts in-store demos for hexclad. I love costco but they unfortunately sell a lot of junk these days.

      Costco also routinely hosts in-store demos for hexclad. I love costco but they unfortunately sell a lot of junk these days.

      5 votes
      1. plutonic
        Link Parent
        The Kirkland 5-Ply are amazing quality for the money. Really nice heavy cookware.

        The Kirkland 5-Ply are amazing quality for the money. Really nice heavy cookware.

        1 vote
  4. whbboyd
    Link
    …This is whining about borosilicate, isn't it? read Yeah, sure is. Okay, so, here's the thing. There are clear tradeoffs between borosilicate and tempered glass cookware. Borosilicate has much...

    …This is whining about borosilicate, isn't it?

    read

    Yeah, sure is. Okay, so, here's the thing. There are clear tradeoffs between borosilicate and tempered glass cookware. Borosilicate has much better temperature resistance, but tempered glass is much tougher (and, when it breaks, tends to shatter into tiny square-edged pieces rather than big knife-like shards; more annoying to clean up, perhaps, but much safer). And, it turns out a lot more people break their glass cookware by dropping it than by thermal stress. Did Corning switch to tempered glass because it's cheaper than borosilicate? I mean, it almost certainly contributed to that decision, but I doubt it was the sole driving factor.

    Is Pyrex crap since Corning switched to tempered glass? Maybe! But the answer isn't obviously yes or no.

    The borosilicate discourse is especially frustrating to me because I'm pretty sure Corning has been slowly reducing the quality of their tempered glass. My newer glassware from them has had a lot more surface and finish imperfections than the stuff from just a few decades ago. I even had one container arrive broken in shipping (to their credit, they replaced it no questions asked). But I haven't seen any discussion of this because all anyone talks about is borosilicate.

    Anyway, in general: be suspicious of anyone trying to sell you something, and recognize that "this product is crap now" is in fact a sales pitch (even if it may also be true).

    18 votes
  5. [2]
    sparkle
    (edited )
    Link
    This is hilariously well timed. Just last night I knocked over a stack of Pyrex measuring cups. The ones on the bottom and top were older borosilicate ones. The one in the middle was a recently...

    This is hilariously well timed. Just last night I knocked over a stack of Pyrex measuring cups. The ones on the bottom and top were older borosilicate ones. The one in the middle was a recently acquired gift from a well meaning family member. Guess which one shattered into a million pieces as it was crushed between its older, heavier, siblings?

    Any way, the recommendations don't really mention anything for borosilicate measuring cups outside of Europe. I did find that Nutrichef might make some good ones? But I've never looked into them before - anybody know anything about them? I've never heard of them which, considering I have heard of all the other shitty brands in the article, is probably a good thing.

    11 votes
    1. snake_case
      Link Parent
      The only option in the US is to find them at thrift stores. Post covid there was a ton of good cookware turning up cause so many peoples grandparents were dying and they didnt have time to figure...

      The only option in the US is to find them at thrift stores.

      Post covid there was a ton of good cookware turning up cause so many peoples grandparents were dying and they didnt have time to figure out that grannys measuring cups were real pyrex and even if they knew good luck finding a buyer in 2021 without having to learn how to ship things for Ebay.

      Lately though it’s kinda gone dry. Lots of people are unemployed and trying to make a living off thrift store finds right now.

      5 votes
  6. [2]
    Comment deleted by author
    Link
    1. updawg
      Link Parent
      Much of this article is about European businesses.

      Much of this article is about European businesses.

      2 votes