18 votes

Things chefs do that you should not do: Just say no to lemon zest, “ripping hot” pans, and the ice bath

19 comments

  1. [2]
    TheJorro
    Link
    This has to be the most obnoxious and condescending article I've read in a long time. I'm getting some serious Ignatius J. Reilly vibes from the author with how it's not about how he finds more...

    This has to be the most obnoxious and condescending article I've read in a long time. I'm getting some serious Ignatius J. Reilly vibes from the author with how it's not about how he finds more convenient subsititues, but that he's more correct than the professional chefs who he's supposed to be documenting. I know I'm supposed to be focusing on the content but the writing style is making me feel so irate with this guy.

    This line at the end of the intro gets me the most:

    Instead of featuring instructions for meticulously reproducing, say, your signature Wood-Roasted Scottish Grouse With Cloudberry Coulis and Confit Lily Bulbs, I venture, perhaps we can just show people how to roast a decent chicken.

    Why the fuck would I buy a cookbook to learn how to do this basic thing that can be found incredibly easily? If I wanted to roast a chicken, the knowledge is so widespread that I could probably trip over the recipe and instructions when just browsing for other recipes! Not to mention there's also a Good Eats episode about it because it's such a basic part of cooking. I get cookbooks exactly for recipes to meticulously reproduce signature Wood-Roasted Scottish Grouse With Cloudberry Coulis and Confit Lily Bulbs, not to learn how to roast a chicken for the hundredth fucking time.

    And yet this is what he wants to do when sent on a job. Later on he even bemoans that he goes along with the chefs to retain employment. And what is the nonsense about an ice bath needing so much room, it might as well be like getting a second floor on your house to deal with your child? It's a fucking bowl with ice water. Nothing wrong with a cold water rinse but why act like getting a bowl and filling it with ice water is an impossible task, and then use that as the basis to tell people not to do it? I live in a small condo too, it takes up a hell of a lot less room than the pot I use to make chicken stock!

    19 votes
    1. the_walrus
      Link Parent
      I had a problem with this too. I felt like the author didn't have any good reasons as to why you "should not" do some of these things. I mean, his argument against zest was essentially "You could...

      Nothing wrong with a cold water rinse but why act like getting a bowl and filling it with ice water is an impossible task, and then use that as the basis to tell people not to do it?

      I had a problem with this too. I felt like the author didn't have any good reasons as to why you "should not" do some of these things. I mean, his argument against zest was essentially "You could use lemon juice instead, so don't bother." The author being unable to discern the difference between the two doesn't prove that they are equivalent.

      The closest thing to a real argument in here was his point about ripping hot pans. I've definitely set off many a smoke alarm while cooking, even when everything was under control and nothing was burning or being overcooked. That's not to say one should never cook that way, just that it can present challenges in a home kitchen.

      4 votes
  2. [2]
    vakieh
    Link
    As someone who likes good steak, ripping hot pans are a must and this author is the co-author of what are probably the sort of cookbooks that should have been left as blog post compilations (aka...

    As someone who likes good steak, ripping hot pans are a must and this author is the co-author of what are probably the sort of cookbooks that should have been left as blog post compilations (aka the Taste brand in general). If you can't use a ripping hot pan without setting things on fire then you need to hang up the apron because you can't cook for shit. The trick is not to use american levels of oil.

    They then take their argument against lemon zest and flip it around in their favour for not using premade chicken stock with "because its utter thoughtlessness precludes excuses not to make it". Make up your mind - if you can use juice instead of zest why can't you use premade stock?

    10 votes
    1. NaraVara
      Link Parent
      I believe this is the point. The author would rather people cook a less good steak than hang up their apron and order take out.

      If you can't use a ripping hot pan without setting things on fire then you need to hang up the apron because you can't cook for shit.

      I believe this is the point. The author would rather people cook a less good steak than hang up their apron and order take out.

      4 votes
  3. [3]
    NaraVara
    Link
    Lemon zest gets the oil from the lemon peel rather than the juice. If you want to substitute out for zest you should use lemon water or essential oil. If they're using zest instead of juice they...

    If I want the taste of lemon, I'll add lemon juice.

    Lemon zest gets the oil from the lemon peel rather than the juice. If you want to substitute out for zest you should use lemon water or essential oil. If they're using zest instead of juice they probably don't want to be adding much acidity.

    7 votes
    1. [2]
      Bal
      Link Parent
      Your point makes sense, but I'd mention that in general you shouldn't use essential oils for cooking.

      Your point makes sense, but I'd mention that in general you shouldn't use essential oils for cooking.

      4 votes
      1. AnthonyB
        Link Parent
        Obviously, they're for curing cancer. What kind of IDIOT cooks with medicine?

        Obviously, they're for curing cancer. What kind of IDIOT cooks with medicine?

        3 votes
  4. NaraVara
    Link
    I'm not sure if cookbooks are the place to pick a fight on this. Most cookbooks aren't for everyday meals, they're for fancy time meals for company or special occasions. Day-to-day foods generally...

    I'm not sure if cookbooks are the place to pick a fight on this. Most cookbooks aren't for everyday meals, they're for fancy time meals for company or special occasions. Day-to-day foods generally should be quick and easy so you're not going to bother with things like ice-baths.

    There is also a bit of the old English teacher bit about how once you know the rules you can safely break them. As you get experience cooking you can figure out what to ignore. The important thing is to learn why the recipe asks for certain things and then you can decide for yourself if you actually care.

    7 votes
  5. [6]
    Micycle_the_Bichael
    Link
    Leading off: I'm far from a culinary expert. My palate is not refined, I don't know what to add to foods just by taste, and normally I mindlessly follow the recipe. However, there are a lot of...

    Leading off: I'm far from a culinary expert. My palate is not refined, I don't know what to add to foods just by taste, and normally I mindlessly follow the recipe. However, there are a lot of things (almost all touched on by this) that have saved me little bits of time and energy here and there, but add up to making cooking so much more enjoyable. Lemon zest is a perfect example. I stopped adding lemon zest to most recipes I cook. If I want the taste of lemon, I'll add lemon juice. but not taking the hyperbolic eons that it takes to zest a tablespoon of lemon zest makes recipes flow a lot easier and I find I don't feel as rushed or flustered. This definitely isn't universal and for people who love cooking probably won't agree. However, my main focus in the kitchen right now is "stop being lazy and ordering unhealthy foods on grub hub multiple times a week" and so small shortcuts like these make a lot of difference. Again, my personal opinion, I'm sure others have different experiences or opinions that are all valid too.

    3 votes
    1. [4]
      vakieh
      Link Parent
      You need a better zester. The one I have can zest an entire lemon in maybe 15 seconds. Not that you ever need more than 1/8 of a lemon unless you've cooking for a horde.

      the hyperbolic eons that it takes to zest a tablespoon of lemon zest

      You need a better zester. The one I have can zest an entire lemon in maybe 15 seconds. Not that you ever need more than 1/8 of a lemon unless you've cooking for a horde.

      6 votes
      1. [2]
        cfabbro
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        Yeah, agreed. If it's taking more than a fraction of a minute to get a tablespoon of zest the person is either doing something terribly wrong technique-wise or using the wrong tool. Speaking of...

        Yeah, agreed. If it's taking more than a fraction of a minute to get a tablespoon of zest the person is either doing something terribly wrong technique-wise or using the wrong tool.

        Speaking of which, IMO using a microplane is the best way to zest citrus fruits, and what's especially nice about it is that you can also use it to finely grate pretty much anything, e.g. garlic, hard cheese, ginger, horseradish, etc. And also, coincidentally, in yesterday's Bon Appétit video Chris Morocco covered how to properly zest using a microplane: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LyR8Nhzoxw#t=14m08s

        4 votes
        1. patience_limited
          Link Parent
          Totally agreed. In the pro bakery, I'd regularly have to zest a dozen lemons at a time for lemon curd or candied peel decorations. A microplane grater got the job done quickly and efficiently, at...

          Totally agreed. In the pro bakery, I'd regularly have to zest a dozen lemons at a time for lemon curd or candied peel decorations. A microplane grater got the job done quickly and efficiently, at about 15 seconds per whole lemon (approx. 2 tablespoons).

          There are a number of kitchen tasks made much simpler by having the right tools. The "ripping hot" pan is best made of well-seasoned cast iron, with a thermal mass high enough that it doesn't cool significantly when you add food to it for searing. Both a cast iron pan and a microplane grater are relatively inexpensive, versatile items that shouldn't be beyond the scope of a beginner's apartment kitchen.

          Honestly, though, I'll admit to the petty culinary snobbery that led me to dismiss the author summarily for mentioning his desire to keep an ice cube for his wine.

          2 votes
      2. just_a_salmon
        Link Parent
        Also, you can freeze unused zest.

        Also, you can freeze unused zest.

        2 votes
    2. patience_limited
      Link Parent
      There are recipes where lemon zest isn't substitutable. Generally, the fewer the ingredients, the more important subtle flavor distinctions become, so if a basic risotto with fresh vegetables...

      There are recipes where lemon zest isn't substitutable. Generally, the fewer the ingredients, the more important subtle flavor distinctions become, so if a basic risotto with fresh vegetables calls for lemon zest, use it.

      3 votes
  6. Rocket_Man
    Link
    I don't think this authors opinion is worth anything. They can't seem to taste anything judging by their recommendations. They also seem to be under the impression people follow steps in recipes...

    I don't think this authors opinion is worth anything. They can't seem to taste anything judging by their recommendations. They also seem to be under the impression people follow steps in recipes like robots without any brain of their own. People will choose if they want to use an ice bath, hot pan, or anything else.

    3 votes
  7. [4]
    tea_and_cats_please
    Link
    That's funny, I was just telling my brother the other day that I don't know what a bay leaf tastes like. I've never noticed its presence or absence. I put them in soups simply because I've been...

    That's funny, I was just telling my brother the other day that I don't know what a bay leaf tastes like. I've never noticed its presence or absence. I put them in soups simply because I've been lead to believe that that's what one does.

    That said, I don't think every cook book needs to be practical. Some can be practical, some can be fancy. Idk why the author feels the need to try to make every book practical. Just put an (optional) next to your lemon zest and call it a day.

    2 votes
    1. [3]
      tomf
      Link Parent
      Bay leaf is like a lot of things. It's such a subtle flavor that breaks up the heaviness of a dish -- much like a little vinegar in a chili or spaghetti sauce. Dried bay leaf is great, but even...

      Bay leaf is like a lot of things. It's such a subtle flavor that breaks up the heaviness of a dish -- much like a little vinegar in a chili or spaghetti sauce.

      Dried bay leaf is great, but even though it's dried, you still want it to be relatively fresh. If you've got a bag of them from god-knows-when, replace 'em. Fresh bay leaf is also good, but can be a little strong.

      By itself, bay leaf is sort of a mix of pepper and pine, almost like a light cologne, if that makes sense. :)

      6 votes
      1. [2]
        Akir
        Link Parent
        IIRC it also affect how you perceive the other flavors in the dish. It is a subtle difference, but it's a loud sort of subtle, if that makes any sense. Depending on your sensitivity, you may not...

        IIRC it also affect how you perceive the other flavors in the dish. It is a subtle difference, but it's a loud sort of subtle, if that makes any sense. Depending on your sensitivity, you may not notice it so much if you compare two dishes otherwise identical except for the abscence or presence of bay leaf, but if you've been eating dishes with bay leaf for a while and eat one without it, it will be missing the 'je ne sais quois'.

        3 votes
        1. tomf
          Link Parent
          definitely. Certain dishes without bay leaf just don't taste complete / balanced.

          definitely. Certain dishes without bay leaf just don't taste complete / balanced.

          2 votes