16 votes

New York Times angers Italians with "smoky tomato carbonara" recipe

40 comments

  1. joplin
    Link
    As an Italian-American, I simply don't give a shit. The author of the recipe has an Asian last name, and let's face it, Asian cuisine has seen a ton of bastardization over the years. So as far as...

    As an Italian-American, I simply don't give a shit. The author of the recipe has an Asian last name, and let's face it, Asian cuisine has seen a ton of bastardization over the years. So as far as I'm concerned, it's fair game. One of the objectors says this:

    It would be like putting salami in a cappuccino or mortadella in sushi. OK, fine, but then let’s not call it sushi...

    But we do. Ever heard of a Philly Roll? A California Roll? Those are all American bastardizations of sushi, and guess what? We still call them sushi, at least here in the US! If they don't want to call it that in Japan, that's their prerogative, but people are going to call it whatever they want to call it and you can't really stop them. I think the word "irregardless" is a stupid word, but people still say it. That's life.

    Cooking is an art, and as far as I'm concerned art is meant to be remixed, fused, etc. Same with music. Being a chef who only cooks authentic dishes is fine, if that's your thing. But as a consumer, I couldn't care less whether a dish is authentic. What I care about is how it tastes (and maybe whether it's healthy for me, depending on the context).

    39 votes
  2. [5]
    AnthonyB
    Link
    Oh yay, another "it's not authentic" food controversy! At least it's Italian food and no one cares about anti-Italian stereotypes, so we don't have to argue about whether it's racist or not. Eeey,...

    Oh yay, another "it's not authentic" food controversy! At least it's Italian food and no one cares about anti-Italian stereotypes, so we don't have to argue about whether it's racist or not. Eeey, little Anthony is gettin feisty over here! Badda Bing! Mafia! New Jersey!

    I wish everyone would chill out and accept the fact that people around the world will bastardize food to better fit the regional palate and common ingredients. It's not a big deal and it happens all over the world. Have you ever tasted shakshuka from the Philippines? Pizza in China? Canadian BBQ? My Russian stepmother's Thanksgiving cuisine? I have, and they weren't exactly authentic. ("We don't serve tzatziki with the turkey, mom. Where's the gravy?" - an exact quote from last year's Thanksgiving) Still, the locals seemed to like it, so why piss on their bonfire? Think of it as the food equivalent of an accent.

    NYT is a national paper with readers who span from coast to coast and from Duluth MN to whatever tiny little towns that occupy the southernmost tip of Texas. It's not easy to find guanciale or pecorino in a lot of cities and towns across the US and a lot of Americans enjoy bacon and parmesan. Madness.

    Edit: took a break between writing and posting and didn't see the comments above that are saying the same thing but better.

    22 votes
    1. streblo
      Link Parent
      Or even just American pizza. I can only imagine the reaction of an Italian comparing his margherita pizza to <insert-chain-pizza>'s extra cheese stuffed crust monstrosity. Not that I don't love...

      Pizza in China?

      Or even just American pizza. I can only imagine the reaction of an Italian comparing his margherita pizza to <insert-chain-pizza>'s extra cheese stuffed crust monstrosity. Not that I don't love those too but it's not like margherita pizza has been thrown by the wayside for people who want authenticity.

      8 votes
    2. [2]
      joplin
      Link Parent
      Not only that, but a lot of recipes that aren't well-known in a region may taste particularly odd to the locals at first. Having a bastardized version become popular will often cause a) more...

      I wish everyone would chill out and accept the fact that people around the world will bastardize food to better fit the regional palate and common ingredients.

      Not only that, but a lot of recipes that aren't well-known in a region may taste particularly odd to the locals at first. Having a bastardized version become popular will often cause a) more foreign recipes from the same place to become more popular locally, and b) local versions of the recipes to become more authentic over time.

      It's kind of like saying, "if you can't get it right the first time you play that Beethoven sonata, you shouldn't be playing that Beethoven sonata!" Yeah, what a great way to learn about Beethoven's music. Ugh.

      7 votes
      1. AnthonyB
        Link Parent
        Exactly! I was going to say something similar in my original comment but I was worried that I had already entered rambling territory. Those versions can be a good stepping stone towards the real...

        Not only that, but a lot of recipes that aren't well-known in a region may taste particularly odd to the locals at first. Having a bastardized version become popular will often cause a) more foreign recipes from the same place to become more popular locally, and b) local versions of the recipes to become more authentic over time.

        Exactly! I was going to say something similar in my original comment but I was worried that I had already entered rambling territory. Those versions can be a good stepping stone towards the real thing. I noticed something like that happen with Vietnamese food and pho over the last 10 years or so. About 10 years ago I worked with a bunch of South Asian people and one of my friends introduced me to bun bo hue, which I loved. When I left that job and moved to a state in the middle of the country, it seemed impossible to find even as bougie pho places were popping up left and right. Now it seems like I can find it just about anywhere. People just need to dip a toe in first.

        3 votes
    3. guts
      Link Parent
      I'm Mexican and i was blown away by a Mexican recipe of Tacos de Birria i cooked on an Instant Pot by the blog Amy and Jack (they are not Mexicans), my GF was confused with the procedure and odd...

      I'm Mexican and i was blown away by a Mexican recipe of Tacos de Birria i cooked on an Instant Pot by the blog Amy and Jack (they are not Mexicans), my GF was confused with the procedure and odd ingredients of the recipe that it made her so skeptical. Later she confessed is one of the best Mexican Tacos de Birria she ever had, and now she cooks it by her own. I also recommend their Cheesecake recipe, the best i had.

      5 votes
  3. [9]
    babypuncher
    Link
    At first glance this seems like a really dumb thing for people to complain about. But I'm not a chef or a "foodie", so I have no expertise in the field. Then I remember that time The Verge tried...

    At first glance this seems like a really dumb thing for people to complain about. But I'm not a chef or a "foodie", so I have no expertise in the field.

    Then I remember that time The Verge tried to show us how to build a computer and now I'm guessing this is a pretty similar situation.

    15 votes
    1. [8]
      wycy
      Link Parent
      I just watched this video. What exactly was wrong? Is it just the silliness of the anti-static bracelet, or...?

      I just watched this video. What exactly was wrong? Is it just the silliness of the anti-static bracelet, or...?

      2 votes
      1. [4]
        pseudolobster
        Link Parent
        I've just rewatched it with a really nitpicky eye and here's what I've noticed. 0.11 - "You can build a gaming PC for around a thousand bucks, but I decided to go all out and got one for $2000...

        I've just rewatched it with a really nitpicky eye and here's what I've noticed.

        0.11 - "You can build a gaming PC for around a thousand bucks, but I decided to go all out and got one for $2000 [...] A PC like this will be able to play most games on ultra settings."

        • I remember this got backlash for being overly simplified. At the time this came out you could pretty easily build a PC for under $1000 that was capable of playing most games on ultra at low resolutions. Meanwhile going "all out" for gaming enthusiasts typically means multiple high-refresh 4k monitors and spending $2000 on your graphics card alone.

        0.25 - "You need a table, preferably not metal. If it's going to be metal, use an antistatic mat on top"

        • I remember this being controversial, saying if you're using a metal table, just touch the table and it will discharge any static, so if you have a metal table you don't need any further anti-static precautions. There was a lot of debate on this.

        0.33 - "A thermal paste applicator, an alan wrench, tweezers to tidy up the wires, a swiss army knife that hopefully has a philips head screwdriver in it, and last but not least an antistatic bracelet which is to protect you and the parts"

        • The thermal paste applicator is never used in the video, and later on his application of thermal paste in the end leaves a lot to be desired. People say you shouldn't use these anyway since they can create bubbles. After decades of debates and testing, people have settled on a single pea-sized blob in the centre of the CPU's heatspreader.
        • The alan wrench is never used in the video, and is almost never used in a PC build.
        • The "tweezers" are called zip ties, cable ties, zap straps, etc, but never "tweezers".
        • The swiss army knife is really an awful choice for a screwdriver. It's short and stubby so it can't get into tight spaces, it's awkward and will try to fold, it's probably not magnetic so you've got to hold the screws in place, and it's got a big old knife attached to it making it annoying to turn it like a corkscrew. It seems like he realized this during filming and the knife is never seen or mentioned again.
        • And last but not least the antistatic bracelet, which is a regular silicone bracelet, not an anti-static one. Antistatic bracelets have a long wire of some description coming off of them so you can clip them to an electrical ground. This is how they dissipate static electricity. Some silicone bracelets like these are sold claiming they have mystical powers. They either balance your energy somehow or they have negative ions* etc. It's possible he mistook one of these quack devices as antistatic because it claimed something to do with energy. This is just speculation. Anyway, there's a lot of debate about how necessary these bracelets are anyway. Then he says "These not only protect you", well, they don't protect you from anything. They only protect the parts. That's just a silly thing to say.

        The next section from 0.53 to 1.58 where he explains components is mostly fine, but there's some awkward writing in there, some of which is confusing or nonsensical, like: "If you're building a budget build for video streaming, say for under $1000, you want to focus on parts. Like a core i5 or core i3 processor. That require less energy. They'll be less powerful, but then you'll be able to scale back the cost of several other parts." Most people don't really care about power consumption. The reason they'd buy those parts is they're cheaper. Then, how does them being less powerful allow you to scale back other parts? You'd think by scrimping on a CPU you could use that to get a better GPU for encoding, no?

        2.50 - He calls the I/O shield "the brace", which is not a term that is normally used. He has a habit of making up names for things he doesn't know the word for. It might be a good idea to mention at this point that the ones that come with cheap motherboards are razor sharp so be careful, instead he just says use a lot of force.

        3.09 - The standoffs have been installed in the case at some point between cuts without mentioning it so if anyone was actually following this video to build their first PC they could be shorting their board to the side of the case. It's also at this point most people would mount the CPU and cooler while the board is outside the case.

        3.50 - Should mention something about dual channel at this point. If this is a howto video for newbies, they're definitely just going to stick the ram into two random slots rather than the two specific slots they need to go in.

        5.22 - I've skipped a bunch because this is fatiguing, but at 5.22 he says "Make sure the power supply lines up with these insulating pads so that the power supply doesn't short circuit or come into contact with the rest of the system"

        • Not all cases have these insulating pads.
        • They're vibration dampeners, not insulators.
        • The power supply is supposed to come into contact with the case so that they share common ground. This will be achieved through the screw threads anyway, regardless of "insulating pads"

        6.20 - "Every power supply is going to come with a big bag of velcro cables"

        • I don't know what velcro cables are, but only modular supplies come with separate cables, and only high end modular ones come with them in a velcro bag like that.

        7:13 - He throws away the CPU socket cover. It's worth keeping that in case you ever need to RMA your board.

        7.15 - "Now we have an exposed.. CPU... holder... or rather, slot on the motherboard"

        • I feel bad for this kid, and this feels like a cheap shot, that I'm being pedantic, etc, but it's very specifically called a socket.

        8.22 - "coolers already come with paste but it's good practice to use extra"

        • This is really frustrating. If you don't know what you're doing just use the paste that comes with the cooler. If you want 0.5 degrees of extra cooling for overclocking, buy fancy paste and use that to replace the default stuff. Using too much is counterproductive. The multiple blobs he puts all over the CPU are not best practice either. Like I said, pea sized amount in the centre. At 8.35 you can see massive voids that are going to be air bubbles when he puts the cooler on.

        I have really lost my enthusiasm for watching the rest of this video. I could point out a few dozen other little nitpicky things but the gist of it is the kid is just too inexperienced to be teaching others. The creators and editors of this video, also clearly have little to no PC building experience or some of this might have been caught before it was put up.

        14 votes
        1. wycy
          Link Parent
          Yikes, well fair enough, I suppose there are a lot of silly bits and incredibly imprecise language. If I didn't know how to build a computer and I watched this, I think I'd likely still...

          Yikes, well fair enough, I suppose there are a lot of silly bits and incredibly imprecise language. If I didn't know how to build a computer and I watched this, I think I'd likely still successfully build it--though missing the motherboard standoffs is kind of a major oversight that really could mess everything up.

          3 votes
        2. [2]
          DanBC
          Link Parent
          The advice is confusing, and wrong, because it's mashing together a few different concepts without a clear understanding. Anti-static mats serve a few purposes: 1) they dissipate static...

          0.25 - "You need a table, preferably not metal. If it's going to be metal, use an antistatic mat on top"

          I remember this being controversial, saying if you're using a metal table, just touch the table and it will discharge any static, so if you have a metal table you don't need any further anti-static precautions. There was a lot of debate on this.

          The advice is confusing, and wrong, because it's mashing together a few different concepts without a clear understanding.

          Anti-static mats serve a few purposes: 1) they dissipate static electricity 2) they protect against short circuiting electronics that are powered on 3) they protect the surface you're working on 4) they protect the things you're working on

          1. Static electricity builds up on non-conductive surfaces. It needs to be discharged or it can damage some electronic components. Electrostatic discharge is unlikely to damage PC components, but if you're building PCs for a living you might want to reduce the possibility of damage. Anti-static mats have a conductive layer and a static-dissipative layer on top. (Older or cheaper forms don't have the dissipative layer). You connect the mat to a grounding point, which connects to your mains grounding via a high value resistor. It's important to do this correctly or you risk electrocution.

          Metal tables don't build up static. Sometimes their feet do, and the metal conducts that static.

          Touching the table doesn't do anything to dissipate static from the table unless the person touching the table is grounded.

          1. Sometimes you'll want to power on a PCB when it's out of an enclosure. This risks short circuiting (and damaging) components if your table is conductive. A static mat with a static dissipative layer protects against this.

          Source: spent 15 years building safety critical electronic equipment.

          NASA as always have incredibly detailed documents:

          https://standards.nasa.gov/file/284/download?token=EQWVblI0

          https://nepp.nasa.gov/DocUploads/9220611A-6EAA-426D-A60A74EF7A16E40E/ESDWhitePaper.pdf

          1 vote
          1. pseudolobster
            Link Parent
            Agreed. Antistatic mats have a purpose, and if you're manufacturing PCBs or doing a ton of work on bare components, especially if you live in a dry climate, it's certainly worth owning one. For...

            Agreed. Antistatic mats have a purpose, and if you're manufacturing PCBs or doing a ton of work on bare components, especially if you live in a dry climate, it's certainly worth owning one. For building your first PC though, it's probably unnecessary.

            The idea behind the table is it's probably a better conductor to ground than you are. When you get a static zap from touching a doorknob in the winter, it's you discharging into the knob, not the knob discharging into you. You're a big capacitor because your feet are insulated. The knob being a good conductor attached to the door frame is a better path to ground than your socks through the carpet. A hypothetical metal desk would do the same.

            Anyway, it's moot since I don't know anyone who owns a metal desk. The closest I can think of is in mechanics shops they often have steel workbenches. It's just a weird piece of advice the video claims is vitally important for your first PC build.

            1 vote
      2. [2]
        SheepWolf
        Link Parent
        This comedic video from Bitwit reacting to the The Verge video usually follows to help illustrate some of the things people like to pick on about the original video:...

        This comedic video from Bitwit reacting to the The Verge video usually follows to help illustrate some of the things people like to pick on about the original video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vmQOO4WLI4

        4 votes
      3. Grzmot
        Link Parent
        Watching this supercut of people reacting to it will tell you everything you need to know: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-2Scfj4FZk TL;DR: He did everything wrong, like every single step in the...

        Watching this supercut of people reacting to it will tell you everything you need to know: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-2Scfj4FZk

        TL;DR: He did everything wrong, like every single step in the playbook the man got wrong. if you build a pc like this it probably will not post, will not run optimally and will probably die in a couple of months. The fact that it was uploaded by a publication claiming to run a tech news website is laughable.

        4 votes
  4. NaraVara
    Link
    Isn't the point of carbonara that it was something tasty coal miners could make out of the nearly stale, long-shelf-life stuff in the pantry? That's the whole point of the salted pork, hard...

    Isn't the point of carbonara that it was something tasty coal miners could make out of the nearly stale, long-shelf-life stuff in the pantry? That's the whole point of the salted pork, hard cheese, and an egg instead of cream to thicken.

    Getting fussy about making sure it's the right kind of cheese seems to be missing the spirit of the dish. Plus, bacon is a pretty common substitution among Italian Americans so it's not really 'inauthentic' in that sense either.

    15 votes
  5. [5]
    knocklessmonster
    Link
    I feel like The Guardian is being disingenuous to write an appropriation outrage article. From the recipe, two important things that I think make Kay Chun out to be mostly innocent: She...

    I feel like The Guardian is being disingenuous to write an appropriation outrage article.

    From the recipe, two important things that I think make Kay Chun out to be mostly innocent:

    It's traditionally made with Parmesan, eggs, guanciale (cured pork) and black pepper, but this version uses bacon, since it’s widely available and lends a nice smoky note.

    Tomatoes are not traditional in carbonara, but they lend a bright tang to the dish.

    She acknowledges the differences between her recipe and the traditional recipe. I see no problem. Making a substitution for a more available ingredient, and acknowledging the intentional and transparently non-traditional addition of another ingredient isn't a sin. If we're doing that, we should take down Alton Brown for his Turbo Hummus recipe, which substitutes peanut butter for tahini, trading out a traditional ingredient for the most American of fatty seed pastes.

    13 votes
    1. [4]
      krg
      Link Parent
      Absolutely. The article is only a few paragraphs, and from what I gather ... 3? ... people seemed slightly miffed? This is fluffy non-journalism designed to spark some flames. Although a minor...

      I feel like The Guardian is being disingenuous to write an appropriation outrage article.

      Absolutely. The article is only a few paragraphs, and from what I gather ... 3? ... people seemed slightly miffed? This is fluffy non-journalism designed to spark some flames. Although a minor example, these types of half-assed articles really do a number on cordial discourse, I think.

      For dinner, I'm making a risotto with sushi rice (as described in this recipe). Big whoop.

      5 votes
      1. [3]
        streblo
        Link Parent
        That looks pretty good! I love a good Risotto. Is there a weekly "What's cooking" tildes thread? There should be... @Deimos?

        That looks pretty good! I love a good Risotto.

        Is there a weekly "What's cooking" tildes thread? There should be... @Deimos?

        4 votes
        1. [2]
          krg
          Link Parent
          Hey, that's not a bad idea! Been doing a whole lotta cookin' these past few months, so it'd be nice to show off. Though... my food photography skills are lacking and the food always looks a lot...

          Hey, that's not a bad idea! Been doing a whole lotta cookin' these past few months, so it'd be nice to show off.

          Though... my food photography skills are lacking and the food always looks a lot worse than it actually is.

          4 votes
          1. Thra11
            Link Parent
            Yeah. I sometimes think it would be nice to have a scheduled topic related to cooking. Encourage people to post something they made with a recipe and a bit of discussion of how it turned out,...

            Yeah. I sometimes think it would be nice to have a scheduled topic related to cooking. Encourage people to post something they made with a recipe and a bit of discussion of how it turned out, etc., but maybe leave it fairly open so people can post about interesting food they bought too.

            Tildes isn't great for images (intentionally, I believe), but it's nice to see pictures of peoples food. Is there an image host you'd recommend?

            2 votes
  6. [8]
    eve
    (edited )
    Link
    I definitely can understand the frustration behind this. Instead of calling it a carbonara, you could call it an -ish dish (carbonara ish) or a smokey tomato pasta and mention it's based around...

    I definitely can understand the frustration behind this. Instead of calling it a carbonara, you could call it an -ish dish (carbonara ish) or a smokey tomato pasta and mention it's based around carbonara, or even just look of there's an actual dish similar to the one the recipe maker made.

    I also wanted to mention the small thing at the end about the NY Times calling yorkshire pudding an effing pancake? To eat whenever? That's disgusting lmao especially since it's made with roasts and a staple is the drippings from the meat. I don't want to eat that for breakfast. Is it surprising that the NYT is so off base?.... Eeeeeeeh they seem pretty mixed with this kind of stuff, but it's still kinda embarrassing (to me at least. I'm sure there's plenty of people who definitely don't care).

    7 votes
    1. etiolation
      Link Parent
      That yorkshire pudding gaffe is even more egregious! It proves conclusively that robots are writing these suggestions. Recipe titling is a fascinating communicative act. I get the desire to relate...

      That yorkshire pudding gaffe is even more egregious! It proves conclusively that robots are writing these suggestions.

      Recipe titling is a fascinating communicative act. I get the desire to relate new creations to familiar or hip classic dishes, but wouldn't scare quotes go a long way toward avoiding the situation happening here? I see things like "Pumpkin Seed 'Pesto' " a lot.

      It's time to dust off this old cooking video.

      5 votes
    2. [6]
      streblo
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      For what it's worth, this is the actual recipe. It doesn't really seem that egregious? When I make Yorkshire pudding I usually add some of the beef fat/drippings and obviously there is none of...

      I also wanted to mention the small thing at the end about the NY Times calling yorkshire pudding an effing pancake?

      For what it's worth, this is the actual recipe. It doesn't really seem that egregious? When I make Yorkshire pudding I usually add some of the beef fat/drippings and obviously there is none of that in these. There is also sugar and nutmeg in the pastry.

      2 votes
      1. [5]
        eve
        Link Parent
        I can't say much since I can't view the recipe. It looks like the title is "Dutch Baby" instead of yorkshire pudding? They're both pretty similar. But I'm biased with yorkshire pudding as it's...

        I can't say much since I can't view the recipe. It looks like the title is "Dutch Baby" instead of yorkshire pudding? They're both pretty similar. But I'm biased with yorkshire pudding as it's been a familial holiday staple and thinking of having that texture with something sweet instead bothers me haha.

        3 votes
        1. [4]
          streblo
          Link Parent
          Sorry I always forget about the paywall. It is essentially a sweet yorkshire recipe but it's not titled as such and with no beef drippings and the added sugar/nutmeg it's different enough that I...

          Sorry I always forget about the paywall.

          It is essentially a sweet yorkshire recipe but it's not titled as such and with no beef drippings and the added sugar/nutmeg it's different enough that I don't know why the BBC would choose to generate controversy over nothing. Lot's of pastry can be considered similar if you just look at a list of ingredients.

          2 votes
          1. eve
            Link Parent
            Far less egregious than I thought, thank you. I wonder if they chose to nitpick because of the popularity of the dish? For sure, as a base, lots of pastries are very similar. But people can get...

            Far less egregious than I thought, thank you. I wonder if they chose to nitpick because of the popularity of the dish?

            For sure, as a base, lots of pastries are very similar. But people can get weird when it comes to food and differences, depending on how close they are to it all.

            2 votes
          2. [2]
            NaraVara
            Link Parent
            I know why. . .

            I don't know why the BBC would choose to generate controversy over nothing

            I know why. . .

            2 votes
            1. streblo
              Link Parent
              Fair enough, fixed :P.

              Fair enough, fixed :P.

              "I don't know why the BBC would choose to trade in it's reputation for clicks so frivolously ".

              4 votes
  7. [3]
    Good_Apollo
    Link
    It’s always interesting when foodies and chefs who constantly talk about breaking boundaries and cooking “with no limits” then cry foul and gatekeep. Pretentious is the word here, and it’s apt. I...

    It’s always interesting when foodies and chefs who constantly talk about breaking boundaries and cooking “with no limits” then cry foul and gatekeep.

    Pretentious is the word here, and it’s apt.

    I recall the late Anthony Bourdain once remarking that the Chicken McNugget was “the most disgusting thing he had ever eaten”. This was said with no sense of irony from a man who had once eaten improperly cleaned wild game intestine that was only lightly roasted in an open sandy pit.

    So put tomatoes in carbonara. If it tastes good to someone, who cares?

    7 votes
    1. [2]
      TheJorro
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      I think Bourdain was actually exaggerating for humour there. Nobody seems to have the original source for where he said this so we can examine the tone but considering how often he joked when...

      I think Bourdain was actually exaggerating for humour there. Nobody seems to have the original source for where he said this so we can examine the tone but considering how often he joked when making statements like this, it seems like a safe bet. When asked about it:

      You once said that the most disgusting thing you've ever eaten was a Chicken McNugget. Do you think the warthog asshole was worse than that?

      AB: Given the choice between reliving the warthog experience and eating a McNugget, I'm surely eating the McNugget. But at least I knew what the warthog was. Whereas with the McNugget, I think that's still an open question. Scientists are still wondering.

      https://tv.avclub.com/anthony-bourdain-1798213062

      This is, after all, the same guy who had a Dessert section in one of his books that basically said "Fuck dessert. OK, I don't mean that, but eat cheese instead." Pretty much every absolutist opinion he delivered had some sense of irony, but he was actually pretty big on twists and variations to traditional recipes as seen throughout all of his shows.

      8 votes
      1. Good_Apollo
        Link Parent
        Eh I picked it because it was funny. But seriously my point was there’s just no end to pretentiousness in the food world. I don’t get hung up on it and I’m a pretty by-the-books eater most of the...

        Eh I picked it because it was funny. But seriously my point was there’s just no end to pretentiousness in the food world.

        I don’t get hung up on it and I’m a pretty by-the-books eater most of the time.

        4 votes
  8. [6]
    TheJorro
    (edited )
    Link
    Lots of responses from people outside of Italy, but since this article seems to be talking about responses from professionals in Italy (an increasingly rare article that isn't passing off five...

    Lots of responses from people outside of Italy, but since this article seems to be talking about responses from professionals in Italy (an increasingly rare article that isn't passing off five random people on Twitter as "everyone") who have a stake in this, is there anyone from Italy that can chime in? I feel like if there's something I've picked up about Italian chefs and cooks, it's that they take the traditionalism and simplicity of their recipes deathly seriously. Of course, this is an assumption from someone who's only been exposed to it through the abstracted layers of media, so who knows how much of that is actually real.

    I watched a video recently where Jamie Oliver went to an Italian fish market and tried to cook fish there with some lemon and thyme and the fishmongers straight up stopped him from using their grill mid-shoot. There was also this meme video recently of Italians reacting quite strongly to pineapple on pizza, which left quite an impression on me as someone that actually likes pineapple on pizza.

    6 votes
    1. [3]
      frostycakes
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      Wow, that video... I'm sorry, but what a bunch of assholes. Cursing out a delivery guy like that, regardless of how much of an "insult" the topping is, is just insanely rude. Is it that hard to...

      Wow, that video... I'm sorry, but what a bunch of assholes. Cursing out a delivery guy like that, regardless of how much of an "insult" the topping is, is just insanely rude. Is it that hard to just say "No, this isn't what I ordered, I'd like the pizza I actually ordered please" instead of cursing out the guy, throwing the damn thing in his face, and calling him a piece of shit? Over food? For my local flavor, if I order a dish with green chile (expecting it to be the pork-based stew style we do locally) and get something covered in NM style red chile sauce, I'd be disappointed, but I'd never think of throwing the damn thing in the delivery guy's face. A simple "hey, this isn't what I ordered" and a call to the restaurant to find out what happened is what would come. If they couldn't take it back? Guess I'm keeping it and throwing it away if I find it unpalatable, and, again, calling the restaurant to get it fixed.

      I don't care how "traditional" one is, I'm pretty sure assault and flagrant disrespect of someone who, if we're taking the setup at face value, only know the guy is the delivery boy and not the owner or chef, aren't supposed to be traditional either. I'll take chefs whinging pretentiously about the authenticity any day over those absolute fucks in that video. I see a gaggle of people who deserve assault and battery charges in this, in all honesty. Especially if they're not in on the prank. That is disgusting and unacceptable behavior from anyone, regardless of how mad a choice of pizza topping makes you.

      4 votes
      1. [2]
        Greg
        Link Parent
        I comfort myself by choosing to believe that they either filmed 100 people politely declining in order to find three sufficient assholes to hit 1M+ views on YouTube, or the pizza place knew...

        I comfort myself by choosing to believe that they either filmed 100 people politely declining in order to find three sufficient assholes to hit 1M+ views on YouTube, or the pizza place knew exactly which customers would treat drivers like shit even at the best of times, and this was a good way to get back at them.

        3 votes
        1. frostycakes
          Link Parent
          If it's the latter, I'd say short of ending the video with a shot of that last woman getting a ticket/arrested, then nobody got back at them.

          If it's the latter, I'd say short of ending the video with a shot of that last woman getting a ticket/arrested, then nobody got back at them.

    2. [2]
      bkimmel
      Link Parent
      Reminds me of something I saw a while back where they tried to sue to stop manufacturers in the US from calling their cheese "parmigiana". In the modern "brand is everything" age where a lot of...

      Reminds me of something I saw a while back where they tried to sue to stop manufacturers in the US from calling their cheese "parmigiana". In the modern "brand is everything" age where a lot of Italian economy (especially exports) depends on differentiation/perception around those things you can sort of see why they'd get wound up about that stuff.

      2 votes
      1. PetitPrince
        Link Parent
        Moreover, many European countries applies geographical legal protection to some of their most known food products (that's why champagne is from Champagne); parmigiano-reggiano is one such product.

        Moreover, many European countries applies geographical legal protection to some of their most known food products (that's why champagne is from Champagne); parmigiano-reggiano is one such product.

        5 votes
  9. MonkeyPants
    Link
    This inspired me to cook Smoky Tomato Carbonara last night. Except I didn't have any dry spaghetti, and I need to fix my spaghetti maker, so I bastardized the recipe even further and used dry...

    This inspired me to cook Smoky Tomato Carbonara last night.

    Except I didn't have any dry spaghetti, and I need to fix my spaghetti maker, so I bastardized the recipe even further and used dry macaroni instead.

    It got mixed reviews in my house, but I liked it.

    5 votes
  10. streblo
    Link
    I actually quite enjoy NYT Cooking -- I subscribe to the app and have made a bunch of their recipes. Maybe this is a misstep by Chun, but to me it's just another entry on a very long list of food...

    I actually quite enjoy NYT Cooking -- I subscribe to the app and have made a bunch of their recipes. Maybe this is a misstep by Chun, but to me it's just another entry on a very long list of food bastardizations -- of which Italians are already surely familiar with. Jumping on someone now is just trying to close a door on a horse that has already bolted.

    3 votes