I'm addicted to Slay the Spire and am looking for a new game
So, for about 3 years now, the only game I pretty much play has been Slay the Spire. I have about 650 hours on the first game and almost 400 hours on the 2nd one (which came out in march of this year...). I recently beat (again) A20 with all 4 characters and A10 on all 5 characters in STS2.
I have tried playing other roguelikes, but I always come back to StS because it's the only one that is 1) a difficult enough challenge 2) fun 3) turn based combat 4) intellectually challenging 5) playable with a controller
I tried Balatro, Dicey Dungeons, Slice and Dice, Darkest Dungeon, Vampire Crawlers, Brotato, TFT, Binding of Isaac, Hades, Gungeon...
I liked them all, but none of them provide all my 5 criteria, really.
You guys have any recommendations?
Would recommend Monster Train 1 or 2! The creators clearly loved Slay the Spire but these games add a great lane mechanic where you're playing creature cards across three areas to hold off the enemy. Lots of fun synergies to discover too.
My husband’s gaming hot take is that Monster Train is better than Slay the Spire.
He bought the first game three different times (Switch, Steam, mobile) and 100%ed it on each. He also thinks the sequel is even better than the first and has put untold hours into it.
I honestly agree with that take. I had an intense two weeks with StS but I come back to Monster Train over and over. It's comfort food.
That Co-OP of StS2 though... That's just not in MT.
Ah, I should have added MT. I did play it! In fact, it's the only games that scratched the itch.
MT2 is awesome.
Give Inkbound a look if you liked Monster Train (it’s by the same devs).
It takes the StS/MT formula and gives it an ARPG-style twist. Combat is still turn-based, and you still have full information on what’s going to happen each turn so you can plan accordingly.
I loved it.
It's great, but also a dead game. But the co-op works very well.
Agreed on the co-op, but I also had a ton of fun (arguably even more?) playing it solo.
Have you tried into the breach? I enjoyed that game a lot.
Or faster than light! I love FTL really great game. Good unlocks, repayable. Just enough customizing. Really nice time.
Plus one for FTL! Love that game
FTL has the pause button where you can plan out moves, so a turn based play style would be kinda interesting...
I did yeah, but it kinda sucks with the controller. :/
That particular set of criteria is hard to meet. StS is unique in the market for having a huge amount of time dedicated to balance in development, particularly by singleplayer standards. The rest are doable, but tricky in combination with being difficult. Still, here are some suggestions a bit off the beaten path:
Grail: Recently released online deckbuilder auto battler that has both PvE and PvP fights, where the goal is to win 6+ rounds before losing 4 rounds. There are some balance issues (disclaimer: I'm probably their top player by overall winrate), but it takes time before they're evident. Doesn't support a controller natively, but all that's needed is mouse movement and left/right click, and very rarely Ctrl, things that I'd be willing to tolerate Steam Input on controller to handle if I had to. I've been sinking a ton of time into this recently because it has a lot of similarities to a game I've been solo developing over the last few years.
(AI Art) Mori Carta: I'm highly experienced at card games, probably approaching 10k+ hours in them across all subgenres. I have yet to win a single run on the full difficulty mode of Mori Carta in 25 hours of play, though I have gotten to the final boss several times. This game taxes your ability to survive early while finding a way to outscale late game, and its very difficult to do both. Genre is deckbuilder auto battler, where you build a deck and combine it with the enemy's deck, drawing one card at a time and deciding between two consequences via swiping left or right, but it uses standard mechanics like HP, Energy, Attack/Block, and so on.
Chrono Ark: I got burnt out on this during Early Access when they started focusing on story, but its a well regarded game with a decently high level of difficulty (play on Expert ASAP), and is arguably best played with controller. No comment on the DLCs or their pandering, but the base game doesn't have as much of that. This is a team based deck builder with otherwise pretty standard combat, where the focus is on distributing level ups to the team, drafting cards/stat bonuses, and managing equipment bonuses. There's a moderate focus on story and alternate paths/secrets.
Touhou Lost Branch of Legend: StS clone that borrows from a MtG-style mana system, but the production values are high and balance is decent, though not as balanced as StS long term. There are a lot of modifiers to customize difficulty (~7 ascensions paired with 4 difficulty settings, plus mods akin to the Custom/Daily options in StS), and there are five characters which each have two starting deck/relic options. While technically still under development, the pace is glacial at this point and I'd consider it complete as-is. Supports controller, though I have no experience using one with this game.
Dream Quest: This is to StS what Magic Survival was to Vampire Survivors, the game most forget about when thinking about what popularized a genre. There's an unfortunate amount of metaprogression (which can be bypassed through save editing), but even when that's taken care of, winning a full run is quite difficult with most of the characters. Features art from the developer's daughter, so don't expect much there. Doesn't support a controller natively, but only needs mouse and left click, so Steam Input can cover it.
Second Second: Also on mobile, but doesn't natively support a controller. This is a niche title that is a bit unclear at first mechanically, but that I happened to like. Plays out over a timeline, and your card plays cost varying amounts of timeline. This game was an experiment in procedurally generated AI/decks, and while it didn't fully succeed there, there's a lot of difficulty customization available.
I'm surprised to read that Monster Train as a series clears your bar for difficult, as I found that lack of difficulty was the major flaw with those games.
Wow!
I appreciate the thought-out post so much, thank you for taking the time to write it out. I've tried two options that were mentionned in the thread already, but I feel like I should have mentionned deckbuilding in my criteria because it is important for me. Those two games didn't fit the bill.
I see that all your suggestions have some kind of deckbuilding in it so I'll definitely check those out.
Do you have a personnal favorite? One you think could stand the test of time as StS does?
As for your comment on Monster Train, I feel like the 2nd game was more difficult than the first. But you're right, you can get crazy OP stuff in MT that kinda break the run and I kinda dislike being OP.
The funny thing is, StS1 didn't especially grab my attention. While I like a finely tuned and difficult game, I also like exploring new gameplay concepts, and StS1 felt stale to me even back during its Early Access. I've sunk more time into StS2, but a major part of that is the co-op play, bringing a new player through the Ascension 10 challenge on each character.
As for a card game that stands the test of time? I find they largely don't, which is why I've spent so much time jumping from one to another since the 90s. But the journey to get to the point where the balance falls apart, or die off for reasons unrelated, or get ruined by the trappings of multiplayer metagames, etc is fun. Looking over my Steam list specifically, I'd be hard pressed to recommend any deck builder not already mentioned for you.
But looking did remind me of Prismata, a now free-to-play game that has "cards" but plays more like a turn-based RTS would, where the available "card" supply is different every game (like the tabletop game Dominion kinda), but instead of building a deck you're doing RTS-style openings of developing economy while also threatening the opponent's economy until one side loses all their cards. I'd strongly suggest avoiding PvP as there's a massive skill gap issue with it, but playing against the provided bot support is good fun until your skill exceeds the best bots. Many players never get that good since its a complex game.
I've alluded to this in a few other assorted Tildes threads, but I've got a history of being burned when I get too invested in gaming communities, and it motivated me to start making a deckbuilder game of my own a few years ago. I'm considering the idea of making a thread asking for help on Tildes, because what I've made so far is a complete, functional, and diverse game but one that needs major help with things like UI and art assets before I'd feel comfortable distributing and/or selling it. In the past I've done playtests over Discord streams, but since I'm done with Discord as a platform that's not the easy solution it once may have been. I'm still mulling over whether its a good idea or not to resume development...
Well... this years ~creative.timasomo should be up soon iirc, so maybe you could bring your game to that event?
I generally don't like card games, there is something about the need to learn vs the amount of relaxation/distraction I want from gaming that doesn't really do it for me.
With that said I do love play testing and fiddling and breaking stuff and I'm quite opinionated around UX, etc so I'd totally chip in as a playtester :)
Wasn't familiar with that yearly event, having a fairly new account here. A quick look at the rules suggests its more formal/committal than I could do.
I appreciate the show of interest though. Health permitting (big if here), I'm hoping to revisit development soon, and I've started looking for sustainable assets to replace my current art - I've tried "placeholder", blank, and "AI" previously. This was originally a prototype for fun that expanded into a large project (>500 cards, competent non-cheating AI player support, etc) and not something I went in with the intent to market to anyone other than myself.
One issue I'd have to solve before considering any sort of playtest is that the middleware I use is not known for its effective DRM, so anyone who had the game could easily claim the project files themselves. I wouldn't mind that as much once I had a build meant for release. But perhaps I'll consider an option such as Steam Remote Play in the interim.
Still thinking about it, to tl;dr the above.
One Step From Eden is “StS that plays like Megaman Battle Network”.
It is absolutely my favorite roguelike, but it fails the Turn Based part.
I do think that One Step From Eden might be the only game that got me playing quite as much as slay the spire did. It is soooo good, they also have a (free I think) online battle platform. I didn't realize how much I liked Megaman Battle Network style gameplay until I played OSFE.
Umamusume: PretPokémon Emerald Rogue? If you don't like Pokémon for all the babby JRPG-isms, it strips it all down to a very meaty roguelite gameplay core. Cool use of GBA tech.Tried this last night and it's pretty cool! A very different experience than standard Pokémon games.
Combolands is a new one in that space that's really fun. It's not as long as STS (yet), but it's really fun.
I've just put 11 hours in since last week, very fun. It has a good pace and rewards planning.
Cobalt Core is a pretty good card game with some shared mechanics as Slay the Spire. The unique draw is kind of the silly humor and how you use lanes to dictate damage/avoidance/etc. which I find simple to understand, but can be clever if you want it to be.
Currently listed as overwhelmingly positive and you can expect it to last you at least a good 20 hours for the credits to roll. Support indie devs!
Seconding this. Cobalt Core is excellent, and it features enough familiar mechanics to scratch the StS itch while having its own unique identity and spin on things that makes it feel fresh.
I have never seen System Requirements like this on Steam before.
One more vote for it. I really need to go back and beat it a few nore times to finish unlocking all the flashbacks
What about more traditional roguelikes ?
If you like the genre, they fit your criteria.
Perhaps... Inscryption or Slots & Daggers
Not sure Casey's Mod has the kind of legs that Randomise is looking for. The story campaign is top notch though.
Have you tried StS board game? It is awesome.
I did! It's very great with my partner but I can't always commit to 3-6 hours.
Bit of an odd one, but while I was waiting for Slay the Spire to get onto mobile a thousand years ago, I got really into Rogue Adventure. Not sure if the game still plays the same, but it's free, part of Google Play Pass
and I think just a buck to get rid of ads.https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=it.sharklab.rogueadventure
Edit: Carrow set me straight.
It plays a lot better on mobile than StS. Ad removal is $7 -- though optional in game, viewing them gives loot. $6 to unlock all content but I'd put dozens hours in easy without having seen all the free content.
This is a great game. I played it before I played Slay the Spire, which was odd when some of my friends were getting really into spire
Skogdal is pretty cool. Basically Slay the Spire in rural Norway in the 90's. Not sure how good the controller support is though.
Just noticed this sale: you can get like 20 of these games for super cheap right now - https://www.humblebundle.com/games/decked-out-deckbuilders
These are the deckbuilders that I have enjoyed. I can only evaluate based on your first 4 criteria; I don't typically play with a controller.
Aces and Adventures (currently 90% off!) - for $2.59CAD this is well worth it. It's not as good as STS, but it's a decent poker-based deckbuilder that is pretty cool. There are several classes and each class has different abilities, so it has good replay value.
Monster Train and MT2 are great. You stack monsters on a train, holding off the hordes of monsters. Good difficulty scaling, lots of replayability.
Guild of Dungeoneering - it has been a while since I played this, but I did put in 25 hours or so when I was playing it. It did not grab me like any of the ones above, but it is cute, has cool cartoonish art, and IIRC had what felt like really natural deckbuilding and progression. It has a demo.
Beneath Oresa - I wrote about it a while ago, and said this:
I eventually found it to be not quite as good as STS or Monster Train (but what is?) but found it very enjoyable overall. I'd put it above Aces and Adventures or Guild of Dungeoneering.
Dicefolk is the game that I'm currently using to scratch this itch. It is not bad but it's not as good as others that you have mentioned. I feel like it's a step down from Dicey Dungeons, which you mentioned having enjoyed. The art style is cartoonish in a way that doesn't gel for me (which seems silly when I suggested Guild of Dungeoneering for being cute and cartoonish, but here we are), but the overall gameplay is fairly solid. I've unlocked each of the characters and have been doing the trail runs (similar to Ascensions in STS) and it can be fairly challenging. I feel like it is more random than some of the other games here, and it has less overall deckbuilding; it is a dice game. I think it has a demo as well, so it might be worth checking out.
Astraea is like if StS used dice instead of cards
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1755830/Astrea_SixSided_Oracles/
Dungeon Clawler is like if StS replaced the deck with a claw machine
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2356780/Dungeon_Clawler/
If you enjoyed Hades, I recommend Supergiant's library, they don't miss, though you aren't likely to get 600hrs out of their titles. Transistor has more turn based combat. Pyre is fairly unique. Hades 2 really is Hades++.
ETA: my StS addicted friend enjoyed Banners of Ruin before finding StS, it's StS if you had a party of animals instead of one character per run.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1075740/Banners_of_Ruin/
I haven't played Aethermancer, but it's made by the same people as monster Sanctuary, so it's going to be really hard. It's turn based and played with a controller, and there'll probably by a lot figuring out what the best monsters to use are. I don't know how fun it'll be, but the last game was really good.
Have you considered any traditional roguelikes, in the vein of Rogue and Nethack? It's rare for them to play well with controllers, but there are a few that do. The ones I would most recommend are Caves of Qud and Jupiter Hell (Either the Classic version or the main fork, both are great. I personally like Jupiter Hell Classic because it's sprites instead of 3D, and to me, sprites are much more sight-readable.)
The subgenre greatly rewards deep strategic thinking, and stays hard all the way through by avoiding metaprogression. I think that if the multifaceted challenge is one thing you love about StS, traditional roguelikes might be what you're looking for.
Notably, Jupiter Hell is an entry level traditional roguelike, and Caves of Qud is more next-level, so if you've never played one before, I'd start with the former, just to get your sea legs.
Umm, have you tried Slay The Spire 2?
Double-check the OP
:facepalm:
I'm curious: I see the card base for StS, but I've been jonesing Darkest Dungeons since I
got itstarted playing it in '22, and am back on a resurgence now that I am better understanding the mechanics.How would you (OP or others) compare the two games? I'd been eying Iratus on the latest sale but didn't get it - it seems the best option for a DD clone. I'm on the fence about card-based games. I'm seriously trying to learn MtG:Commander but it makes me feel stupid. Haven't encountered an online version of card games that did though, and I did kinda get into Hearthstone, but I refused to p2w.
Iratus often goes on sale via bundles on key sites such as Fanatical.
I did not like Iratus during its launch period, it played like a poorly balanced and rough around the edges version of Darkest Dungeon, a game that I already had issues with. Can't speak to its DLC though.
I appreciate the feedback, and also the dm. I'll check it out, and thank you!!
Darkest Dungeon is really fun but the fact that you lose your characters when you die really turns me off.
I have put maybe 30 hours in it and it's the only mechanic I don't like. I understand it's the core mechanic of the game and it's thematically logical but it doesn't make me want to play it again.
I don't feel bad about losing in StS and resetting; in Darkest Dungeon, I had to take days/weeks breaks between each failed run.
Ngl I save scum. It's made the experience way more enjoyable, and it's still a tough grind because of the save game mechanism. There have been a few times where I spent more time reloading/retrying than actually playing the level. I actually appreciate the game more now that I can enjoy it without constantly being frustrated and angry - so judge me all you want, but games are supposed to be fun.
My previous longest playthrough, I ended up with a roster of mostly level 1-2s and high level dungeons because I couldn't figure how to get the right trinkets or understand the mechanics, because I'd be spending all my money trying to fix the broken heroes and replace the dead ones.
No judging! I always save scum in StS too, but I only started doing it recently with StS2. I should give DD another shot with that in mind now that you mention it.
You'll need to disable cloud storage because it's pretty religious on shutting things down and I've lost a few saves to corruption when it's not disabled, and a script definitely made things easier for me.
I assume that was a slip ;)
Ah! That was a fortunate slip lol. I edited
I dont think I saw it in the thread yet: have you played Fights in Tight Spaces? Its a roguelike deck builder. Similar to Spire, your cards are your different moves, but most of the strategy is about positioning yourself while engaging in hand to hand combat with multiple enemies
As someone who's sank thousands of hours into Slay The Spire, the closest that came to scratching the same itch for me were Kaycee's Mod (Inscryption roguelike gamemode) and the Breachway demo. The latter's out in early access now, I think, but I haven't played it past the demo.
Otherwise, I'm keeping an eye out for Neidfyre, which looks to be another cardgame roguelike with a great aesthetic that brings to mind Darkest Dungeon.
I'm sorry, there's no hope. There are no replacements. The only thing you can do is get a friend hooked as well, and go co-op.
Nothing matches the magic of StS but here are a few more that are a solid distraction for a while:
I believe these are all playable with controller (but doublecheck if important)
IIRC, Shogun Showdown will be free this week on Epic Games Store
I'll check those out. I did play Shotgun King, very fun!
Fogpiercer has big Slay the Spire but action shooter genre to me. It has been super fun too!