34 votes

Reddit user explains the "Strong anti-piracy measures implemented by Nintendo for online."

34 comments

  1. [7]
    Raven
    Link
    I just read this before I left work. It's a really thorough write up! Kind of disappointing though for what I was hoping for homebrew on the switch. If it holds up we won't get as good of homebrew...

    I just read this before I left work. It's a really thorough write up! Kind of disappointing though for what I was hoping for homebrew on the switch. If it holds up we won't get as good of homebrew on that we saw on the Wii. Mix that with the implications of Nintendo's ban hammer and I am definitely holding of on tinkering with my Switch. It's really sad too because I want to do it more so with the murmurs of Nintendo completely ditching locally owned VC titles for the subscription business model. I'm really hoping someone out there finds a low risk and less clunky loop hole in the system.

    8 votes
    1. [5]
      unknown user
      Link Parent
      Hmm? I don't see how this affects homebrew at all. You can still run whatever code you want via Fusée Gelée, but if you want to connect to any Nintendo servers, you need a genuine copy of the game.

      Kind of disappointing though for what I was hoping for homebrew on the switch.

      Hmm? I don't see how this affects homebrew at all. You can still run whatever code you want via Fusée Gelée, but if you want to connect to any Nintendo servers, you need a genuine copy of the game.

      6 votes
      1. [2]
        SaucedButLeaking
        Link Parent
        But it does mean that if, down the line, they decide to scan for evidence of homebrew or associated tampering, they can issue a Nintendo Online Sevices-wide "fuck you" that prevents you from...

        But it does mean that if, down the line, they decide to scan for evidence of homebrew or associated tampering, they can issue a Nintendo Online Sevices-wide "fuck you" that prevents you from connecting to them ever again

        7 votes
        1. unknown user
          Link Parent
          That's true, yes. Hopefully that will just mean that homebrew is mostly restricted to running in CFW like Atmosphère, where it shouldn't be detectable, but the possibility of a perma-ban is a bit...

          That's true, yes. Hopefully that will just mean that homebrew is mostly restricted to running in CFW like Atmosphère, where it shouldn't be detectable, but the possibility of a perma-ban is a bit worrying.

          On the other hand I would have a hard time imagining Nintendo issuing online bans just for installing homebrew. They haven't done so in the past, as far as I know; I fully expect them to deploy updates that specifically target and erase homebrew, but a ban from online services would seem extreme. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

          5 votes
      2. [2]
        Raven
        Link Parent
        The jig and dongle method is just flat out annoying. And also because Nintendo has it's fingers deeper in the Switch they have an easier time banning people for playing around with the device....

        The jig and dongle method is just flat out annoying. And also because Nintendo has it's fingers deeper in the Switch they have an easier time banning people for playing around with the device. With the Wii's Homebrew channel I didn't need to force the system into a mode using a MacGyver made tool every time I wanted to use it, and I didn't risk my account or system from being banned just because I used the exploit to run emulators. No don't get me wrong. I could never do what these peeps are discovering and making happen. Also the hack scene for the Switch is still very young. I'm still cheering on people who are much smarter than me at doing this, in hopes they can get around Nintendo's shitty anti-piracy bs.

        4 votes
        1. unknown user
          Link Parent
          I think I remember hearing that consoles on firmware less than 5.0 might eventually have a software implementation of Fusée Gelée, so you might not need a jig forever. (On the other hand, 5.0...

          I think I remember hearing that consoles on firmware less than 5.0 might eventually have a software implementation of Fusée Gelée, so you might not need a jig forever. (On the other hand, 5.0 enabled KASLR, which makes an exploitable software vulnerability in 5.0+ very unlikely, at least for the moment.)

          3 votes
    2. gsav55
      Link Parent
      I think you can just play in airplane mode and be fine.

      I think you can just play in airplane mode and be fine.

  2. [27]
    Bear
    Link
    Linking to Reddit posts? Are we really that desperate for content? Sad. "But it's important/cool/useful/whatever!" Then go to Reddit, don't cross-post their content here.

    Linking to Reddit posts? Are we really that desperate for content? Sad.

    "But it's important/cool/useful/whatever!"

    Then go to Reddit, don't cross-post their content here.

    4 votes
    1. [15]
      Kachajal
      Link Parent
      Why on earth not? If it's an interesting read, why the hell does it matter where it comes from? The point in posting it here is to share it with this community, and to generate discussion here. I...

      Then go to Reddit, don't cross-post their content here.

      Why on earth not? If it's an interesting read, why the hell does it matter where it comes from? The point in posting it here is to share it with this community, and to generate discussion here.

      I can understand not wanting ~ to become a reddit bestof aggregator, but that's hardly the case so far.

      37 votes
      1. [14]
        Bear
        Link Parent
        It's disingenuous for a site to build a user base from Reddit users that promoted deeper discussion but then that directly rips off Reddit-specific content.

        Why on earth not? If it's an interesting read, why the hell does it matter where it comes from?

        It's disingenuous for a site to build a user base from Reddit users that promoted deeper discussion but then that directly rips off Reddit-specific content.

        3 votes
        1. [13]
          cfabbro
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          Link Aggregators by their very nature "rip off" other sites. Curation of external links is one of their primary purposes, as is facilitating the users/communities in them to discuss that submitted...

          Link Aggregators by their very nature "rip off" other sites. Curation of external links is one of their primary purposes, as is facilitating the users/communities in them to discuss that submitted link/topic in their own unique way with their own unique perspectives. So IMO reddit (and any other aggregator) posts are fair game as well, if it's interesting enough content. As for deeper discussion, compare the top comments on that post on reddit to here and I think you will notice a significant difference already.

          12 votes
          1. [12]
            Bear
            Link Parent
            If Tildes is just going to be another "link aggregator" then I don't see the value in it. Deep discussion can be had on any open forum, and isn't enough of a differentiator on its own for Tildes, IMO.

            If Tildes is just going to be another "link aggregator" then I don't see the value in it.

            Deep discussion can be had on any open forum, and isn't enough of a differentiator on its own for Tildes, IMO.

            1. [4]
              Deimos
              (edited )
              Link Parent
              Tildes isn't supposed to be some new kind of site. It's a link aggregator / discussion site. If that's not what you thought it was, then I think you've misunderstood something (or I've explained...

              Tildes isn't supposed to be some new kind of site. It's a link aggregator / discussion site. If that's not what you thought it was, then I think you've misunderstood something (or I've explained poorly).

              This was a perfectly fine thing to submit and I'm glad that @TrialAndFailure posted it. I enjoyed reading it and never would have seen it otherwise.

              16 votes
              1. [3]
                Bear
                (edited )
                Link Parent
                On the Tildes docs section, I read the overall goals, and the FAQ. In neither did I see a statement about what's supposed to make Tildes really different from Reddit. And if it's not different...

                On the Tildes docs section, I read the overall goals, and the FAQ. In neither did I see a statement about what's supposed to make Tildes really different from Reddit. And if it's not different from Reddit, then... why leave Reddit?

                • No ads. I can get that on Reddit with an ad blocker.
                • Faster page loads, but less features. I'll call that a wash.
                • Lots of meta posts, vs. actual content. Beginning woes, I hope.
                • Duplicated content and discussion, that I have already seen or had on Reddit.
                • No support of hate speech. That I support. No ~thedonald or similar sections, ever, I hope.

                What do I want to see on Tildes that can separate it from Reddit?

                First, content that isn't duplicated from Reddit. Second, serious, non-meta, non-duplicated discussion, that is well-moderated.

                Some say that my view of content is too rigid, too black and white. Perhaps, but that's me.

                Having said all that, don't think that I am not thankful for a chance at a better site; I am. I have long felt that Reddit was not only "too big for it britches", but also, that they had embraced dangerous and controversial content in the name of ad impressions, which is wrong. Further, I'm not pleased with their very corporate structure, where it seems that my voice is ignored. I'm fully aware that Reddit is a product of its users submissions and discussions, and without those, it dies.

                3 votes
                1. [2]
                  bme
                  Link Parent
                  You can block the ads, but with the redesign your the level of first party tracking on the site is now off the charts.

                  You can block the ads, but with the redesign your the level of first party tracking on the site is now off the charts.

                  4 votes
                  1. Bear
                    Link Parent
                    I'm pretty much resigned to the notion that any social media site - which Reddit is - will track users as much as possible, and though I loathe the general concept of tracking users, it is endemic...

                    I'm pretty much resigned to the notion that any social media site - which Reddit is - will track users as much as possible, and though I loathe the general concept of tracking users, it is endemic to the internet as we know it.

                    Thus, I limit it and sabotage it as much as I can, but I also accept it as sort of a universal constant.

                    1 vote
            2. [7]
              tvfj
              Link Parent
              What do you see tildes as that does have value to you? If not a link aggregator with better discussion, then... what? But maybe more on point is the fact that the reddit post is the primary source...

              What do you see tildes as that does have value to you? If not a link aggregator with better discussion, then... what?

              But maybe more on point is the fact that the reddit post is the primary source - so would a blog linking back to it be better for anyone? Or do you think Tildes users have a responsibility to also spend time on reddit?

              7 votes
              1. [6]
                Bear
                Link Parent
                First, content that isn't duplicated from Reddit. Second, serious, non-meta, non-duplicated discussion, that is well-moderated. That did catch my eye initially, but then it became "Ok, so we're a...

                What do you see tildes as that does have value to you?

                First, content that isn't duplicated from Reddit. Second, serious, non-meta, non-duplicated discussion, that is well-moderated.

                But maybe more on point is the fact that the reddit post is the primary source

                That did catch my eye initially, but then it became "Ok, so we're a bunch of Reddit refugees, linking to Reddit, and having conversations that have already occurred on the Reddit post!". That's just depressing, and it says that we can't bring anything new, or better.

                would a blog linking back to it be better for anyone?

                Only if the content creator had originally posted it on said blog.

                Or do you think Tildes users have a responsibility to also spend time on reddit?

                Of course not. But I think we do have a responsibility not to rip off Reddit content.

                1 vote
                1. [5]
                  tvfj
                  Link Parent
                  We're linking to the post, not stealing it, ripping off, or "duplicating" the content. If there's duplication in the comments, then would you also opt to ban links to any website with comments? I...

                  We're linking to the post, not stealing it, ripping off, or "duplicating" the content. If there's duplication in the comments, then would you also opt to ban links to any website with comments?

                  I think you may have missed my point. If we can't link to reddit OC, and we can't link to blogspam (blogs linking to the reddit OC), and you don't think we have a responsibility to also spend time on reddit, then you're effectively removing any possible way for a tildes-only user to ever see that post, which makes tildes a lot less valuable. I do spend some time on reddit, I've even spent time on the Switch hacking subs, but I wouldn't have seen this post had it not been "cross-posted" here, so I'm happy it was.

                  I think you're hung up on owing something to reddit, or desperately wanting to avoid becoming reddit. I don't really see that happening.

                  5 votes
                  1. [4]
                    Bear
                    Link Parent
                    Read original post on Reddit. Open Tildes, see the same Reddit post. I'd call that duplicating the content. And yes, links are the basis of the web, but it's more that Tildes wants to be a link...

                    We're linking to the post, not stealing it, ripping off, or "duplicating" the content.

                    Read original post on Reddit. Open Tildes, see the same Reddit post. I'd call that duplicating the content.

                    And yes, links are the basis of the web, but it's more that Tildes wants to be a link aggregator, but they want to rip off content of another aggegator! That strikes me as wrong.

                    then you're effectively removing any possible way for a tildes-only user to ever see that post

                    Too bad? If I was a Reddit-only user, I'm going to miss Tildes-only content, Facebook-only content, etc. If the users want it, they can easily go to the other sites and get it.

                    which makes tildes a lot less valuable

                    Thus why I want to see Tildes generate something worthy that I can't already get somewhere else. I want to see that become Tildes niche.

                    I think you're hung up on owing something to reddit

                    Somewhat, (Tildes creator and most users came from there) but moreso your next point much more.

                    desperately wanting to avoid becoming reddit

                    Bingo! I think we can all agree that Reddit has become something that we don't want to see. Driven by the desires of advertisers, ignoring the wishes of users, and a home to hate speech.

                    1 vote
                    1. [3]
                      tvfj
                      Link Parent
                      A story or an ask* thread is content developed by and for the particular community they're posted to, and shouldn't be posted here. I think we agree on that. But this post isn't the same: This is...

                      A story or an ask* thread is content developed by and for the particular community they're posted to, and shouldn't be posted here. I think we agree on that. But this post isn't the same: This is a very high-effort post detailing their reverse-engineering of security software - the kind of thing usually found on someone's blog. The reddit OP simply chose reddit as their (lower-case) medium.

                      I think this might be a point of contention here: I, at least, don't think the vast majority of text-posts on reddit should ever be linked to here. In fact, only a very small list of exceptions make real sense, and this post is one of them.

                      4 votes
                      1. [2]
                        Bear
                        Link Parent
                        Just because the content is really good doesn't mean that we, as a bunch of Reddit refugees hoping for a better system, should be making exceptions to post it here. If it's so good, then that's a...

                        Just because the content is really good doesn't mean that we, as a bunch of Reddit refugees hoping for a better system, should be making exceptions to post it here.

                        If it's so good, then that's a sign that Reddit, for all of its flaws, is still a place that people go, for good reason.

                        1 vote
                        1. unknown user
                          Link Parent
                          People go to reddit because other people are on reddit... There would be no point in posting a write-up like this directly on Tildes, because only a few thousand people would be able to see it,...

                          If it's so good, then that's a sign that Reddit, for all of its flaws, is still a place that people go, for good reason.

                          People go to reddit because other people are on reddit... There would be no point in posting a write-up like this directly on Tildes, because only a few thousand people would be able to see it, with significantly fewer than that actually being interested in it. In comparison, there are over 17 thousand users subscribed to /r/SwitchHacks.

                          4 votes
    2. [6]
      Comment deleted by author
      Link Parent
      1. [5]
        Bear
        Link Parent
        I never said there was more, nor did I ask you to comb through the games section. As far as this not being Reddit-specific content, yes, it is, because the author chose to post it there. Sure,...

        I never said there was more, nor did I ask you to comb through the games section.

        As far as this not being Reddit-specific content, yes, it is, because the author chose to post it there. Sure, he/she could have put it elsewhere, but they didn't.

        1 vote
        1. [2]
          unknown user
          Link Parent
          How is this different to posting a link to, say, the New York Times, then saying "well they could have chosen to post it directly on Tildes, why are we ripping off NYT content?" Here, reddit is...

          As far as this not being Reddit-specific content, yes, it is, because the author chose to post it there. Sure, he/she could have put it elsewhere, but they didn't.

          How is this different to posting a link to, say, the New York Times, then saying "well they could have chosen to post it directly on Tildes, why are we ripping off NYT content?"

          Here, reddit is being used as a publishing platform, and Tildes is doing its job as a link aggregator by having a link to the content. What difference would it make if the author had posted the write-up on their own blog rather than on reddit?

          9 votes
          1. Bear
            Link Parent
            It would make a difference, because this site started up to get away from Reddit. If Tildes is just going to be another "link aggregator" then I don't see the value in it. Deep discussion can be...

            What difference would it make if the author had posted the write-up on their own blog rather than on reddit?

            It would make a difference, because this site started up to get away from Reddit.

            If Tildes is just going to be another "link aggregator" then I don't see the value in it.

            Deep discussion can be had on any open forum, and isn't enough of a differentiator on its own for Tildes, IMO.

            1 vote
        2. [3]
          Comment deleted by author
          Link Parent
          1. [2]
            Bear
            Link Parent
            If Tildes is just going to be another "link aggregator" then I don't see the value in it. Deep discussion can be had on any open forum, and isn't enough of a differentiator on its own for Tildes, IMO.

            If Tildes is just going to be another "link aggregator" then I don't see the value in it.

            Deep discussion can be had on any open forum, and isn't enough of a differentiator on its own for Tildes, IMO.

            1 vote
            1. [2]
              Comment deleted by author
              Link Parent
              1. Bear
                Link Parent
                I can get most of that from certain subreddits on Reddit already. There are subs that allow no fluff or nsfw, that moderate heavily to keep the quality level of the discussion high, etc. I don't...

                One of the defining parts of Tildes is the philosophy/politics that shape it - strong regards for privacy, status as a nonprofit, voting/posting/moderation functionality, no tolerating fluff, nsfw and hateful content.

                I can get most of that from certain subreddits on Reddit already. There are subs that allow no fluff or nsfw, that moderate heavily to keep the quality level of the discussion high, etc.

                I don't so much care for privacy as an idea (it's great as a concept, but it's very much dead online today), and as far as being a non-profit, that doesn't really motivate me. Some would say that if Tildes wasn't a non-profit, they could be beholden to advertisers, but to that, I remind you that I can block ads with an ad-blocker.

    3. [6]
      eeldam
      Link Parent
      I think it's kind of silly to have the attitude that links to reddit shouldn't be posted here – it's one of the largest sites on the internet, it does have interesting original content (like...

      I think it's kind of silly to have the attitude that links to reddit shouldn't be posted here – it's one of the largest sites on the internet, it does have interesting original content (like this!) and not everybody here is anti-reddit.

      13 votes
      1. [5]
        Bear
        Link Parent
        You know as well as I do that this site was started by a former Reddit employee. While it may not be wrong per-se, the optics of piggybacking on Reddit content aren't great IMO. Of course, my...

        You know as well as I do that this site was started by a former Reddit employee.

        While it may not be wrong per-se, the optics of piggybacking on Reddit content aren't great IMO. Of course, my views on content are extremely black and white.

        1 vote
        1. [3]
          EngiNerd
          Link Parent
          From the man himself I see no reason not to cross post content from Reddit to here. Reddit is a content aggregator and so is Tildes, the difference is supposed to be in the quality of content and...

          From the man himself

          When I started /r/Games on reddit, one of the things I did to seed it with content initially was create a bot that would look at every post made to /r/gaming and run it through various criteria to try to figure out if it seemed like it might be a "good post". For example, it would disregard all images, posts from certain sites, ones that weren't getting upvoted, and so on. Anything that made it through the filters would be automatically cross-posted to /r/Games. I didn't end up having to run that bot for very long (only about 3 weeks), but it was pretty useful as a way to initially get some content into the subreddit. Do you think we might want to have a similar sort of thing here?

          I see no reason not to cross post content from Reddit to here. Reddit is a content aggregator and so is Tildes, the difference is supposed to be in the quality of content and discussion. If quality content was posted on Reddit, there's no reason not to cross post it here and have a quality discussion about it here

          8 votes
          1. [2]
            Bear
            Link Parent
            If Tildes is just going to be another "link aggregator" then I don't see the value in it. Deep discussion can be had on any open forum, and isn't enough of a differentiator on its own for Tildes,...

            If Tildes is just going to be another "link aggregator" then I don't see the value in it.

            Deep discussion can be had on any open forum, and isn't enough of a differentiator on its own for Tildes, IMO.

            If quality content was posted on Reddit, there's no reason not to cross post it here and have a quality discussion about it here

            Great, more ad infinitum uselessly duplicated discussion! /s

            1 vote
            1. EngiNerd
              Link Parent
              uhhhhhhhhhhh then what exactly do you think Tildes is supposed to be? I think there may have been some misunderstanding on your part if you think Tildes is supposed to be anything other than a...

              If Tildes is just going to be another "link aggregator"

              uhhhhhhhhhhh then what exactly do you think Tildes is supposed to be? I think there may have been some misunderstanding on your part if you think Tildes is supposed to be anything other than a content aggregator focusing on quality over throughput-for-advertising.

              3 votes
        2. eeldam
          Link Parent
          I just don't see how it's a problem especially if Reddit is the original source of the content (as it is in this case). I don't see why a site about discussion should avoid discussing content just...

          I just don't see how it's a problem especially if Reddit is the original source of the content (as it is in this case). I don't see why a site about discussion should avoid discussing content just because it originated on a different site about discussion. I don't really view it as piggybacking. As long as Reddit exists at its current scale it's going to be a source of interesting OC, so I imagine there will always be some linking to it from here as people want to discuss that content specifically within the tildes community.

          1 vote