40 votes

I would like to see a multi-player gaming company attack player-toxicity with an iron fist and see the results.

In multiplayer games where there is open chat between teammates or worse, among all players there is rampant toxicity. It is known.

I think that most game companies believe that if they crack down too hard that they will lose their player base.

My belief is that the opposite would happen. A sincere effort (with human review) would require a HUGE initial outlay of resources but with the right punishment (30-day ban from ranked play for example) would nearly eliminate toxicity and also significantly reduce the need for human review.

DOTA did a half-assed measure in like 2015 or something and it worked really well for the time they kept it. But there was a serious change in people's attitudes when it got implemented. Games went from total-toxic to mildly-toxic.

I would bet that a game company that has a decent game (thinking mobas but FPS's probably involved too) such as Hots, Dota, or LOL, they would not LOSE playerbase, but instead gain a HUGE playerbase of people that just want to play games and know that if someone tells you that you are a non-team-playing motherfucker for choosing the hero you think best (but they don't).... they might get banned for 30 days... that might stop them from going off the rails and politely asking instead.

Anyway, I fucked your mom last night.

26 comments

  1. [6]
    SleepyGary
    Link
    In BF2/2142 I played almost exclusively on servers that enforced team play, respecting chain of command, and being respectful to each other. They also had admins that were fair but brought the...

    In BF2/2142 I played almost exclusively on servers that enforced team play, respecting chain of command, and being respectful to each other. They also had admins that were fair but brought the hammer down swift and fast on cheaters and toxic players. The times those servers didn't have a queue were few and far between.

    11 votes
    1. [4]
      Deimos
      Link Parent
      I think that's something that's really been lost as games have switched from community-run servers to centralized ones with match-making. There used to be nice little communities, and you could...

      I think that's something that's really been lost as games have switched from community-run servers to centralized ones with match-making. There used to be nice little communities, and you could find places to play with regular people you enjoyed playing with often, and good admins that would get rid of issues.

      Now you almost never play with the same people unless you go as far as friending them and specifically queuing together, and all the enforcement ends up on the company's end (where they don't usually do a good job).

      16 votes
      1. PogChamp
        Link Parent
        This was the core of my gaming experience in the early-mid 2000s. I met people online back then in Halo CE, Quake 3, Counter Strike 1.6 and Call of Duty 2 who I still talk to... in one case 15...

        This was the core of my gaming experience in the early-mid 2000s. I met people online back then in Halo CE, Quake 3, Counter Strike 1.6 and Call of Duty 2 who I still talk to... in one case 15 plus years later? I've known some of those guys for half of my entire life.

        Consequently, these days I've almost completely lost interest in online gaming except for one game. World of Warcraft on private servers still captures the spirit of community that is gone now. There's still a tight knit community keeping the game alive all these years later.

        I've played other online games on and off, mainly Dota 2 and League of Legends but the more I played the more I came to realize how hollow and empty those games were. Games just fail at creating lasting social ties when your fellow players are just warm bodies put there temporarily to create the feeling of challenge.

        Back in the day I used to know who all of the big name players from my region were and talked to them personally. Now that's all gone.

        8 votes
      2. [2]
        Amarok
        Link Parent
        Damn straight. Original Everquest was epic because you had no choice but to get to know the people on your server. Playing that game with that group of people you got to know was literally all of...

        Damn straight. Original Everquest was epic because you had no choice but to get to know the people on your server. Playing that game with that group of people you got to know was literally all of the fun - the game itself was a hellish, impossibly roguelike maelstrom of broken spaghetti code. If you alienated the server's playerbase, you were done playing that game. On our server all the asshats ended up in one gigantic, universally reviled guild that was legendary only for their incompetence... and harassing, content-cockblocking, and killing those players through malicious PvE was a server passtime for the rest of the good guilds.

        Once WoW came along it was the same, up towards the end of Burning Crusade. Then suddenly server transfers became easy, and then there were group-finders so you could join cross-server groups. That flatly killed WoW's community aspects and turned it into a slot machine of disposable people, most of whom now exhibited gross incompetence and terrible behavior because there were now no repercussions for that bad behavior.

        The same thing happened early on in Rift. That's still hands-down the best MMO I've ever played, but right out of the gate they undercut the community aspects by making it easy to work with randoms instead of focusing on server and guild community building. Most of the servers ended up like ghost towns with all the talented players congregating on just a couple of them.

        In both of those games, even guilds began behaving badly - players were now a disposable commodity to them with cross-server recruitment, so guilds started treating players that way and exploiting them. That simply never happened in Everquest or it was the instant and permanent death of that guild.

        I firmly believe there are two fundamental mistakes with MMOs and they won't improve until those mistakes are corrected. The first was this loss of social capital - the second was the introduction of instanced content. The level of competition and rivalry present in EQ and DAoC has never been matched by their lesser children because of that instancing. When the raid zones only respawn at random times once a week, and the entire server is forced to compete alongside each other at the same time in the same place for that content, the results are gloriously crazy.

        I definitely miss that, and won't be going back to play any other MMOs until those aspects are restored. Nothing in a modern MMO is worthwhile once you've played those games the way they were meant to be played, before Blizzard pussified the entire space with their disneyland theme parks.

        6 votes
        1. crius
          Link Parent
          Not only that. Even for "non-bad" players, running a dungeon, raid or PvP battleground, became the same as running it with NPC. If you check how an average dungeon run works now, it's something...

          Once WoW came along it was the same, up towards the end of Burning Crusade. Then suddenly server transfers became easy, and then there were group-finders so you could join cross-server groups. That flatly killed WoW's community aspects and turned it into a slot machine of disposable people, most of whom now exhibited gross incompetence and terrible behavior because there were now no repercussions for that bad behavior.

          Not only that. Even for "non-bad" players, running a dungeon, raid or PvP battleground, became the same as running it with NPC.

          If you check how an average dungeon run works now, it's something like this 99% of the time:

          • join queue
          • enter instance
          • no words spoken, everyone start literally running frantically from enemy to enemy trying to make this as quick as possible
          • if the "quickness" above lead someone to ask to slow down (low level equip, new player not knowing mechanics) that someone is going to be ignored, mocked or kicked out
          • instance completed, not a "GG" or something. Everyone leaves.

          That, to me, is bullshit, not a "multiplayer experience".

          If that was the environment in wow classic/burning crusade, I wouldn't have had the plenty of online friendship I would have today.

          7 votes
    2. vfr2imc
      Link Parent
      That's what I'm talking about. This isn't a democracy, this is a game. And if you have a huge amount of abusive players, you are driving away the "silent majority".... fuck the abusive players....

      That's what I'm talking about. This isn't a democracy, this is a game. And if you have a huge amount of abusive players, you are driving away the "silent majority".... fuck the abusive players. Tell them to sit for 30 days and go play another game.

      The influx of gamers from other games in the same genre will more than make up for it.

      1 vote
  2. teaearlgraycold
    Link
    IMO if you grief, use racial slurs, or are in any way clearly in the game specifically to upset people you should be banned either permanently or for at least a month. If the first offense isn't a...

    IMO if you grief, use racial slurs, or are in any way clearly in the game specifically to upset people you should be banned either permanently or for at least a month. If the first offense isn't a permanent ban then the second must be.

    This works best when the game you're playing costs money. Free to play bans don't mean much to a troll unless there's some kind of system to keep new players away from people with a non-trivial amount of time in game.

    8 votes
  3. deciduous
    Link
    So a few years ago I moderated a bf3 server and a subreddit dedicated to it. It was one of the greatest gaming experiences I've ever had. Our server was on xbox360 and was called "FreeHugsBf3". It...

    So a few years ago I moderated a bf3 server and a subreddit dedicated to it. It was one of the greatest gaming experiences I've ever had. Our server was on xbox360 and was called "FreeHugsBf3". It was an awesome server that always had great gameplay and comms. We strongly encouraged positive communication and quickly banned those that used hate speech and even gave warnings to those who violated implicit rules of the game (spawn camping, throwing to give away teammates, etc.) It was such a great experience and we quickly attracted a great community and tons of the best players on xbox.

    I truly believe that there can be a great multiplayer experience, but I've only experienced it on private servers. Bf3, red orchestra 2, tf2. I've had phenomenal times on private servers with strict moderation. I'm honestly not sure if it's possible to replicate private servers with modern matchmaking. But I'm instantly interested in any game that tries.

    5 votes
  4. [4]
    RapidEyeMovement
    Link
    Play TF2 on a community server, it is great! Light hearted ribbing is the most you will see

    Play TF2 on a community server, it is great!

    Light hearted ribbing is the most you will see

    4 votes
    1. [3]
      SleepyGary
      Link Parent
      I tried to pick up TF2 a little while ago and I just found the gameplay dated for my tastes, I used to play the crap out of it, just couldn't get into it. Not to mention those that still play seem...

      I tried to pick up TF2 a little while ago and I just found the gameplay dated for my tastes, I used to play the crap out of it, just couldn't get into it. Not to mention those that still play seem to have never stopped so the skill gap is pretty tremendous.

      3 votes
      1. [2]
        hackergal
        Link Parent
        I'm curious what you found dated about TF2. I know the graphics are dated, but what about the gameplay makes it feel dated to you? I ask because I had kind of the opposite experience as you. I was...

        I'm curious what you found dated about TF2. I know the graphics are dated, but what about the gameplay makes it feel dated to you? I ask because I had kind of the opposite experience as you. I was playing overwatch until I realized I wasn't having fun playing it, so I fired up TF2 for the first time in like, 3 or 4 years and had a blast.

        3 votes
        1. SleepyGary
          Link Parent
          I don't feel the gameplay has change in any significant way in at least 5 years. I played the shit out of the game for 6 years, and nothing has really changed since then except a few minor items....

          I don't feel the gameplay has change in any significant way in at least 5 years. I played the shit out of the game for 6 years, and nothing has really changed since then except a few minor items. It's the same reason I don't like playing CSGO anymore, It's not that they are bad games, I'm just looking for something new.

  5. [4]
    Deimos
    Link
    I don't play the game so I haven't followed this closely at all, but I know that Rainbow Six: Siege has been planning to crack down harder on player toxicity:...

    I don't play the game so I haven't followed this closely at all, but I know that Rainbow Six: Siege has been planning to crack down harder on player toxicity: https://rainbow6.ubisoft.com/siege/en-us/news/152-321200-16/dev-blog-toxicity

    It looks like they recently (just over a week ago) posted a new Code of Conduct as well: https://rainbow6.ubisoft.com/siege/en-us/news/152-326395-16/rainbow-six-siege-code-of-conduct

    3 votes
    1. thermite
      Link Parent
      Honestly for the first few weeks of them implimenting their toxicity (catcher thing?) It weeded out quite a few but it's still bad, and on consoles they said something along the lines of "we can't...

      Honestly for the first few weeks of them implimenting their toxicity (catcher thing?) It weeded out quite a few but it's still bad, and on consoles they said something along the lines of "we can't do anything because it would have to be done my sony/Microsoft" so it's mostly just big talk it seems

      2 votes
    2. Z3R0
      Link Parent
      I'm an active player of siege, they cracked down hard a bit ago and it's really made an impact,albeit a lot of people didn't like how they couldn't use slurs or harsh insults. But no one has...

      I'm an active player of siege, they cracked down hard a bit ago and it's really made an impact,albeit a lot of people didn't like how they couldn't use slurs or harsh insults. But no one has brought forth a good reason why they should be usable. If anyone in your match is suspected of cheating, using slurs, harsh terms, or even just being a straight up dick you can report for toxic behavior. And from what I know of the system 1 report will flag them, 3 reports from one match will flag them with a priority check, 5+ will ask for an immediate review (which I've seen people get banned mid game from)

      1 vote
    3. DoudouCiceron
      Link Parent
      It hasn't had that much of impact from what I can see. Also the real toxicity in Siege comes in the form of griefing (intentional TK, destroying cameras before the round starts, leaving...) which...

      It hasn't had that much of impact from what I can see. Also the real toxicity in Siege comes in the form of griefing (intentional TK, destroying cameras before the round starts, leaving...) which doesn't seem to get addressed by Ubisoft at all.

      1 vote
  6. smoontjes
    Link
    I feel like Activision-Blizzard does this with WoW. They investigate it if you get reported for things, anyway. An example from one of my less-than-fine moments - after a heated back and forth in...

    I feel like Activision-Blizzard does this with WoW. They investigate it if you get reported for things, anyway.

    An example from one of my less-than-fine moments - after a heated back and forth in /whisper, I told someone I hoped they got cancer. They reported me, and I almost got a 3-day ban but since I had played for 10+ years, and had no prior bans or warnings, the game master let me off with a warning.

    There's of course still plenty of shit-talking and toxicity in WoW, but it is far less than other games I've played - of those, CS:GO is by far the worst offender. It is so bad in that game that I used to play without a microphone and muted everyone all the time. It was just constant provocations and insults... Some people will call it 'banter' but I just don't see it. It's so bad in CS:GO that I don't play it anymore, and I don't want to either. It's an incredibly toxic community.

    Anyways, it would indeed be interesting to see an actual crack-down on it. But I doubt it'll really happen - I think it requires too much time and effort (and most importantly money) on the game company's part.

    3 votes
  7. [5]
    Luca
    Link
    I agree that real toxicity needs to go, but how do you differentiate between toxic chat and competitive trash-talk? Maybe I'm just old school, but I'm used to insults being tossed back and forth...

    I agree that real toxicity needs to go, but how do you differentiate between toxic chat and competitive trash-talk? Maybe I'm just old school, but I'm used to insults being tossed back and forth from both sides, without anyone really getting angry in the end.

    2 votes
    1. [3]
      SleepyGary
      Link Parent
      I think you kind of answered you own question. On the other hand if you're berating your own teammates or being a poor sport and no one is really having a good time then you're being toxic. I knew...

      I think you kind of answered you own question. On the other hand if you're berating your own teammates or being a poor sport and no one is really having a good time then you're being toxic. I knew a lot of guys in the old days that said they were just joking around and everyone needed to chill but it was only that one individual that thought they were being funny and everyone was having a good time.

      6 votes
      1. [2]
        hackergal
        Link Parent
        I think there's more nuance to it than that. I've definitely had interactions where I was playfully trash-talking the other team but we would also say stuff like "nice shot" and sometimes we'd...

        I think there's more nuance to it than that. I've definitely had interactions where I was playfully trash-talking the other team but we would also say stuff like "nice shot" and sometimes we'd even add each other to friends after the game. If it's only trash talk then yeah that's usually just toxic behaviour, but it's possible to have some playful banter as long as it's mixed in with kindness.

        1 vote
        1. DoudouCiceron
          Link Parent
          If it's a human that's checking I think they would see that it's just playful banter. The problems start happening when it's only a bot that's checking if you were really toxic.

          If it's a human that's checking I think they would see that it's just playful banter. The problems start happening when it's only a bot that's checking if you were really toxic.

    2. chocolate
      Link Parent
      The issue is that one persons shit-stirring is another's verbal assault. Expecting 9 players to change their behaviour so the tenth is happy is obviously unfair. But the tenth still should be able...

      The issue is that one persons shit-stirring is another's verbal assault. Expecting 9 players to change their behaviour so the tenth is happy is obviously unfair. But the tenth still should be able to play.

      The solution seems to be allowing both free and polite games, but most player will reject anything that results in slower queues.

  8. hookertime
    Link
    I would love to see it. Overwatch can be hit or miss with the toxicity depending on time of day and what kind of match you play. I feel as though Overwatch League (OWL) has actually helped with...

    I would love to see it. Overwatch can be hit or miss with the toxicity depending on time of day and what kind of match you play. I feel as though Overwatch League (OWL) has actually helped with toxicity as people really into the game see the players laugh and have a good time instead of berate and yell at each other.

  9. vakieh
    Link
    You should get into the mud scene. I had to leave it myself, because I'm rather prone to addiction to them and it was starting to affect my work, but there's plenty out there where toxicity equals...

    You should get into the mud scene. I had to leave it myself, because I'm rather prone to addiction to them and it was starting to affect my work, but there's plenty out there where toxicity equals permaban.

  10. Gaywallet
    Link
    Ironically the lack of text chat in destiny 2 has made the player base fairly not toxic. You can set whisper permissions to, and hardly ever run into assholes. Most people use third party voice...

    Ironically the lack of text chat in destiny 2 has made the player base fairly not toxic. You can set whisper permissions to, and hardly ever run into assholes. Most people use third party voice chat like discord, so in game voice is hardly ever abused.

    I'm not sure there's an easy fix nor an easy implementation to fight the problem. The internet is anonymous and at the end of the day there are people who will want to use this to tap into a side of them they don't normally get to express (especially younger people as they are still testing social boundaries).

  11. what
    Link
    Slightly unrelated, but one reason I prefer HOTS over Dota 2 and LOL (aside from the game itself) is that the community seems much more chill.

    Slightly unrelated, but one reason I prefer HOTS over Dota 2 and LOL (aside from the game itself) is that the community seems much more chill.