20 votes

Could the porn industry offer a model for reopening amid Covid-19?

17 comments

  1. [12]
    Anwyl
    Link
    One thing that's surprised me with covid-19 is it taught me that a ton people just haven't learned much about the AIDS outbreak in USA. Especially non-LGBT people.

    One thing that's surprised me with covid-19 is it taught me that a ton people just haven't learned much about the AIDS outbreak in USA. Especially non-LGBT people.

    7 votes
    1. [7]
      asteroid
      Link Parent
      I've had a lot of thoughts about this, too. I knew people who died of AIDS, including a high school friend. One of the terrible things about AIDS was that it was tied to homosexuality... and there...

      I've had a lot of thoughts about this, too. I knew people who died of AIDS, including a high school friend.

      One of the terrible things about AIDS was that it was tied to homosexuality... and there was a societal undercurrent that it was perfectly fine if all the LGBTQ people died.

      The thing that changed opinions, I think, was when Isaac Asimov died of AIDS, due to a blood transfusion. That and Rock Hudson. Suddenly, it was "real people" who suffered.

      8 votes
      1. [6]
        Algernon_Asimov
        Link Parent
        Rock Hudson didn't change public opinion as much as Magic Johnson did. Magic Johnson was key. Rock Hudson was gay and an actor, so he could be dismissed as one of those filthy gays who deserved to...

        Rock Hudson didn't change public opinion as much as Magic Johnson did. Magic Johnson was key. Rock Hudson was gay and an actor, so he could be dismissed as one of those filthy gays who deserved to die. However, Magic Johnson was straight and a sportsman. That changed the narrative around HIV.

        When Isaac Asimov died in 1992, we had no idea it was because of an HIV-infected blood transfusion. That wasn't revealed until about a decade after he died - well past the height of the AIDS panic, and much too late to change opinions.

        9 votes
        1. [2]
          thundergolfer
          Link Parent
          Ryan White, the white straight teenage boy that got AIDS was also instrumental in getting legislation passed by a homophobic congress and American public. Learnt about his story listening to some...
          • Exemplary

          Ryan White, the white straight teenage boy that got AIDS was also instrumental in getting legislation passed by a homophobic congress and American public.

          Learnt about his story listening to some Vox podcast.

          6 votes
        2. [3]
          skybrian
          Link Parent
          And here's another data point: I just learned this about Asimov today.

          And here's another data point: I just learned this about Asimov today.

          3 votes
          1. [2]
            Algernon_Asimov
            Link Parent
            Did you learn he died of AIDS, or that the cause of his death was kept quiet? When Asimov died, his wife Janet wanted to tell everyone how he died, but doctors told her to hush it up:...

            Did you learn he died of AIDS, or that the cause of his death was kept quiet?

            When Asimov died, his wife Janet wanted to tell everyone how he died, but doctors told her to hush it up:

            [...] the doctors told us not to reveal Isaac's HIV. I argued with the doctors privately about this secrecy, but they prevailed, even after Isaac died. The doctors are dead now, and when Prometheus books asked me to write "It's Been a Good Life", Isaac's daughter and I agreed to go public on the HIV.

            https://www.locusmag.com/2002/Issue04/Letter.html

            2 votes
            1. skybrian
              Link Parent
              All of it. I've forgotten whatever I read about how he died. I was a big fan of Asimov in high school, but that was in the 80's, and I never read much about his personal life, other than what he...

              All of it. I've forgotten whatever I read about how he died. I was a big fan of Asimov in high school, but that was in the 80's, and I never read much about his personal life, other than what he wrote himself in introductions.

              1 vote
    2. [4]
      Algernon_Asimov
      Link Parent
      As I'm reading about the coronavirus pandemic, I can't help but be reminded of HIV and the lessons we gay men learned from that. "Safe sex" has a whole new meaning now!

      Especially non-LGBT people.

      As I'm reading about the coronavirus pandemic, I can't help but be reminded of HIV and the lessons we gay men learned from that. "Safe sex" has a whole new meaning now!

      3 votes
      1. [3]
        Anwyl
        Link Parent
        I was too young to be directly affected by it, but I think the biggest two things I was taught about it growing up were the government basically initially took a "let 'em die" stance, then moved...

        I was too young to be directly affected by it, but I think the biggest two things I was taught about it growing up were the government basically initially took a "let 'em die" stance, then moved to a "release untested drugs to just get this done with" stance.

        1 vote
        1. [2]
          Algernon_Asimov
          Link Parent
          Which government? I don't recall the Australian government taking that stance.

          Which government? I don't recall the Australian government taking that stance.

          1 vote
          1. Anwyl
            Link Parent
            USA, though even more specifically the reagan administration in USA was the biggest part of "let 'em die".

            USA, though even more specifically the reagan administration in USA was the biggest part of "let 'em die".

            3 votes
  2. [3]
    Algernon_Asimov
    Link
    10 days? In 10 days, a person can: get infected, have no symptoms, and become virus-free. Or, they can get infected and be infectious for a few days before developing a cough. And during that...

    “You’ll have to keep testing, maybe every 10 days. We need simpler tests that people can just do at home,” said Halloran, who envisions a low-cost “10-pack” of tests for home use.

    10 days? In 10 days, a person can: get infected, have no symptoms, and become virus-free. Or, they can get infected and be infectious for a few days before developing a cough. And during that cycle, they can infect everyone they come in contact with. If they're working, that means their whole work team could get infected.

    I saw a tweet the other day that said something like: a negative coronavirus test one day is wiped out the next day when the person enters a crowded space. You can get tested today, be negative, and then catch the coronavirus tomorrow. It's not like HIV where you have to have sex. You just have to be around an infected person to catch the coronavirus.

    10 days is not often enough. Ideally, people would have to be tested daily for the coronavirus.

    But Gallo said preventing the spread of HIV in the film industry is a far more tractable problem than reining in the novel coronavirus. [...] “This virus is viciously infectious,” he said. “It’s as infectious as anything I’ve ever heard of.”

    True, that.

    4 votes
    1. [2]
      KapteinB
      Link Parent
      It doesn't have to be daily as long as it's done in combination with contact tracing. If someone tests positive, everyone they've been in close contact with lately immediately gets a new test, or...

      It doesn't have to be daily as long as it's done in combination with contact tracing. If someone tests positive, everyone they've been in close contact with lately immediately gets a new test, or self-quarantine until their next scheduled test.

      1 vote
      1. Algernon_Asimov
        Link Parent
        Maybe not daily, but certainly not as infrequently as 10 days. The average incubation period for the coronavirus of 5 days, and the R0 factor is 2.2. Imagine someone takes a test on Day 0, and...

        Maybe not daily, but certainly not as infrequently as 10 days.

        The average incubation period for the coronavirus of 5 days, and the R0 factor is 2.2.

        Imagine someone takes a test on Day 0, and catches the virus on Day 1. By Day 4 or 5, they're probably infectious (people are most infectious just before they develop symptoms).

        When they're infectious, they infect 2 or 3 people. Then on Day 6, they develop a cough, and sensibly stay home and get tested for cornavirus. The test comes back positive on Day 7. Health authorities trace their contacts, and get in touch with them by Day 8 - just before those contacts become infectious. The outbreak is contained to just 3 or 4 people. Yay!

        That's a happy outcome.

        But that assumes that: the infected person develops symptoms; and they do the right thing when they notice their symptoms.

        What if the person soldiers on with their cough? Every day, they go to work and infect another person or two, who then go on to become infectious.

        What if they're asymptomatic? After the virus incubates by Day 4, they can go a full 5 or 6 days infecting other people before they get tested again on Day 10. If they infect only 1 person per day (it's likely to be more than that), that's at least 5 or 6 people who are infectious. And so on.

        Testing every 10 days isn't frequent enough. I'd say everyone needs to get tested about twice a week if a scheme like this is going to work. That way, any infection will be caught in its earliest stages.

  3. asteroid
    Link
    "In the 20 years it has been in place, PASS has met, and overcome, many of the same challenges that any large-scale coronavirus testing program might encounter, from issues of keeping databases of...

    "In the 20 years it has been in place, PASS has met, and overcome, many of the same challenges that any large-scale coronavirus testing program might encounter, from issues of keeping databases of private medical information secure, preventing the forging of test results, dealing with false positive results, and educating workers about the need for repeated testing to keep workplaces safe."

    2 votes