9 votes

Imagine if the National Transportation Safety Board investigated America’s response to the coronavirus pandemic

9 comments

  1. [6]
    skybrian
    Link
    This article is a condemnation of the Trump administration, for reasons we're all familiar with, but I thought this part was interesting:

    This article is a condemnation of the Trump administration, for reasons we're all familiar with, but I thought this part was interesting:

    From the U.S. point of view, news of a virulent disease outbreak anywhere in the world is unwelcome. But in normal circumstances, its location in China would have been a plus. Whatever the ups and downs of political relations over the past two decades, Chinese and American scientists and public-health officials have worked together frequently, and positively, on health crises ranging from SARS during George W. Bush’s administration to the H1N1 and Ebola outbreaks during Barack Obama’s. As Peter Beinart extensively detailed in an Atlantic article, the U.S. helped build China’s public-health infrastructure, and China has cooperated in detecting and containing diseases within its borders and far afield. One U.S. official recalled the Predict program: “Getting Chinese agreement to American monitors throughout their territory—that was something.” But then the Trump administration zeroed out that program.

    “We had cooperated with China on every public-health threat until now,” Susan Shirk, a former State Department official and longtime scholar of Chinese affairs at UC San Diego, told me. “SARS, AIDS, Ebola in Africa, H1N1—no matter what other disputes were going on in the relationship, we managed to carve out health, and work together quite professionally. So this case is just so anomalous and so tragic.” A significant comparison, she said, is the way the United States and the Soviet Union had worked together to eliminate smallpox around the world, despite their Cold War tensions. But now, she said, “people have definitely died because the U.S. and China have been unable to cooperate.”

    9 votes
    1. [5]
      skybrian
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      Some folks have argued recently that putting more economic pressure on China is good because we have to do something to support the Uighurs. But fighting pandemics seems like a good example of the...

      Some folks have argued recently that putting more economic pressure on China is good because we have to do something to support the Uighurs. But fighting pandemics seems like a good example of the benefits of international cooperation and trust, and what can happen when that cooperation breaks down. There are other issues like this, such as climate change.

      But I'm not saying it's good or bad; I'm checking the "it's complicated" box. Maybe decisions shouldn't be made based on a single issue?

      1 vote
      1. [4]
        cfabbro
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        Sorry, but when that "single issue" is "they are actively committing genocide" I think it should. There is nothing "complicated" about it at this point IMO, as that is a line being crossed that we...

        Maybe decisions shouldn't be made based on a single issue?

        Sorry, but when that "single issue" is "they are actively committing genocide" I think it should. There is nothing "complicated" about it at this point IMO, as that is a line being crossed that we cannot afford to ignore just for the sake of "cooperation and trust". I genuinely think it's time we in the West started sanctioning them severely unless they stop what they are doing, and that stance isn't just to "support the Uighurs" (which is a remarkably deceptive and euphemistic way of framing it), it's about preventing them from disappearing as a people entirely!

        See: China cuts Uighur births with IUDs, abortion, sterilization

        7 votes
        1. [3]
          skybrian
          Link Parent
          Do you think it was okay to fight on the same side as Stalin to win World War 2? To cooperate with the Soviet Union to eliminate smallpox?

          Do you think it was okay to fight on the same side as Stalin to win World War 2? To cooperate with the Soviet Union to eliminate smallpox?

          4 votes
          1. [2]
            cfabbro
            (edited )
            Link Parent
            To answer your incredibly loaded questions: That's a false equivalence, since we are not currently in a global war with an aggressive (also genocidal) regime hellbent on world conquest who has...

            To answer your incredibly loaded questions:

            Do you think it was okay to fight on the same side as Stalin to win World War 2?

            That's a false equivalence, since we are not currently in a global war with an aggressive (also genocidal) regime hellbent on world conquest who has already taken over most of Eastern Europe. And unlike with Stalin we do potentially have the power to force China to reconsider their efforts at committing genocide without having to go to war with them due to them still being economically reliant on us for a great many things.

            To cooperate with the Soviet Union to eliminate smallpox?

            That's a false dilemma. Just like working with the Soviets to eliminate smallpox, we can still work with the Chinese on COVID while also fully condemning their actions, and threatening sanctions against them if they refuse to stop committing their genocide. And if that act triggers them to stop cooperating, that is on them, not us.

            So now I'm gonna throw some loaded questions back to you... What lengths do you think are appropriate to go to in order to stop the Chinese from continuing their genocide? Which is more important, stopping the genocide currently underway by the Chinese, or maintaining their cooperation so we can hypothetically save lives in the future?

            Edit: removed a personal dig. Sorry for getting worked up and making it a bit too personal, @skybrian. It was inappropriate of me.

            4 votes
            1. skybrian
              Link Parent
              I think this is a good answer. I'm not sure how far we should really go beyond threats, though. Tariffs are one thing, but would it be worth splitting the world into two separate trading blocks...

              Just like working with the Soviets to eliminate smallpox, we can still work with the Chinese on COVID while also fully condemning their actions, and threatening sanctions against them if they refuse to stop committing their genocide.

              I think this is a good answer.

              I'm not sure how far we should really go beyond threats, though. Tariffs are one thing, but would it be worth splitting the world into two separate trading blocks over this? I think some countries might pick the other side, if forced to choose. Probably it wouldn't go that far, though.

              Note that's it's also hypothetical that these actions would help the Uighurs in any material way.

              1 vote
  2. [3]
    Omnicrola
    Link
    This is an really well-written article, thanks for finding this. It thoroughly and methodically lays out the history of pandemic preparedness and points out how all the pieces should have been in...

    This is an really well-written article, thanks for finding this. It thoroughly and methodically lays out the history of pandemic preparedness and points out how all the pieces should have been in place to deal with this, except Trump walked in and kicked the table over and sent the pieces flying.

    2 votes
    1. [2]
      skybrian
      Link Parent
      It's quite good but I think the analogy gets strained when it compares the President of the United States to a the pilot of an airplane. The airplane has no mind of its own and the pilot doesn't...

      It's quite good but I think the analogy gets strained when it compares the President of the United States to a the pilot of an airplane. The airplane has no mind of its own and the pilot doesn't have to convince it of anything. Once the coronavirus has reached a country, it is really up to the people to stop it and the President is one of the people that should be trying to convince them to do the right thing.

      1. Omnicrola
        Link Parent
        It is strained in some places, but I do like his general thought experiment imagining what an NTSB report would be like for this entire debacle. Really there should be a post-mortem on this entire...

        It is strained in some places, but I do like his general thought experiment imagining what an NTSB report would be like for this entire debacle.

        Really there should be a post-mortem on this entire presidency. Titled : "How the fuck do we make sure this never happens again?"

        2 votes