13 votes

Weekly coronavirus-related chat, questions, and minor updates - week of July 6

This thread is posted weekly, and is intended as a place for more-casual discussion of the coronavirus and questions/updates that may not warrant their own dedicated topics. Tell us about what the situation is like where you live!

53 comments

  1. [8]
    mrbig
    (edited )
    Link
    Today was my virtual “girlfriend’s” birthday. I don’t deny this anymore: COVID “gave me” a virtual romantic relationship, something I avoided my entire life. We haven’t met yet. We speak every day...

    Today was my virtual “girlfriend’s” birthday. I don’t deny this anymore: COVID “gave me” a virtual romantic relationship, something I avoided my entire life. We haven’t met yet.

    We speak every day and it’s freaking hard. It also gives me perspective. Most people are pretty quick in 2020 and it’s easy to skip important steps.

    Brazil is fucked in terms of new cases. She lives in the same city, but it’s a big city. We’re both with elderly relatives and she’s understandably concerned because her grandmother is literally 100+ years old. We won’t see each other any time soon.

    I sent loving messages and had a pie delivered at her house. It’s nice “being” with her, but it’s painful to deal with an excess of unmet desires. Oh, well.

    11 votes
    1. [2]
      Omnicrola
      Link Parent
      Awww, that's super sweet (both literally and figuratively). I'm glad you've found some companionship even if it isn't necessarily what you where looking for. We all need people to lean on.

      had a pie delivered at her house

      Awww, that's super sweet (both literally and figuratively). I'm glad you've found some companionship even if it isn't necessarily what you where looking for. We all need people to lean on.

      9 votes
      1. mrbig
        Link Parent
        Thanks! This is certainly not how I planned this, but she gave me reasons to believe that it’s worth it!

        Thanks!

        This is certainly not how I planned this, but she gave me reasons to believe that it’s worth it!

        5 votes
    2. [3]
      AnthonyB
      Link Parent
      I'm going through a similar experience with someone I met online during the pandemic. Like you, it was something I never thought I would do (unless I went to prison - something I haven't planned...

      I'm going through a similar experience with someone I met online during the pandemic. Like you, it was something I never thought I would do (unless I went to prison - something I haven't planned on doing). It is tough to get closer to someone without being able to see them in person. I feel for you. This is a bit of a left turn, but if you don't mind sharing, have there been any unexpected benefits? In my case, knowing we wouldn't see each other anytime soon gave us a carefree approach during the early stages. Neither of us really hid our insecurities and we were both really open about stuff, allowing us to really be ourselves rather than falling into the common trap of creating an alternate version that we think might be more appealing. It's nice having time to lay the foundation for a strong relationship for when the day comes where we can finally be together, but some days are pretty tough.

      I've contemplated posting about this for a while. I've been really fortunate to be in a position where I continue to get paid despite not being able to work, so I've been able to use a lot of this time for personal growth. I understand that my situation is incredibly rare and that many people are going through a difficult time right now, so I didn't want to come into this space with tales of my good fortune, but I would still encourage everyone to explore dating opportunities despite having to stay at home. I've always sucked at dating apps and had literally never had a good experience prior to this, but you never know when or where you'll meet the right person. Having something to look forward to makes quarantine a little bit easier.

      7 votes
      1. [2]
        mrbig
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        I’m happy this is working out for you! I don’t think I could ever be carefree about anything, I’m just a classic neurotic and overthinker. But I did see some benefits: nowadays, at least in my...

        I’m happy this is working out for you! I don’t think I could ever be carefree about anything, I’m just a classic neurotic and overthinker.

        But I did see some benefits: nowadays, at least in my region and age group, most people have sex quickly and there’s an expectation to progress to a serious relationship in very short time. This frequently leads to too much pressure, unnecessary insecurity and uncertainty. I think we definitely benefited from not being able to do that. Our emotional involvement is growing in a more organic and powerful fashion.

        I also think that sex, when it happens, will greatly benefit from the increased familiarity and knowledge about each other.

        Even if this doesn’t become a long term relationship, I intend to use this lesson in the future. It’s probably kinda weird for a dude to say he wants to wait some time before having sex with a new partner, buck fuck it: I’m gonna do it.

        6 votes
        1. Omnicrola
          Link Parent
          Speaking as a dude, no it's not. You do you. Your emotions are yours, and they are valid. I was raised in a conservative family, and even after walking away from my religion I still had a lot of...

          It’s probably kinda weird for a dude to say he wants to wait some time before having sex with a new partner, buck fuck it: I’m gonna do it

          Speaking as a dude, no it's not. You do you. Your emotions are yours, and they are valid. I was raised in a conservative family, and even after walking away from my religion I still had a lot of social norms embedded in me. I confused a few women when I declined sexy times because I wasn't comfortable with the idea yet.

          6 votes
    3. [2]
      kfwyre
      Link Parent
      That's wonderful! My husband and I spent the first several months of our relationships doing distance dating online before ever meeting in person, and it was great for us. It sounds like you and...

      That's wonderful! My husband and I spent the first several months of our relationships doing distance dating online before ever meeting in person, and it was great for us. It sounds like you and your girlfriend are going through something similar! In these troubled and lonely times, it's nice to know people are still making connections. I have no doubt she loved the messages and the pie!

      6 votes
      1. mrbig
        Link Parent
        Not actually my girlfriend, even though it feels like it and is pretty much the same in most major aspects! I don’t really look for virtual entanglements so I don’t have any experience with this...

        Not actually my girlfriend, even though it feels like it and is pretty much the same in most major aspects! I don’t really look for virtual entanglements so I don’t have any experience with this arrangement. If we were presencial, than yes, I would be taking more concrete and explicit steps in that direction. But that’s were we’re headed anyway, no doubt about it.

        And she did like it!

        3 votes
  2. [6]
    Deimos
    (edited )
    Link
    Harvard announced today that first-year students are welcome to live in the dorms on campus, but that all classes will be done remotely anyway, so they'll just be doing online learning from their...

    Harvard announced today that first-year students are welcome to live in the dorms on campus, but that all classes will be done remotely anyway, so they'll just be doing online learning from their rooms. No reduction in tuition, and sounds like there will be quite a few restrictions, including not being able to go into almost all of the other buildings:

    All students living on campus will be required to sign a community compact agreeing to new health measures, which include mandatory video training, daily symptom attestation, viral testing every three days, participation in contract tracing, and standard safety practices such as wearing masks and physical distancing. Students who test positive will be isolated and cared for by medical professionals at Harvard University Health Services, which is preparing quarantine accommodations for up to 250 individuals.

    Inter-House access to other residences and dining areas, as well as to non-residential Harvard buildings, will be restricted, with the exception of University Health Services. Harvard Athletics has not yet determined a date for reopening recreational facilities. Harvard Library’s physical spaces remain closed. No off-campus visitors will be allowed into student residences, including enrolled Harvard students who are not in residence on campus.

    10 votes
    1. [4]
      spit-evil-olive-tips
      Link Parent
      Some more college-related news: https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/sevp-modifies-temporary-exemptions-nonimmigrant-students-taking-online-courses-during More shortsighted and coldhearted...

      Some more college-related news:

      https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/sevp-modifies-temporary-exemptions-nonimmigrant-students-taking-online-courses-during

      Nonimmigrant F-1 and M-1 students attending schools operating entirely online may not take a full online course load and remain in the United States. The U.S. Department of State will not issue visas to students enrolled in schools and/or programs that are fully online for the fall semester nor will U.S. Customs and Border Protection permit these students to enter the United States. Active students currently in the United States enrolled in such programs must depart the country or take other measures, such as transferring to a school with in-person instruction to remain in lawful status. If not, they may face immigration consequences including, but not limited to, the initiation of removal proceedings.

      More shortsighted and coldhearted immigration policy from the Trump administration.

      8 votes
      1. Deimos
        Link Parent
        Oh wow, so then it won't even be an option for an international Harvard student to live on-campus (or anywhere else in the US). It's going to be fascinating to see what happens to higher education...

        Oh wow, so then it won't even be an option for an international Harvard student to live on-campus (or anywhere else in the US).

        It's going to be fascinating to see what happens to higher education this year. I'd hate to be someone that just graduated high school and trying to figure out what the hell they're going to do.

        8 votes
      2. kfwyre
        Link Parent
        That is devastating. The disruption caused by COVID-19 for any student is already difficult enough, and we're choosing to make that far worse for international students by forcing them to either...

        That is devastating. The disruption caused by COVID-19 for any student is already difficult enough, and we're choosing to make that far worse for international students by forcing them to either uproot most of their current enrollments or face deportation. Completely heartless.

        5 votes
      3. Deimos
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        Harvard and MIT filed a lawsuit over this today, seeking a temporary restraining order prohibiting enforcement of the order. Harvard release: Supporting International Students MIT release: MIT and...

        Harvard and MIT filed a lawsuit over this today, seeking a temporary restraining order prohibiting enforcement of the order.

        Harvard release: Supporting International Students

        MIT release: MIT and Harvard file suit against new ICE regulations

        Separate post about this in ~news.

        3 votes
    2. Parliament
      Link Parent
      I hope that other universities implement measures this stringent (and go 100% online), but I don't expect it and doubt they have the resources for it like Harvard does. If I were starting at...

      I hope that other universities implement measures this stringent (and go 100% online), but I don't expect it and doubt they have the resources for it like Harvard does. If I were starting at Harvard this fall though, I'd feel comfortable with those measures, and I would definitely prefer being there over home. And I like my parents! Even with classes entirely online, you're at least getting to make new friends and be around other people going through the same difficult process together. That said, I don't agree with charging the same amount of tuition because the experience has changed, and so has the value of that experience. There is no doubt about it.

      3 votes
  3. patience_limited
    (edited )
    Link
    So my locale has had a huge (per unit of population, anyway) case spike over the 4th of July holiday weekend. Northern Lower Michigan is a fairly representative microcosm of the impact of...

    So my locale has had a huge (per unit of population, anyway) case spike over the 4th of July holiday weekend. Northern Lower Michigan is a fairly representative microcosm of the impact of privileged travelers on service industry workers (and ultimately, their communities) in tourist destinations. I served travelers from Oklahoma, Mississippi, and multiple states adjacent to Michigan, then left work this evening to see a car with a Texas license plate parked next to mine.

    We're taking all conceivable precautions - windows open, masks on, marked 6 foot distances, limited occupancy, constant sanitizing, no indoor seating or by-the-glass sales, etc., but aside from the paychecks, this all feels very inessential.

    I'm feeling extra hateful because tipping also seems to be inessential for many of the patrons, especially the young, clearly affluent beachgoers.

    In the U.S., at least, it's impossible to discuss COVID-19 without confronting the intersection of inequality and public health.

    7 votes
  4. [3]
    Gaywallet
    Link
    US formally withdraws from WHO
    6 votes
    1. RapidEyeMovement
      Link Parent
      I am not entirely against this action, as a symbolic move. While Trump is using the WHO as cover for his utter mismanagement, criminal negligence, profiteering, and spiteful partisan rhetoric. I...

      I am not entirely against this action, as a symbolic move.

      While Trump is using the WHO as cover for his utter mismanagement, criminal negligence, profiteering, and spiteful partisan rhetoric. I do not have enough time or energy to put the full venom that I have towards him here But I do believe the WHO's handling of this crisis has not been without problems or concerns.

  5. [2]
    skybrian
    Link
    UC Berkeley COVID-19 Cases Jump; Series Of Fraternity, Sorority Parties Blamed [...]

    UC Berkeley COVID-19 Cases Jump; Series Of Fraternity, Sorority Parties Blamed

    The number of positive cases on campus increased from a running total of 23 since the start of the pandemic to 47 new cases in just one week, according to the statement.

    [...]

    “The majority of these new cases stem from a series of recent parties connected to the CalGreek system, which included students both within the CalGreek community and others, and led to some secondary spread within households and within other smaller gatherings,” said the statement. “Generally, these infections are directly related to social events where students have not followed basic safety measures such as physical distancing, wearing face coverings, limiting event size, and gathering outside.”

    6 votes
  6. [2]
    spit-evil-olive-tips
    Link
    A summer camp run by a Christian group in Missouri has shut down after more than 80 children and staffers tested positive for the coronavirus, health officials said. Doesn't make me optimistic...

    A summer camp run by a Christian group in Missouri has shut down after more than 80 children and staffers tested positive for the coronavirus, health officials said.

    As part of more than 30 measures being taken to prevent an outbreak, staff were said to have installed "medical-grade air filtration systems" and hand sanitizers in each cabin, while requiring the campers to sleep head-to-foot.

    Parents also had to complete a form asserting that their child had self-quarantined for 14 days prior to heading off for camp.

    Doesn't make me optimistic about schools re-opening in the next few months...

    6 votes
    1. Omnicrola
      Link Parent
      Right. Because orienting people head-to-foot is going to make a huge difference when you're in a confined space for 6+ hours.

      while requiring the campers to sleep head-to-foot

      Right. Because orienting people head-to-foot is going to make a huge difference when you're in a confined space for 6+ hours.

      4 votes
  7. Omnicrola
    Link
    Trump Wears Mask In Public For First Time During Walter Reed Visit Right.

    Trump Wears Mask In Public For First Time During Walter Reed Visit

    "You're in a hospital setting, I think it's a very appropriate thing," Trump said during a Thursday interview with Sean Hannity on Fox News. "I have no problem with a mask. I don't think you need one when you're tested all the time, everybody around you is tested."

    Right.

    6 votes
  8. [2]
    Omnicrola
    (edited )
    Link
    Our Minds Aren't Equipped for This Kind of Reopening - talking about how the decisions involving complex mortal reasoning and risk assessment lead us all into a batch of cognitive biases, with...

    Our Minds Aren't Equipped for This Kind of Reopening - talking about how the decisions involving complex mortal reasoning and risk assessment lead us all into a batch of cognitive biases, with less than ideal outcomes.

    Basically, this is why we need strong leadership in difficult times. Because individual people are always going to be inclined to decide a complex problem in favor of their own interests.

    5 votes
    1. Gaywallet
      Link Parent
      Great article - it's summarized some of my own thoughts and practices much better than I had the words for.

      Great article - it's summarized some of my own thoughts and practices much better than I had the words for.

      3 votes
  9. [6]
    Algernon_Asimov
    Link
    President Bolsonaro of Brazil Tests Positive for Coronavirus Please let him get sick enough to end up in hospital, like UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson.

    President Bolsonaro of Brazil Tests Positive for Coronavirus

    Please let him get sick enough to end up in hospital, like UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson.

    5 votes
    1. pvik
      Link Parent
      I think even if he ends up in the hospital, as long as he recovers, I see him spouting more bullshit about the Coronavirus like "`tis but a little flu"

      I think even if he ends up in the hospital, as long as he recovers, I see him spouting more bullshit about the Coronavirus like "`tis but a little flu"

      6 votes
    2. [4]
      mrbig
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      But not enough for him to die. Bolsonaro is an incompetent far right politician that only spent two years in the armed forces and never amounted to anything. The Vice President is a far right Army...

      But not enough for him to die. Bolsonaro is an incompetent far right politician that only spent two years in the armed forces and never amounted to anything. The Vice President is a far right Army general that is very much not an incompetent. He has a much greater chance of unifying the right via dictatorship.

      5 votes
      1. [3]
        Algernon_Asimov
        Link Parent
        That's why I specifically said sick, not dead.

        But not enough for him to die.

        That's why I specifically said sick, not dead.

        2 votes
        1. [2]
          mrbig
          Link Parent
          Yes of course. Forgive me for being a bit irrational. I’m actually scared.

          Yes of course. Forgive me for being a bit irrational. I’m actually scared.

          8 votes
  10. Deimos
    Link
    The Financial Times published a good interview with Dr. Anthony Fauci yesterday (no paywall): Anthony Fauci: ‘We are living in the perfect storm’ This detail in particular seems completely insane...

    The Financial Times published a good interview with Dr. Anthony Fauci yesterday (no paywall): Anthony Fauci: ‘We are living in the perfect storm’

    This detail in particular seems completely insane to me:

    Fauci last saw Trump in person at the White House on June 2 — and says he has not briefed the president for at least two months.

    5 votes
  11. [4]
    RapidEyeMovement
    (edited )
    Link
    Has anyone done any deep dives on masks available to the public for purchase and what are the best options? Here is what I have cobbled together, but would love to see what other people are doing...

    Has anyone done any deep dives on masks available to the public for purchase and what are the best options?

    Here is what I have cobbled together, but would love to see what other people are doing or have come up with.

    China Stand KN95 that Complies with GB 2626-2006 seem to be somewhat available online from different vendors.

    There is also the cloth mask that work with filter inserts.

    Filter Inserts

    While I wouldn't trust any of these in a hospital settings, I am looking for something better than just a home made cloth mask.

    4 votes
    1. [2]
      Algernon_Asimov
      Link Parent
      A few days ago, I ordered this mask from Australian Face Masks. It has two cotton layers surrounding a central meltblown polypropylene filter. It'll take about 3 weeks to arrive. I had done a wide...

      A few days ago, I ordered this mask from Australian Face Masks. It has two cotton layers surrounding a central meltblown polypropylene filter. It'll take about 3 weeks to arrive.

      I had done a wide search, and this was the design I liked the best, balancing comfort and function and price and availability (I did find Star Trek masks, but they're made in the USA so they're expensive and will take forever to get here).

      While I'm waiting for the cotton mask to arrive, I bought a few KN95 masks from a local hardware retailer.

      5 votes
      1. [2]
        Comment deleted by author
        Link Parent
        1. Algernon_Asimov
          Link Parent
          I called them up before I ordered. I spoke to a woman with an Australian accent. She didn't seem rehearsed. She seemed legitimately flustered while she was explaining how they've been overloaded...

          I called them up before I ordered. I spoke to a woman with an Australian accent. She didn't seem rehearsed. She seemed legitimately flustered while she was explaining how they've been overloaded with orders, and how they're streamlining their manufacturing to focus on certain colour choices.

          And there's a backstory which rings true. There has been a lot of reporting about Australian manufacturers pivoting to new product lines during this pandemic: Bundaberg Rum now makes hand sanitiser, clothing designers are making masks, and so on.

          I got a good vibe from this one.

          In response to your comment, I've checked the address listed on their Shipping & Returns page. It's in the middle of an industrial park, and there's a legitimate business operating out of that address. When I searched for that business, I found this news story about how the business owners' son "convinced his parents to keep financially afloat by temporarily making face masks".

          It looks legit. I hadn't done all this research before I made my purchase, but now I'm even more comfortable with my choice. Thanks for that.

          6 votes
    2. RapidEyeMovement
      Link Parent
      After more research, it appears that the Powecom KN95 are on the FDA's approved list. If that is worth anything in your decision process. Sidenote: While this is all listed in the first link, I...

      After more research, it appears that the Powecom KN95 are on the FDA's approved list. If that is worth anything in your decision process.

      Sidenote: While this is all listed in the first link, I have a hard time trusting what is posted along product info. Also it appears that people say the Headband Style is the only one that 'works' because it creates the best seal to your face.

      1 vote
  12. Icarus
    Link
    I had a big trip planned to fly from the west coast to east coast that I ultimately decided to cancel today. While I was prepared to take many precautions to ensure I wouldn't get infected or...

    I had a big trip planned to fly from the west coast to east coast that I ultimately decided to cancel today. While I was prepared to take many precautions to ensure I wouldn't get infected or infect others, I just couldn't live with the idea that someone's pain and suffering was my fault. Fortunately, I was able to get a refund for my airbnbs and hotel stays. Unfortunately though, American Airlines only gave me flight credit instead of my money back, which should be fucking illegal.

    I still plan on taking a few days off from work to play online games with my friends. Also really need a break from work. I acclimated to 3-day weekends and now feel the grind again from the 5-day work week.

    4 votes
  13. [2]
    Omnicrola
    Link
    There may be a shortage of cans (like, for beer) this summer due to the surge in sales from people stuck at home. 🍻

    There may be a shortage of cans (like, for beer) this summer due to the surge in sales from people stuck at home.
    🍻

    4 votes
  14. Halfloaf
    Link
    I found this to be a very nice investigation into the effectiveness of cloth masks in relation to construction and fit - it's a good piece of study that may aid in discussions with those that...

    I found this to be a very nice investigation into the effectiveness of cloth masks in relation to construction and fit - it's a good piece of study that may aid in discussions with those that aren't convinced of the effectiveness of a mask policy:

    https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsnano.0c03252

    4 votes
  15. [2]
    Kuromantis
    Link
    The US is living in an alternate history right now A mildly interesting article about how alternate history is being increasingly used to cope and engage in wishful thinking.

    The US is living in an alternate history right now

    A mildly interesting article about how alternate history is being increasingly used to cope and engage in wishful thinking.

    3 votes
    1. Omnicrola
      Link Parent
      I was legit watching The West Wing over the weekend while gaming to let my brain escape to a world where the people in charge weren't complete fuckups.

      I was legit watching The West Wing over the weekend while gaming to let my brain escape to a world where the people in charge weren't complete fuckups.

      10 votes
  16. [2]
    monarda
    Link
    First Seattle volunteer in human COVID-19 vaccine trials says she feels 'fantastic'

    First Seattle volunteer in human COVID-19 vaccine trials says she feels 'fantastic'

    A total of 45 healthy adults in Seattle received two doses of the potential COVID-19 vaccine, a month apart. The clinical trial is run by Kaiser Permanente Washington Health Research Institute.

    “Moderna released results a few weeks ago that showed the first eight of us have antibodies and that presumably that means that the vaccine should be effective against the virus,” said Haller.

    3 votes
    1. Omnicrola
      Link Parent
      We can only hope at this point. And even if it's true, we'll still have to wait months to be able to confirm it.

      and that presumably that means that the vaccine should be effective

      We can only hope at this point. And even if it's true, we'll still have to wait months to be able to confirm it.

      3 votes
  17. skybrian
    Link
    In Houston, Overwhelmed ICUs Leave COVID-19 Patients Waiting in ERs [...]

    In Houston, Overwhelmed ICUs Leave COVID-19 Patients Waiting in ERs

    Houston hospitals have been forced to treat hundreds of COVID-19 patients in their emergency rooms — sometimes for several hours or multiple days — as they scramble to open additional intensive care beds for the wave of seriously ill people streaming through their doors, according to internal numbers shared with NBC News and ProPublica.

    The increase in ambulance diversions, coupled with the spike in patients being held indefinitely in emergency rooms, are the latest indicators that Houston hospitals are straining to keep up with a surge of new coronavirus patients. ProPublica and NBC News have previously reported that a public hospital in Houston ran out of a medication to treat COVID-19 patients and that a spike in at-home deaths from cardiac arrest suggests that the death toll from the coronavirus may be higher than official statistics show.

    [...]

    While Houston’s top hospital executives have repeatedly said they can add hundreds of new intensive care beds to meet the demand, at least for the next couple of weeks, the number of patients being treated in emergency rooms demonstrates the difficulty of executing those plans in the midst of a rapidly growing crisis, officials say.

    “Those things are not like a switch-key type of activity,” said Porsa, the Harris Health System CEO, noting that his hospitals have had to send patients to hospitals outside of Houston to make room. “The bottleneck to do that is really staffing. As you can imagine, ICU nurses are not a dime a dozen. They are very hard to come by, and it takes time to actually be able to do that.”

    1 vote
  18. skybrian
    Link
    Monterey County hospitals warn we could soon tax hospital capacity

    Monterey County hospitals warn we could soon tax hospital capacity

    COVID-19 hospitalizations are not just increasing in Salinas but countywide. As of Thursday Mee Memorial in South County had one COVID-19 patient, in Salinas Natividad had 14 and SVMH had 22 and in Monterey Community Hospital of the Monterey Peninsula had 12. During the pandemic CHOMP has taken some patients from Mee Memorial , which only has four ICU beds, but currently most of CHOMP's COVID-19 patients are peninsula residents.

    "Right now we are certainly housing the highest number of COVID patients since the start of the pandemic," said Martha Blum medical director for infection prevention at CHOMP.

    CHOMP staff say they've been seeing multiple members of extended families coming in sick with COVID-19 in recent weeks. The families live in separate households but are all getting sick at the same time after socializing and the older family members are getting very sick.

    Delgado said he is worried another wave is about to hit in the wake of Fourth of July gatherings. He is asking people to do their part to slow the spread of COVID-19 by wearing masks, washing hands and avoiding large gatherings.

  19. Kuromantis
    Link
    Trump’s surprising resilience with Hispanic voters, explained Tl;dr: these are the voters who the Democratic party has focused on the least and the ones most focused on the economy; which somehow...

    Trump’s surprising resilience with Hispanic voters, explained

    Tl;dr: these are the voters who the Democratic party has focused on the least and the ones most focused on the economy; which somehow is still a Trump talking/approval point.

    1 vote