This is fantastic news. This compares well with Pfizers 38,955ish participants, 94 confirmed cases of COVID with presumably 85 taking the placebo. With so few infections, I would guess the...
This is fantastic news.
Moderna's study, done in collaboration with the National Institute of Health, looked at 30,000 participants — with half receiving a placebo.
In 95 cases of COVID-19 that developed among participants, 90 were taking the placebo.
Of the 11 people who contracted "severe" COVID-19 infections, all were taking a placebo.
This compares well with Pfizers 38,955ish participants, 94 confirmed cases of COVID with presumably 85 taking the placebo.
With so few infections, I would guess the difference between estimated 90 vs 95% effective rate could just be statistical noise.
I think they buried the lede
The company also said that the vaccine could be stored at refrigerator temperatures for up to a month — compared to Pfizer's vaccine candidate, which requires ultra-cold conditions.
This really cannot be overstated enough. This is the important information to take away from this vaccine. The Pfizer vaccine would have been logistical nightmare with the requirement of keeping...
This really cannot be overstated enough. This is the important information to take away from this vaccine.
The company also said that the vaccine could be stored at refrigerator temperatures for up to a month — compared to Pfizer's vaccine candidate, which requires ultra-cold conditions.
The Pfizer vaccine would have been logistical nightmare with the requirement of keeping the vaccine at -70° C. This means that almost any distribution model is possible. This really means that there is a light at the end of the tunnel
20 million doses available by the end of the year (two-shot vaccine, similar to Pfizer/BioNtech). 500 million to 1 billion doses during 2021. Via The Verge
20 million doses available by the end of the year (two-shot vaccine, similar to Pfizer/BioNtech). 500 million to 1 billion doses during 2021.
Moderna said it would have 20 million doses of its two-shot vaccine available by the end of 2020, and 500 million to 1 billion doses in 2021. The United States government has a deal with the company for 100 million doses of their vaccine through Operation Warp Speed, a federal program that aimed to accelerate COVID-19 vaccine development. That’s in addition to the 600 million doses of the Pfizer vaccine purchased by the US, 50 million doses of which could be available this year. That vaccine also takes two shots.
They both require the two shot approach - how often will someone mistakenly take the first shot from one and the second shot from the other, I wonder? Seems like a mixup that's almost guaranteed...
They both require the two shot approach - how often will someone mistakenly take the first shot from one and the second shot from the other, I wonder? Seems like a mixup that's almost guaranteed to happen.
Not often. This really means only one vaccine will be broadly used, because of the difference in Temp requirements. Also you would not 'just come in off the street' to get a second dose, that...
Not often. This really means only one vaccine will be broadly used, because of the difference in Temp requirements. Also you would not 'just come in off the street' to get a second dose, that would all be setup with the first appointment and the clinic would know what was given last time.
I think we will see broad use of a number vaccines that are proven safe and effective in the near future. No one vaccine maker is going to be able to make enough of their product to meet demand in...
This really means only one vaccine will be broadly used
I think we will see broad use of a number vaccines that are proven safe and effective in the near future. No one vaccine maker is going to be able to make enough of their product to meet demand in 2021. I'll hypothesize that the Moderna vaccine will be prioritized for rural areas where -80c storage is limited or unavailable while the BioNTech vaccine will get used in more developed areas.
I don't know, isn't that a weird thing to worry about? They also have to freeze that stuff at like -20°C (-70°C for the Pfitzer) and it takes a trained doctor to administer in the first place....
I don't know, isn't that a weird thing to worry about? They also have to freeze that stuff at like -20°C (-70°C for the Pfitzer) and it takes a trained doctor to administer in the first place. Which includes training to check your patient's history. It's not like you pick this stuff up from the "second shot" bin at the supermarket.
There are a lot of serious medical errors and reducing them is a big deal. Still, if the vaccine is only 95% effective, I doubt a few screwups administering the shots will move the needle much, at...
There are a lot of serious medical errors and reducing them is a big deal. Still, if the vaccine is only 95% effective, I doubt a few screwups administering the shots will move the needle much, at the population level? People not showing up for the second shot seems like a more likely problem.
The AP published an article last week that talks about some of the pieces involved: States ramp up for biggest vaccination effort in US history It includes a little about possibilities for trying...
It includes a little about possibilities for trying to make sure people get the second dose:
Because of the likely need for two doses given three or four weeks apart, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is considering ways of helping Americans remember the second shot, including issuing cards that people would get with their first shot, akin to the polio immunization cards many older Americans remember carrying.
Many people will likely need additional prodding.
In a rural part of South Carolina, one community health center is planning multiple reminders, including text messages and calls from health workers.
Still, “there will still be some that slip through the cracks,” said Ann Lewis, CEO of CareSouth Carolina, which runs the health centers.
Well, consider that this vaccine is going to be fought over like crazy, everywhere. Standard medical incompetence (which is very real) is now augmented by both covid fatigue and what is sure to be...
Well, consider that this vaccine is going to be fought over like crazy, everywhere. Standard medical incompetence (which is very real) is now augmented by both covid fatigue and what is sure to be a crazy supply chain and the logistical nightmare of taking it everywhere in the world. I see a pretty wild ride coming for the medical profession. They don't typically have to do something like this on such a large scale.
Mistakes are going to get made. Shit's going to get stolen. Freezers are going to fail. Deadlines are going to be missed - and likely often. Stability and certainty are going to be in short supply, at least at first. It'll settle as there's a larger supply.
I'm sure we'll have an epic 'lessons learned' bible by the end of this pandemic. We should be a lot better prepared for them in the future and more willing to do something about it considering the consequences for letting one get loose and go on a weak little rampage. Imagine how much worse it would be if this thing had a 30% death rate instead of sub-1%.
This video by Wendover Productions seems like a pretty good video on what is to come: Why distributing the COVID vaccine will likely be the greatest logistical challenge ever I wonder how this...
I wonder how this vaccine will be politicized. Bolsonaro has already said what's basically a "lolno" and I wonder what else will follow.
Another thing I wonder is how many times could people fall into the 5% of unsuccessful attempts. (Or if that's how it works at all). Some (very) simple calculations say under a million people would fall into the 5% 3 times and 6 people could do it 7 times, which sounds like an easy way to get some shallow attention.
Wait, is that actually how it works? I kind of assumed that it was ineffective for some fundamental reason in 5% of people and as such repeating the same vaccine would not be effective on the...
Wait, is that actually how it works? I kind of assumed that it was ineffective for some fundamental reason in 5% of people and as such repeating the same vaccine would not be effective on the second try.
In any case, you're not going to get tested for antibodies after vaccination anyway, so I'd expect the most likely way anyone finds out the vaccine wasn't effective for them is by getting COVID.
Do you mean "high" relative to the Pfizer vaccine, or just in general? This vaccine still requires -20 degree storage, so not exactly "high temperature". It's my understanding that the...
Do you mean "high" relative to the Pfizer vaccine, or just in general? This vaccine still requires -20 degree storage, so not exactly "high temperature". It's my understanding that the Pfizer/BioNTec vaccine just wasn't tested for storage at higher temperatures and it may well survive just fine at -20.
Perhaps semantics on a forum like this, but that is fairly high temperature for RNA storage beyond days or weeks. "High" in the same sense that even liquid nitrogen is high temp for...
Do you mean "high" relative to the Pfizer vaccine, or just in general? This vaccine still requires -20 degree storage, so not exactly "high temperature".
Perhaps semantics on a forum like this, but that is fairly high temperature for RNA storage beyond days or weeks. "High" in the same sense that even liquid nitrogen is high temp for superconductors. Single-stranded RNA is very unstable in water, for a few reasons. Which is why most living organisms use DNA.
This is fantastic news.
This compares well with Pfizers 38,955ish participants, 94 confirmed cases of COVID with presumably 85 taking the placebo.
With so few infections, I would guess the difference between estimated 90 vs 95% effective rate could just be statistical noise.
I think they buried the lede
This really cannot be overstated enough. This is the important information to take away from this vaccine.
The Pfizer vaccine would have been logistical nightmare with the requirement of keeping the vaccine at -70° C. This means that almost any distribution model is possible. This really means that there is a light at the end of the tunnel
I foresee myself taking a solid month off of work some time next year. Haven't really had any reason to take time off since March.
20 million doses available by the end of the year (two-shot vaccine, similar to Pfizer/BioNtech). 500 million to 1 billion doses during 2021.
Via The Verge
They both require the two shot approach - how often will someone mistakenly take the first shot from one and the second shot from the other, I wonder? Seems like a mixup that's almost guaranteed to happen.
Not often. This really means only one vaccine will be broadly used, because of the difference in Temp requirements. Also you would not 'just come in off the street' to get a second dose, that would all be setup with the first appointment and the clinic would know what was given last time.
I think we will see broad use of a number vaccines that are proven safe and effective in the near future. No one vaccine maker is going to be able to make enough of their product to meet demand in 2021. I'll hypothesize that the Moderna vaccine will be prioritized for rural areas where -80c storage is limited or unavailable while the BioNTech vaccine will get used in more developed areas.
In a perfect world, sure, but there will be nothing remotely perfect about how this vaccine gets distributed or administered, I think.
I don't know, isn't that a weird thing to worry about? They also have to freeze that stuff at like -20°C (-70°C for the Pfitzer) and it takes a trained doctor to administer in the first place. Which includes training to check your patient's history. It's not like you pick this stuff up from the "second shot" bin at the supermarket.
There are a lot of serious medical errors and reducing them is a big deal. Still, if the vaccine is only 95% effective, I doubt a few screwups administering the shots will move the needle much, at the population level? People not showing up for the second shot seems like a more likely problem.
The AP published an article last week that talks about some of the pieces involved: States ramp up for biggest vaccination effort in US history
It includes a little about possibilities for trying to make sure people get the second dose:
I didn't know about Polio Pioneer cards, now I do. That's a nice bit of history. I wonder what artifacts will come out of the 2021 vaccination effort.
Well, consider that this vaccine is going to be fought over like crazy, everywhere. Standard medical incompetence (which is very real) is now augmented by both covid fatigue and what is sure to be a crazy supply chain and the logistical nightmare of taking it everywhere in the world. I see a pretty wild ride coming for the medical profession. They don't typically have to do something like this on such a large scale.
Mistakes are going to get made. Shit's going to get stolen. Freezers are going to fail. Deadlines are going to be missed - and likely often. Stability and certainty are going to be in short supply, at least at first. It'll settle as there's a larger supply.
I'm sure we'll have an epic 'lessons learned' bible by the end of this pandemic. We should be a lot better prepared for them in the future and more willing to do something about it considering the consequences for letting one get loose and go on a weak little rampage. Imagine how much worse it would be if this thing had a 30% death rate instead of sub-1%.
This video by Wendover Productions seems like a pretty good video on what is to come: Why distributing the COVID vaccine will likely be the greatest logistical challenge ever
I wonder how this vaccine will be politicized. Bolsonaro has already said what's basically a "lolno" and I wonder what else will follow.
Another thing I wonder is how many times could people fall into the 5% of unsuccessful attempts. (Or if that's how it works at all). Some (very) simple calculations say under a million people would fall into the 5% 3 times and 6 people could do it 7 times, which sounds like an easy way to get some shallow attention.
Wait, is that actually how it works? I kind of assumed that it was ineffective for some fundamental reason in 5% of people and as such repeating the same vaccine would not be effective on the second try.
In any case, you're not going to get tested for antibodies after vaccination anyway, so I'd expect the most likely way anyone finds out the vaccine wasn't effective for them is by getting COVID.
Anyone know of how they managed to keep the RNA stable at high temperatures?
Do you mean "high" relative to the Pfizer vaccine, or just in general? This vaccine still requires -20 degree storage, so not exactly "high temperature". It's my understanding that the Pfizer/BioNTec vaccine just wasn't tested for storage at higher temperatures and it may well survive just fine at -20.
Perhaps semantics on a forum like this, but that is fairly high temperature for RNA storage beyond days or weeks. "High" in the same sense that even liquid nitrogen is high temp for superconductors. Single-stranded RNA is very unstable in water, for a few reasons. Which is why most living organisms use DNA.