28 votes

How a simple math error sparked a panic about black plastic kitchen utensils

23 comments

  1. sleepydave
    Link
    "No regerts" is a typo. This is a glaring error in calculation that discredits their claim on a fundamental level.

    Lead author Megan Liu, science and policy manager at Toxic-Free Future, described the mistake as a “typo” and said her co-authors have submitted a correction to the journal.

    "No regerts" is a typo. This is a glaring error in calculation that discredits their claim on a fundamental level.

    28 votes
  2. [2]
    cfabbro
    (edited )
    Link
    To all the people still concerned about this, it's worth pointing out that not all "black plastic" is the same... and even the study itself makes a clear distinction between plastic types and...
    • Exemplary

    To all the people still concerned about this, it's worth pointing out that not all "black plastic" is the same... and even the study itself makes a clear distinction between plastic types and their different BFR levels. But none of the shitty scaremongering articles I read that were based on it did. From my comment on one such article:

    ...all my kitchen utensils are nylon, which I think are great (way more rigid and thin than silicone ones). It's still a plastic but apparently it doesn't have nearly the same levels of flame retardant contamination as other plastics. The major study the article is based on, From e-waste to living space: Flame retardants contaminating household items add to concern about plastic recycling, even talks about that distinction specifically, but the article doesn't bother to mention that (as is typical for science reporting) :

    3.3. Variation in FR detection by polymer type

    Analysis for polymer type using FTIR of the 20 products that screened >50 ppm Br found that ABS and HIPS/PS were the dominant polymers (Fig. 2). ABS and HIPS/PS were found in 12 samples (60%), followed by polypropylene in 4 samples (20%). Less frequently detected polymers included poly(propylene:ethylene) (10%) and polyamide nylon (10%). Among these polymers, ABS and HIPS/PS are most associated with electronics (PINFA, 2017), and 11 out of 12 products identified as either ABS or HIPS/PS contained ∑FRs >310 mg/kg. Total FR content in ABS ranged from 310 to 8150 mg/kg, and from ND–22,800 mg/kg in HIPS/PS, which included the three products with the highest FR concentrations (all over 15,000 mg/kg).

    Total FR levels in polymers more typically used in electronics (ABS and HIPS/PS) were compared with levels in polymers not generally associated with electronics (polypropylene and polyamide/nylon). Total FR levels in ABS and HIPS/PS, with a median of 4600 mg/kg, were significantly higher than those in polypropylene and polyamide/nylon, with a median of 150 mg/kg (p < 0.01) (see Fig. S1 for a visual comparison).

    And @cdb's comment on another related study that has often been cited alongside the above one in most articles is also worth pointing out as well:

    From the linked study (2018) on transfer of BFRs to hot cooking oil.

    we collected 96 plastic kitchen utensils and screened for Br content using a hand-held X-ray fluorescence (XRF) spectrometer. Only 3 out of 27 utensils purchased after 2011 contained detectable concentrations of Br (≥ 3 μg/g). In contrast, Br was detected in 31 out of the 69 utensils purchased before 2011.

    Based on this data it seems like BFRs are largely phased out as of a decade ago. The three post-2011 utensils with detectable Br had at most 8 ppm (3 ppm detection limit). They only selected samples with more than 100 ppm bromine for GCMS analysis. Some of those GCMS samples were below detection limit for basically all BFRs, so all the utensils purchased after 2011 could be considered to be very low in BFRs.

    So I guess the title really should be "Throw out your black plastic spatula if it's over 13 years old".

    12 votes
    1. Markpelly
      Link Parent
      Obviously I don't want those chemicals in my food, but the major problem for me is that I have seen black plastic in my pan from normal cooking. Good or cheap utensils as well. I don't want...

      Obviously I don't want those chemicals in my food, but the major problem for me is that I have seen black plastic in my pan from normal cooking. Good or cheap utensils as well. I don't want chemicals or plastic in my food.

      Just get a wooden, metal, or good silicone spatula. Then you don't have to even think about it.

      3 votes
  3. [15]
    Promonk
    Link
    "C'mon, guys! It's not that bad! It's only leaking a little bit of carcinogenic flame retardant into your food! The lab mice didn't seem to mind. Well, most of them, anyway." Yeah thanks, but I...

    "C'mon, guys! It's not that bad! It's only leaking a little bit of carcinogenic flame retardant into your food! The lab mice didn't seem to mind. Well, most of them, anyway."

    Yeah thanks, but I think I'm still going to transition to bamboo.

    13 votes
    1. [12]
      tibpoe
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      There are so many other things you do that also introduce carcinogenic compounds into your body, like eating red meat or searing your food. Is avoiding this stuff a net benefit? Maybe. There's not...

      There are so many other things you do that also introduce carcinogenic compounds into your body, like eating red meat or searing your food.

      Is avoiding this stuff a net benefit? Maybe. There's not enough data. But my priors make me think the cost (let's say an hour of shopping & 2 hours of work to earn the money for replacements) is unlikely to be higher than the increased healthy lifespan, or at least for it to be close.

      20 votes
      1. [2]
        ACEmat
        Link Parent
        This has a weird Reddit vibe to it. Why is your first paragraph going after another user for just, not wanting to use plastic?

        This has a weird Reddit vibe to it. Why is your first paragraph going after another user for just, not wanting to use plastic?

        18 votes
        1. tibpoe
          Link Parent
          You're right, I'm sorry, that first paragraph was aggressive & rude. I've edited my comment to focus more on the point I was trying to make.

          You're right, I'm sorry, that first paragraph was aggressive & rude. I've edited my comment to focus more on the point I was trying to make.

          16 votes
      2. [7]
        scroll_lock
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        Comment box Scope: comment response Tone: neutral Opinion: yes Sarcasm/humor: none Not who you responded to, but unlike eating red meat or occasionally charring food, I gain nothing of value from...
        Comment box
        • Scope: comment response
        • Tone: neutral
        • Opinion: yes
        • Sarcasm/humor: none

        Not who you responded to, but unlike eating red meat or occasionally charring food, I gain nothing of value from cooking with a black plastic spatula. It doesn't make my life any better than cooking with wooden utensils, which I like more anyway. In contrast, a charred green bean is at least tasty.

        (I am avoiding red meat though, personally, for environmental and health reasons.)

        As far as dollar cost/benefit goes, the cost is lower than that because utensils are shared across the household, so the cost per hour is lower and the benefit per non-consumed microplastic is higher. I agree that it is still not that much of a benefit but it is probably a net positive.

        In general, I am interested in public health policies and actively advocate for them. But I also like to do what I can to improve my own life. I don't think these things are mutually exclusive. The benefit of doing something actively to fix the problem affecting me is partially psychological, which is at least as important as any quantitative health benefits.

        13 votes
        1. Minori
          Link Parent
          While I like wood utensils, I prefer plastic and metal utensils that can be tossed in the dishwasher. Some scrapers with wooden handles are worth hand washing, but I prefer to keep the number of...

          While I like wood utensils, I prefer plastic and metal utensils that can be tossed in the dishwasher. Some scrapers with wooden handles are worth hand washing, but I prefer to keep the number of hand wash items low.

          3 votes
        2. [5]
          SteeeveTheSteve
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          There's benefit in refusing to use plastic too, the more people rejecting plastic the greater the chance of getting rid of it or at least having more alternatives to choose from. Besides, plastic...

          There's benefit in refusing to use plastic too, the more people rejecting plastic the greater the chance of getting rid of it or at least having more alternatives to choose from.

          Besides, plastic is basically solidified crude oil. Doesn't it sound gross using solidified crude oil to cook/serve food?

          2 votes
          1. [4]
            PelagiusSeptim
            Link Parent
            I don't think you're wrong about it being good to reduce plastic use in general, but "solidified oil" could describe butter or many types of cooking fat

            I don't think you're wrong about it being good to reduce plastic use in general, but "solidified oil" could describe butter or many types of cooking fat

            4 votes
            1. [2]
              DefinitelyNotAFae
              Link Parent
              Mmmmm coconut oil

              Mmmmm coconut oil

              2 votes
              1. SteeeveTheSteve
                Link Parent
                Now I'm picturing a coconut oil utensil that oils and stirs at the same time.

                Now I'm picturing a coconut oil utensil that oils and stirs at the same time.

            2. SteeeveTheSteve
              Link Parent
              Ha, I forgot the "crude" on the second oil. I fixed it. 😋

              Ha, I forgot the "crude" on the second oil. I fixed it. 😋

      3. Akir
        Link Parent
        As it turns out, red meat for sure has a number of negative long term effects on health. So yeah, you should have as little as possible of it. It doesn’t necessarily have to be zero, but between 1...

        As it turns out, red meat for sure has a number of negative long term effects on health. So yeah, you should have as little as possible of it. It doesn’t necessarily have to be zero, but between 1 oz. and 0 oz., zero is better. And the same goes with charred food.

        These are examples that people tell you to stop worrying about things, when in reality they are things that people should worry more about.

        8 votes
      4. Promonk
        Link Parent
        Cooking utensils need replacing periodically. When I replace the few black plastic utensils I currently have, they will be replaced with wooden or bamboo versions, because those won't have...

        Cooking utensils need replacing periodically. When I replace the few black plastic utensils I currently have, they will be replaced with wooden or bamboo versions, because those won't have carcinogenic flame retardant infused into them. No panic or misplaced anxiety involved.

        5 votes
    2. stu2b50
      Link Parent
      The risk levels changed significantly, though. In particular, now you’re getting about as much bromine exposure as you’d get from… eating fresh fruit. A risk most people are willing to take. If...

      The risk levels changed significantly, though. In particular, now you’re getting about as much bromine exposure as you’d get from… eating fresh fruit. A risk most people are willing to take.

      If you want to swap away from plastics, by all means, but it’s also worth noting that no one who has used or is using black plastics particularly needs to be worrying about their life at the moment. Anxiety is also a comorbidity!

      12 votes
    3. sleepydave
      Link Parent
      From my understanding, this is still within the safe margin of TDI - definitely not ideal for the chemicals to be present at all, but I would be far more concerned about effects from pervasive...

      From my understanding, this is still within the safe margin of TDI - definitely not ideal for the chemicals to be present at all, but I would be far more concerned about effects from pervasive issues like long-term ingestion of microplastics than things at this level.

      6 votes
  4. [5]
    teaearlgraycold
    Link
    I noticed my black plastic utensils were flaking plastic off, presumably into my food, so I am glad I got rid of them. We should have less plastic near our food in general.

    I noticed my black plastic utensils were flaking plastic off, presumably into my food, so I am glad I got rid of them. We should have less plastic near our food in general.

    10 votes
    1. [4]
      stu2b50
      Link Parent
      That shouldn’t have anything to do with the results from the study.

      That shouldn’t have anything to do with the results from the study.

      4 votes
      1. [3]
        teaearlgraycold
        Link Parent
        I only checked because of the study. I have a whole set of metal utensils anyway so it was way to get rid of the plastic ones.

        I only checked because of the study. I have a whole set of metal utensils anyway so it was way to get rid of the plastic ones.

        5 votes
        1. [2]
          zini
          Link Parent
          Just stick to wood on your non stick and cast iron/carbon steel pans if you don't want to mess them up. I prefer to use silicon or wooden utensils to metal ones most of the time (not a huge fan of...

          Just stick to wood on your non stick and cast iron/carbon steel pans if you don't want to mess them up. I prefer to use silicon or wooden utensils to metal ones most of the time (not a huge fan of the sound of metal scraping metal!)

          2 votes
          1. teaearlgraycold
            Link Parent
            I have both. I should also get rid of my non-stick. I don't even use it any more, even for situations where most people call them necessary.

            I have both. I should also get rid of my non-stick. I don't even use it any more, even for situations where most people call them necessary.

            2 votes