I'm a bit curious about the [mental illness] tag. There's nothing to suggest these people are mentally ill. This is probably an example of the Linda Problem. Someone who doesn't conform to social...
I'm a bit curious about the [mental illness] tag. There's nothing to suggest these people are mentally ill.
This is probably an example of the Linda Problem. Someone who doesn't conform to social norms stabs someone. Is it more likely that they are violent, or violent and mentally ill? Basic math says it's more likely that they're violent.
We see from research that mental illness alone isn't a predictor of violence. Substance misuse is, previous violence is, and either of these combined with untreated mental illness is, but mental illness alone is only a weak predictor.
Propensity for violence, substance abuse, and reclusion are considered maladjustments and fall under the "mental health" umbrella. I think it's useful to think of those issues as such since it...
Propensity for violence, substance abuse, and reclusion are considered maladjustments and fall under the "mental health" umbrella. I think it's useful to think of those issues as such since it gives more of an incentive to work with the effected in a holistic way so that they can be integrated into society. Otherwise, you could just stamp "damaged goods" on an individual and ... ?
I think it's both unfair and inaccurate to compare shut-ins to incels. Incel-ism is a hateful ideology which inspires hatred and violence against specific groups. Hikikomori is not a life...
Exemplary
I think it's both unfair and inaccurate to compare shut-ins to incels. Incel-ism is a hateful ideology which inspires hatred and violence against specific groups. Hikikomori is not a life philosophy or ideology, it's just a name for people who withdraw from society for any number of reasons.
I'm not convinced there really is a "predilection towards violence" inherent to Hikikomori. The article says some studies find they may commit domestic violence more often, but it doesn't cite any of these studies, or say anything about overall prevalence of all kinds of violence among the group. (For one thing, any violence committed by a person who never leaves the home will be classified as domestic; the same is not true of more outgoing people, even if the overall numbers are similar.) On the other hand, everyone they interviewed said that violence committed by Hikikomori was relatively rare and was not really the big issue that needed to be addressed. And the overall point of the article is that stigma and demonization isn't really helping address anything.
Overall, I don't think it's very helpful to draw a parallel between Western incels and Japanese shut-ins. Incels by definition believe in a hateful ideology. It's not unexpected that when you reduce women to subhumans, and blame them for all your problems, you are more likely to commit violence. But not all incels are shut-ins, in fact many of them desperately try to engage with the world in order to obtain the respect, sex or romance they desire. Hell, sometimes it even works, sometimes they gain acceptance and this causes them to abandon their previous bigotry. Whereas Hikikomori do not, as a group, hold any particular ideology or belief system that would drive them towards violence, but they do, as a group, actively shun (offline) society.
If a big part of what's causing so many to not seek help for mental issues is shame, it seems not very productive to further demonize a group and liken them to an entirely different group that is defined by their hateful and violent ideology.
The hikikomori issue is a bit more complicated than that. Japanese society has a serious overworking problem. The typical salaryman there works stupidly long 80 hour weeks, mostly of unpaid...
The hikikomori issue is a bit more complicated than that.
Japanese society has a serious overworking problem. The typical salaryman there works stupidly long 80 hour weeks, mostly of unpaid overtime. A lot of this is down to managerial and social pressure to work hard and devote all your time. Despite government attempts to curb the practice, it's far more complicated than this. When the Japanese have their own word for death by overworking (karoshi), you know they have a massive problem.
It's commonly believed that hikikomori become hermits as a rejection of the salaryman lifestyle.
to say nothing of the massive, societal problem japan also has of there being intense pressure to succeed in schooling before you can even be competitive for a job in the first place, and the fact...
Japanese society has a serious overworking problem. The typical salaryman there works stupidly long 80 hour weeks, mostly of unpaid overtime.
to say nothing of the massive, societal problem japan also has of there being intense pressure to succeed in schooling before you can even be competitive for a job in the first place, and the fact that many current hikikomori were brought up during the lost decade and the (honestly, still ongoing) aftermath of that, wherein all that effort just to be competitive for work might be a pointless endeavor because it didn't guarantee you anything.
Kinda similar to Western society if you ask me. Everyone is being pushed through university on the notion that a degree will guarantee you a job, when actually everybody having a degree will...
Kinda similar to Western society if you ask me. Everyone is being pushed through university on the notion that a degree will guarantee you a job, when actually everybody having a degree will devalue the prestige of it.
I'm a bit curious about the [mental illness] tag. There's nothing to suggest these people are mentally ill.
This is probably an example of the Linda Problem. Someone who doesn't conform to social norms stabs someone. Is it more likely that they are violent, or violent and mentally ill? Basic math says it's more likely that they're violent.
We see from research that mental illness alone isn't a predictor of violence. Substance misuse is, previous violence is, and either of these combined with untreated mental illness is, but mental illness alone is only a weak predictor.
Propensity for violence, substance abuse, and reclusion are considered maladjustments and fall under the "mental health" umbrella. I think it's useful to think of those issues as such since it gives more of an incentive to work with the effected in a holistic way so that they can be integrated into society. Otherwise, you could just stamp "damaged goods" on an individual and ... ?
I think it's both unfair and inaccurate to compare shut-ins to incels. Incel-ism is a hateful ideology which inspires hatred and violence against specific groups. Hikikomori is not a life philosophy or ideology, it's just a name for people who withdraw from society for any number of reasons.
I'm not convinced there really is a "predilection towards violence" inherent to Hikikomori. The article says some studies find they may commit domestic violence more often, but it doesn't cite any of these studies, or say anything about overall prevalence of all kinds of violence among the group. (For one thing, any violence committed by a person who never leaves the home will be classified as domestic; the same is not true of more outgoing people, even if the overall numbers are similar.) On the other hand, everyone they interviewed said that violence committed by Hikikomori was relatively rare and was not really the big issue that needed to be addressed. And the overall point of the article is that stigma and demonization isn't really helping address anything.
Overall, I don't think it's very helpful to draw a parallel between Western incels and Japanese shut-ins. Incels by definition believe in a hateful ideology. It's not unexpected that when you reduce women to subhumans, and blame them for all your problems, you are more likely to commit violence. But not all incels are shut-ins, in fact many of them desperately try to engage with the world in order to obtain the respect, sex or romance they desire. Hell, sometimes it even works, sometimes they gain acceptance and this causes them to abandon their previous bigotry. Whereas Hikikomori do not, as a group, hold any particular ideology or belief system that would drive them towards violence, but they do, as a group, actively shun (offline) society.
If a big part of what's causing so many to not seek help for mental issues is shame, it seems not very productive to further demonize a group and liken them to an entirely different group that is defined by their hateful and violent ideology.
The hikikomori issue is a bit more complicated than that.
Japanese society has a serious overworking problem. The typical salaryman there works stupidly long 80 hour weeks, mostly of unpaid overtime. A lot of this is down to managerial and social pressure to work hard and devote all your time. Despite government attempts to curb the practice, it's far more complicated than this. When the Japanese have their own word for death by overworking (karoshi), you know they have a massive problem.
It's commonly believed that hikikomori become hermits as a rejection of the salaryman lifestyle.
to say nothing of the massive, societal problem japan also has of there being intense pressure to succeed in schooling before you can even be competitive for a job in the first place, and the fact that many current hikikomori were brought up during the lost decade and the (honestly, still ongoing) aftermath of that, wherein all that effort just to be competitive for work might be a pointless endeavor because it didn't guarantee you anything.
Kinda similar to Western society if you ask me. Everyone is being pushed through university on the notion that a degree will guarantee you a job, when actually everybody having a degree will devalue the prestige of it.