10 votes

These caves shouldn't exist. Or, at the very least, we can't yet explain them.

13 comments

  1. [11]
    cmccabe
    Link
    Tangential request related to Youtube posts: if anyone is ever willing to provide enough of a keyworded summary that Youtube shunners like me can use to find alternate coverage outside of Youtube,...

    Tangential request related to Youtube posts: if anyone is ever willing to provide enough of a keyworded summary that Youtube shunners like me can use to find alternate coverage outside of Youtube, you would be a hero. A Wikipedia link would always be fantastic, but anything would be nice. These teaser titles kill me, but I'm not... going... to... give in and... watch.

    2 votes
    1. [3]
      cfabbro
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      The whole premise of the video is that there is currently no definitive/conclusive explanation, because no serious archeological study on these caves has occurred yet, and so there are no...

      The whole premise of the video is that there is currently no definitive/conclusive explanation, because no serious archeological study on these caves has occurred yet, and so there are no Wikipedia links to share (at least that I could find). And even targeted keyword searches don't turn up much. About the only credible thing I could find is an older article (and related study) about various bits of similar archeological evidence on some of the islands, and in one of the other caves mentioned in the video:

      https://portuguese-american-journal.com/carthaginian-temples-found-azores/
      http://www.apia.pt/doc.php?co=118&in=0

      So, regardless of your YouTube aversion, I would still highly recommend just watching the video. The YouTuber behind the channel, Evan Hadfield (son of the astronaut), is an exceptional speaker. He's basically the Canadian version of Tom Scott, albeit often focused on far more serious history, anthropology, archeology, sociology, and political topics.

      7 votes
      1. [2]
        cmccabe
        Link Parent
        Thanks! Based on your response I also searched for “carthaginian temples azores caves” and see a few additional references. I also just found this one (which I’m assuming is related, although the...

        Thanks! Based on your response I also searched for “carthaginian temples azores caves” and see a few additional references.

        I also just found this one (which I’m assuming is related, although the coins weren’t found in a cave, and the whole thing could have been a hoax): https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carthaginian_coins_of_Corvo

        1 vote
        1. cfabbro
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          Stop assuming. Just watch the damn video. It's good, I promise! :P

          Stop assuming. Just watch the damn video. It's good, I promise! :P

          5 votes
    2. [2]
      TemulentTeatotaler
      Link Parent
      Don't know if you'd ever find it useful, there are a number of different flavors of Youtube transcription-->summarizers out there.

      Don't know if you'd ever find it useful, there are a number of different flavors of Youtube transcription-->summarizers out there.

      4 votes
      1. cmccabe
        Link Parent
        Thanks! That is pretty cool, and I hadn't heard of these. When I do feel compelled to learn about something from a Youtube video, I will definitely try this because I also have a pet peeve of...

        Thanks! That is pretty cool, and I hadn't heard of these. When I do feel compelled to learn about something from a Youtube video, I will definitely try this because I also have a pet peeve of having to watch a 5, 10, 15+ minute video when I could otherwise read the transcript faster and non-linearly.

        4 votes
    3. [5]
      Eric_the_Cerise
      Link Parent
      What exactly is the objection to youtube? Are alternative, open-source, front-ends acceptable? Like, eg, invidious? Same video on an invidious server.

      What exactly is the objection to youtube? Are alternative, open-source, front-ends acceptable? Like, eg, invidious? Same video on an invidious server.

      3 votes
      1. [4]
        cmccabe
        Link Parent
        I'm not a purist about it, but I'm just really opposed to the attention mill economy and to the increasingly dominant role of giant for-profit corporations in social media and internet media...

        I'm not a purist about it, but I'm just really opposed to the attention mill economy and to the increasingly dominant role of giant for-profit corporations in social media and internet media generally. I think it has an incredibly corrosive effect on democracy and society so I try to make a base practice of avoiding products owned by Google, Facebook, et al. And, for me, finding and supporting alternate forms of internet information is part of the resistance. But like I said, it's tough being a purist. Just a few days ago I watched a Youtube video about replacing a carburetor on my lawnmower. :)

        6 votes
        1. [2]
          teaearlgraycold
          Link Parent
          Another way to vote with your eyeballs is to give more attention to the content on YouTube that is largely about sharing knowledge of the natural world, such as the video in this post. The more...
          • Exemplary

          Another way to vote with your eyeballs is to give more attention to the content on YouTube that is largely about sharing knowledge of the natural world, such as the video in this post. The more people that watch Rare Earth, Veritasium, etc. the better. Would we not praise an attention-maximizing machine that primarily did so through scientific education?

          5 votes
          1. cmccabe
            Link Parent
            That might work within the context of Youtube, but I'm more concerned about the concentration of content in the dominion of a single for-profit corporation rather than spread across a diversity of...

            That might work within the context of Youtube, but I'm more concerned about the concentration of content in the dominion of a single for-profit corporation rather than spread across a diversity of hosts. And I'm not even sure I believe the approach fully works within Youtube. Youtube is already known for suppressing videos that are not advertiser-friendly and promoting those that encourage impulsive video watching and further engagement with the platform, two hallmark poisons of corporate social media. In my view, the more we support any content on Youtube, the more we enable the suppression of non-Google-approved content. There certainly is great content on Youtube, but I prefer to support the existence of alternate platforms (including text-based!) that will give equal weight to views that are skeptical of corporate power.

            5 votes
        2. markhurst
          Link Parent
          Well said. I feel the same way.

          Well said. I feel the same way.

          1 vote
  2. [2]
    NoblePath
    Link
    Buckminster Fuller claimed Phoenicians were the first to circumnavigate the world, and based his Dymaxion Map projection on an old Phoenician map. I couldn't find a distinct summary about this (I...

    Buckminster Fuller claimed Phoenicians were the first to circumnavigate the world, and based his Dymaxion Map projection on an old Phoenician map. I couldn't find a distinct summary about this (I think I might have first read it in Critical Path), but here's an interesting article from The New Yorker.

    1 vote
    1. cfabbro
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      Interesting article (and person). I recognize Buckminster Fuller's name from having heard it in relation to his architectural designs (e.g. the geodesic dome in Montreal), but honestly didn't know...

      Interesting article (and person). I recognize Buckminster Fuller's name from having heard it in relation to his architectural designs (e.g. the geodesic dome in Montreal), but honestly didn't know much else about him. Thanks for sharing.

      p.s. Since I was also curious about Critical Path, here's the relevant excerpt which I think you're referencing:

      Eratosthenes, in 200 B.C., measuringly calculated the circumference of Earth within 1.5-percent accuracy. He also made a map of the world running from clearly identifiable England on the northwest to the (not so convincingly identified) mouth of the Ganges in the southeast. His map included all of Africa on the south (with a reasonably accurate foreshortened profiling of South Africa, which outline could not have been included by him had not such an around-Africa-voyaging been already accomplished and reported).

      It was also around 200 b.c. — as we learned authoritatively only five years ago — that the Phoenicians sailed from the Aegean Sea to both the east and west coasts of South America. Because of the prevailing winds the west coast of South America would be much more naturally reached from the Mediterranean by first sailing southward, rounding the southern tip of Africa, crossing the Indian Ocean northeastwardly on its main current to pass just north of Australia, then turning northward with the Japan Current and the prevailing winds to transit China, Japan, and the Aleutian Islands to Alaska, and then on the same current southwardly to the west coasts of both North and South America, where the most recent deciphering of the prephonetic Phoenician code makes clear that the Phoenicians had landed. Locally documented in stone carving, this occurred circa 200 B.c. — ergo, was contemporary with Eratosthenes’ map-making. Then, after stopping on the west coast of South America, the Phoenicians probably followed the coast southward until the “Roaring Forties” winds and current swept them around the Horn into the South Atlantic, whence the northerly current took them along South America’s east coast. Here they made another stone-carving-recorded stop. Thereafter the Atlantic Gulf Stream swept them north-
      wardly, then westwardly, along the northern coast of South America, through the Lesser and Greater Antilles, all the way westward to the Panama Isthmus, then north from Yucatan into the Gulf of Mexico, then southward north of Cuba around Florida, then with the Gulf Stream, diverted northward by the Virgin and Bahama islands into the swiftly flowing North Atlantic Gulf Stream, past Cape Hatteras, Nova Scotia, south of Greenland, Iceland, and Spitzbergen, where the ice forced them to go westward until they discovered their familiar Scandinavia, British Isles, etc., from which they returned home to the Mediterranean and to Carthage on the north coast of Africa or to their capital port of Biblos on the eastern Mediterranean shore.

      I feel confident that Eratosthenes had knowledge of their circumnavigation. Without a magnetic compass, sextant, or chronometer the Phoenicians were guided only by their familiarity with star constellations and driven by prevailing ocean currents, trade winds, and angular-pattern-informative-following-of-coastlines. They kept recorded accounts of all changes in their course angularly as plotted against the star pattern and of the whole sky.

      The Phoenicians obviously had to subsist on fish and rainwater.

      As a sailor-navigator myself, I am confident that Eratosthenes would not have closed his map along its top edge if he had no knowledge of the fact that the Earth had been circumnavigated. The almost-closed, circular bay shown along the top edge of his map, which showed that such an experience occurred midway on the trips, is probably occasioned by the fact that the South and North Atlantic Gulf Stream sweeps deeply into the Caribbean Sea all the way to the isthmus of Panama and then through the Gulf of Mexico, as already recounted. (See Figs. 8 and 9.)

      Around the same year, 200 b.c., the Stoic philosopher Crates developed the first terrestrial globe — celestial globes preceded it.

      Source: https://archive.org/download/LIBRORBuckminsterFullerCriticalPath/LIBRO_R_Buckminster_Fuller_Critical_Path.pdf
      (figures mentioned in the above, from pg 34-35, are on pg 36 and 38-39)

      4 votes