23 votes

A sociologist examines the “white fragility” that prevents white Americans from confronting racism

22 comments

  1. [2]
    Pilgrim
    Link

    In a new book, “White Fragility,” DiAngelo attempts to explicate the phenomenon of white people’s paper-thin skin. She argues that our largely segregated society is set up to insulate whites from racial discomfort, so that they fall to pieces at the first application of stress—such as, for instance, when someone suggests that “flesh-toned” may not be an appropriate name for a beige crayon. Unused to unpleasantness (more than unused to it—racial hierarchies tell white people that they are entitled to peace and deference), they lack the “racial stamina” to engage in difficult conversations. This leads them to respond to “racial triggers”—the show “Dear White People,” the term “wypipo”—with “emotions such as anger, fear and guilt,” DiAngelo writes, “and behaviors such as argumentation, silence, and withdrawal from the stress-inducing situation.”

    DiAngelo addresses her book mostly to white people, and she reserves her harshest criticism for white liberals like herself (and like me), whom she sees as refusing to acknowledge their own participation in racist systems. “I believe,” she writes, “that white progressives cause the most daily damage to people of color.” Not only do these people fail to see their complicity, but they take a self-serving approach to ongoing anti-racism efforts: “To the degree that white progressives think we have arrived, we will put our energy into making sure that others see us as having arrived.”

    10 votes
    1. acr
      Link Parent
      I never even thought about the flesh toned crayon thing. There are Lego bricks called flesh and medium dark flesh. I never really thought about how that is inappropriate.

      I never even thought about the flesh toned crayon thing. There are Lego bricks called flesh and medium dark flesh. I never really thought about how that is inappropriate.

      8 votes
  2. Catt
    Link
    Really interesting read that definitely puts some interactions I've had into words. I've definitely heard the colorblindness and have seen the defensiveness.

    Really interesting read that definitely puts some interactions I've had into words.

    I've definitely heard the colorblindness and have seen the defensiveness.

    6 votes
  3. anti
    Link
    Fairly vapid article. But it's an advertisement for a book so I guess I shouldn't have expected depth. Side note, I never did get the new yorker tote bag that was promised to me years ago. REE!

    Fairly vapid article. But it's an advertisement for a book so I guess I shouldn't have expected depth.

    Side note, I never did get the new yorker tote bag that was promised to me years ago. REE!

    4 votes
  4. [6]
    chocolate
    Link
    Could we please not have racism on tildes?

    Could we please not have racism on tildes?

    4 votes
    1. [5]
      zaluzianskya
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      Would you mind elaborating on how this is racist? Asking as a white person, in case I missed something.

      Would you mind elaborating on how this is racist? Asking as a white person, in case I missed something.

      14 votes
      1. Kraetos
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        There are a lot of people who interpret any discussion about race as racist. Sometimes it's honest misunderstanding, other times it's an empty attempt at whataboutism. ("Liberals are the real...

        There are a lot of people who interpret any discussion about race as racist. Sometimes it's honest misunderstanding, other times it's an empty attempt at whataboutism. ("Liberals are the real racists!")

        9 votes
      2. [4]
        Comment deleted by author
        Link Parent
        1. zaluzianskya
          Link Parent
          I think there's a big difference between making sweeping, dismissive generalizations of marginalized groups VS observing a trend that happens amongst an oppressor group. White fragility is a real...

          I think there's a big difference between making sweeping, dismissive generalizations of marginalized groups VS observing a trend that happens amongst an oppressor group. White fragility is a real thing I've witnessed other white people exhibit. Hell, I've only just recently grown out of it myself.

          I do acknowledge this is probably very different in countries with different majority groups though.

          5 votes
        2. Diet_Coke
          Link Parent
          This is not a good definition of racism. In fact, the idea that any generalized statement about race is itself racist is a hallmark of white fragility. I would say the important question is: does...

          To me reading about how white people have white fragility is racist because the author generalises a group based on skin colour.

          This is not a good definition of racism. In fact, the idea that any generalized statement about race is itself racist is a hallmark of white fragility.

          I would say the important question is: does the author use this generalization to make it easier to oppress white people?

          The answer is no. White people are the socially empowered group. No white person is going to be denied a job because their name is Skyler or Aiden and their employer thinks that makes them sound too fragile. Whereas it is not uncommon in the States for an application to be tossed because the applicant is named Shaqwan or Jorge. This article, the paper it's about, and the viewpoints within don't enable oppression of white people and so can't be racist.

          You could say it's racially discriminatory, but even that doesn't hold water IMO. It's by a white woman for a white audience, and as a progressive white person myself it definitely lead to some self reflection.

          5 votes
        3. insomnic
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          I think I can understand if your expectation is "grouping based on skin color is racist" but the grouping on its own isn't racist - it is a defining characteristic and one that is commonly used to...

          I think I can understand if your expectation is "grouping based on skin color is racist" but the grouping on its own isn't racist - it is a defining characteristic and one that is commonly used to differentiate data sets.

          For example, drug convictions are harsher on black defendants than white defendants. That is a distinct data set and resulting observation based on skin color. The grouping isn't racist, but the fact that convictions are harsher on black defendants certainly is...

          Generalizations aren't necessarily good or bad on their own, but in their application on human interactions (particularly the more individual the interaction).

          Edit: took out a forgotten sentence fragment...

          2 votes
  5. Steppenfox
    Link
    Interesting article. The example of the friend calling a mostly-black neighbourhood 'bad' sticks with me. My first reaction was thinking that a neighborhood being dangerous is something we should...

    Interesting article. The example of the friend calling a mostly-black neighbourhood 'bad' sticks with me. My first reaction was thinking that a neighborhood being dangerous is something we should be able to talk about, and while the explanation for why black people are more likely to live in dangerous neighbourhoods is racism, that doesn't mean calling a neighbourhood bad is dangerous.

    As soon as I thought that, I had to wonder whether that was my white fragility talking. This is almost the perfect example of the difficulty with racism among the left now; anyone with sense accepts that people act and speak in certain ways due to racial bias. But when the bias is entirely subconscious, and we think we have perfectly good reasons for our behaviour, how can we tell if it is racist?

    Maybe we should just listen; that seems to be the solution of the article. I'd disagree. Unless we think that no person of colour can ever mistakenly attribute racism, then there needs to be some dialogue to avoid misunderstanding. Of course, white people have been monologuing for a long time, so we have to be careful to prevent the existing bias from unbalancing that.

    Sorry about the massive wall of text, I'm still trying to work out what I think about this.

    TL;DR: racism bad, dialogue good. Good dialogue hard.

    3 votes
  6. [5]
    phedre
    Link
    @n8thegr8 this sounds like a post you could contribute to; and if you haven't written a post on your "reddit experiment" yet, then you definitely should.

    @n8thegr8 this sounds like a post you could contribute to; and if you haven't written a post on your "reddit experiment" yet, then you definitely should.

    1 vote
    1. [4]
      Catt
      Link Parent
      FYI, paging doesn't work yet, so you may want to PM them.

      FYI, paging doesn't work yet, so you may want to PM them.

      1 vote
      1. [3]
        phedre
        Link Parent
        Oh hell, I thought it did. I saw so many people using it.

        Oh hell, I thought it did. I saw so many people using it.

        1 vote
        1. [2]
          Catt
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          Lol, yeah, I don't know why we do. Edit: I've been using it too...

          Lol, yeah, I don't know why we do.

          Edit: I've been using it too...

          1 vote
          1. Flashynuff
            Link Parent
            Habit, probably. Plus once it finally gets implemented everyone will be used to it!

            Habit, probably. Plus once it finally gets implemented everyone will be used to it!

            1 vote
  7. [7]
    Comment deleted by author
    Link
    1. [6]
      Pilgrim
      Link Parent
      I believe she talks about it a bit more further down in the article, but the idea isn't that whites should always be aware of their race, or hyper-aware, but rather that the "default" in many...

      I believe she talks about it a bit more further down in the article, but the idea isn't that whites should always be aware of their race, or hyper-aware, but rather that the "default" in many people's minds is white. I think it's less an accusation, and more an observation, that a side-effect of any sort of majority is that those in the majority view themselves and their way of life as the "default."

      4 votes
      1. [5]
        lars
        Link Parent
        Yeah. The whole default concept is new to me. It's like in the LGBT community, they call people who identify with their birth gender cis gender. I never really realized I had I guess what you...

        Yeah. The whole default concept is new to me. It's like in the LGBT community, they call people who identify with their birth gender cis gender. I never really realized I had I guess what you would call an unintentional bias in a way. I had it divided in my mind normal (which isn't a great term) and trans. To me normal just meant default configuration so I didn't see it as hurtful.

        Default configuration is kind of bad, but I don't know how else to explain how I thought.

        4 votes
        1. [4]
          Pilgrim
          Link Parent
          Well it's totally natural for us to think of ourselves as "normal" but I think as a minority you have to confront that you're not "normal" as defined by the society around, and you're reminded of...

          Well it's totally natural for us to think of ourselves as "normal" but I think as a minority you have to confront that you're not "normal" as defined by the society around, and you're reminded of that constantly.

          The cisgender thing is the same, but with gender-identification. It's a new concept, but is based on disrupting that same "default"-thinking, and one I still struggle with.

          1 vote
          1. [3]
            lars
            Link Parent
            Yeah this is my exact point. Guess I worded it badly.

            Yeah this is my exact point. Guess I worded it badly.

            1. [2]
              Pilgrim
              Link Parent
              i don't think so. I wasn't trying to argue or point out anything incorrect with what you said, just riffing off the comment :)

              i don't think so. I wasn't trying to argue or point out anything incorrect with what you said, just riffing off the comment :)

              1 vote