18 votes

Florida Board of Medicine votes to ban gender affirming care for all trans teenagers

@Erin Reed:
A dark day for trans youth.Florida Board of Medicine has just voted to ban gender affirming care for all trans teenagers.They cut the hearing early and told activists to "email them."I cry for Florida's trans youth. This was a sham hearing with fake experts. pic.twitter.com/JORaHN4uFA

21 comments

  1. [12]
    KittyCat
    Link
    An entirely undemocratic process that will lead to the deaths of children. I can't find a better source than this tweet but it appears the board are happy to go mask off with the fact that they...

    An entirely undemocratic process that will lead to the deaths of children.

    I can't find a better source than this tweet but it appears the board are happy to go mask off with the fact that they have no issues killing trans kids. Not surprising for fascists.

    It's no secret that they value the lives of cis people over trans people. Rates of detransition are startingly low (despite what some claim) and they would rather 99 trans kids die than a single cis kid start transition and decide that it's not for them.

    They also proposed (but ultimately did not go through with) the idea of creating a registry of all trans children. How about some pink triangles to go along with that?

    You can read more here

    Amazing that their "expert testimony" on trans kids included a dentist.

    Also of course worth noting the specific carve out so that they continue non consensual surgeries on intersex people. Because this was never about protecting children.

    Make no mistake that this will kill children and traumatise countless more. This board should be held accountable for the deaths they cause (but of course will not). I am a trans woman who could not transition until 18 and I would not wish that hell on anyone.

    I hope that every trans child in the state can flee or go DIY. But of course many will not have the resources or support to do so. They're only children.

    16 votes
    1. KittyCat
      Link Parent
      sorry this is all a mess and tangle of words. But as a trans person myself, this hurts. I feel for the youth of Florida and the trauma they will have to endure.

      sorry this is all a mess and tangle of words. But as a trans person myself, this hurts. I feel for the youth of Florida and the trauma they will have to endure.

      12 votes
    2. [10]
      spctrvl
      Link Parent
      God that's so incredibly fucked up. I can't even wrap my head around someone supporting that to the point of carving exemptions for mutilating intersex infants without knowing they're a mustache...

      Also of course worth noting the specific carve out so that they continue non consensual surgeries on intersex people.

      God that's so incredibly fucked up. I can't even wrap my head around someone supporting that to the point of carving exemptions for mutilating intersex infants without knowing they're a mustache twirling villain. Like, I get that it comes from valuing cisness over an inconvenient group of people whose existence threatens their shitty patriarchal authoritarian worldview, but fuck, to just lay it out on the table like that?

      As an aside, I wonder how much weaker the transphobic backlash would be if desantis hadn't squeaked into office by a few thousand votes and then started acting like he had a sweeping mandate. Motivation to vote if ever I've heard one, especially for those unfortunate enough to live in places like Florida under the GOP yoke.

      10 votes
      1. [7]
        KittyCat
        Link Parent
        they're christofascists with fucked up worldviews. They probably believe that nothing could be worse than being trans or intersex and by forcing people to hide that part of themselves, they are...

        they're christofascists with fucked up worldviews. They probably believe that nothing could be worse than being trans or intersex and by forcing people to hide that part of themselves, they are clearly doing everyone a favour. They also believe that being trans is "curable". And unfortunately they are getting bolder and bolder, and so yes, happily laying out that they want genocide.

        I would suggest the GOP deserves far worse than being voted out..

        10 votes
        1. [6]
          spctrvl
          Link Parent
          Nail on the head, just wish there was something more individuals could do about it. The most I was able to do to improve my own safety and medical security was to vote with my feet and move to a...

          Nail on the head, just wish there was something more individuals could do about it. The most I was able to do to improve my own safety and medical security was to vote with my feet and move to a better state, but that was really difficult, only really possible due to luck, doesn't exactly scale, and it's especially impractical for the people that are suffering the most from fascist shit like this. Hell of an ask for even accepting and supportive parents to uproot their lives and move hundreds or thousands of miles, and obscene that they should have to. Almost seems like the most impactful thing doable outside the system would be making sure there's robust and accessible DIY networks in place, but that's at best a short term band aid.

          6 votes
          1. [5]
            KittyCat
            Link Parent
            Outside of [redacted] I think individuals can provide support for the trans people in their lives, whether that involves helping them access DIY, therapy, or affirming doctors out of state. Or at...

            Outside of [redacted] I think individuals can provide support for the trans people in their lives, whether that involves helping them access DIY, therapy, or affirming doctors out of state. Or at the very least being the only person in their lives who sees them for who they are (even one person who does this dramatically reduces suicidality in trans youth).

            Of course individuals can also protest and perhaps even entertain the notion that voting in America does anything. But I share your sentiment that it's difficult to know what to do as an individual. Especially given that I live on the other side of the world.

            4 votes
            1. [4]
              spctrvl
              Link Parent
              I do think dismissing voting and voting-centric activism is short sighted, it's not the end all be all and direct action is at least as important, but if voting didn't matter, they wouldn't try so...

              I do think dismissing voting and voting-centric activism is short sighted, it's not the end all be all and direct action is at least as important, but if voting didn't matter, they wouldn't try so hard to stop you from doing it. Solid blue states are some of the best places in the world to be trans, and they wouldn't have gotten that way without democrats in power, even if merely having democrats in power wasn't the sole cause of their improvement.

              Voting is especially important in a place like Florida, that Hitler wannabe they've got in the governor's office, who pressures and appoints unelected fuckwits like this medical board, barely got in, is up for reelection in a week, and if he and his party hadn't been in office in the first place to ratfuck the implementation of Florida's restoration of voting rights to felons, the GOP there and nationwide would be far weaker, not to mention depriving the anti trans crusade of their most notable and powerful standard bearer.

              It's just hard to see the effects of voting in action when it's doing what it's best at, preventing an even worse world.

              8 votes
              1. [3]
                KittyCat
                (edited )
                Link Parent
                I was more trying to suggest that given the extent of gerrymandering, voting restrictions, the power of corporate lobbying and the fact that there are only two parties (who will actually get into...

                I was more trying to suggest that given the extent of gerrymandering, voting restrictions, the power of corporate lobbying and the fact that there are only two parties (who will actually get into power), both of which are pretty right wing. That voting in America is not what it should be. Of course people should still vote, the democrats are preferable to the republicans. But it's a shiniest of two turds situation.

                I also don't like the notion that the democrats really care about human rights issues. They don't (they certainly claim to but actions speak louder than words). They had sooooo long to codify roe v wade but never did, because the idea that roe v wade could be removed encouraged people to vote democrat (personal theory anyway). Now that roe v wade is gone, are they doing much to protect abortion? not really. It's banned or severely restricted in around half the country at this point.

                Similar with trans rights. They are no doubt better than the republicans. Some of them have even done good things recently. But a lot are ambivalent (especially with trans kids) and some on occasion have even voted for anti trans bills. Just recently, Biden made it so (or perhaps continued the policy? can't really tell) that trans women still have to sign up for the draft (because they were "born men" or whatever transphobic crap) and for the same reason, trans men do not.)

                Perhaps I take a simplified view of things, but if they gave a shit they would implement federal protections for all trans people (but then if they did... one less reason to vote democrat next time around). They also strike me as more pro trans assimilation than liberation, which I don't agree with.

                They are also no different than the republicans when it comes to starting (and continuing) shit overseas, supporting states like Isreal and murdering countless civilians with their overgrown military. Not to mention all the 3 letter agencies.

                (yeah im jumping between state and federal politics a lot, sorry)

                and just a nit pick on "Solid blue states are some of the best places in the world to be trans". Yeah, if you can afford to live there and afford America's insane healthcare system.

                E: I'll also say that engaging in local politics (currently seeing trans people flock to school boards to protect trans kids in schools) is a valuable thing to engage in

                2 votes
                1. [2]
                  psi
                  Link Parent
                  What you're describing isn't so much a Democratic party issue as much as a US democracy issue. Every Democrat in Congress could be replaced with a progressive, but unless they throw out the...

                  I also don't like the notion that the democrats really care about human rights issues. They don't (they certainly claim to but actions speak louder than words). They had sooooo long to codify roe v wade but never did, because the idea that roe v wade could be removed encouraged people to vote democrat (personal theory anyway). Now that roe v wade is gone, are they doing much to protect abortion? not really. It's banned or severely restricted in around half the country at this point.

                  What you're describing isn't so much a Democratic party issue as much as a US democracy issue. Every Democrat in Congress could be replaced with a progressive, but unless they throw out the filibuster (which they should!), Congress would remain equally ineffective. (Let us remember that the key holdout is a Democratic Senator from West Virginia, which Biden lost by something like 30 points in 2020.) Republicans, being more interested in maintaining the status quo, benefit from this system by default.

                  Regarding this particular point:

                  They had sooooo long to codify roe v wade but never did, because the idea that roe v wade could be removed encouraged people to vote democrat (personal theory anyway).

                  Since the inception of Roe v Wade, there has never simultaneously been a pro-choice President, a pro-choice majority House, and a pro-choice supermajority Senate (in the couple times that Democrats held a mandate in this sense, there were a handful of Democrat hold-outs who didn't support codifying Roe). Of course, there were opportunities for a Democrat-majority Senate to blow-up the filibuster in order to codify Roe, but why would they risk using up their political capital to codify a ruling, especially since such a law would hold less legal weight than the constitutional right enshrined by Roe?

                  Consider all the effort Democrats would have to undertake to codify Roe v Wade into law (which, by the way, would likely be overturned by our activist Supreme Court). Now contrast that with how little procedural effort was required from Republicans for us to reach this point. What we're witnessing is a failure of our system of governance -- I don't think it's fair to blame the Democrats, especially when Republicans are the one who propelled us into this mess.

                  8 votes
                  1. KittyCat
                    Link Parent
                    I agree with you that the US democracy is failing, and that the republicans are helping to destroy it faster. Thanks for the info on codifying roe. I did not know that!

                    I agree with you that the US democracy is failing, and that the republicans are helping to destroy it faster.
                    Thanks for the info on codifying roe. I did not know that!

                    2 votes
      2. [2]
        Thrabalen
        Link Parent
        They don't want gender-affirming care, but they'll jump at the chance for gender-assigning care.

        They don't want gender-affirming care, but they'll jump at the chance for gender-assigning care.

        7 votes
        1. KittyCat
          Link Parent
          *gender-assigning procedures

          *gender-assigning care procedures

          3 votes
  2. [9]
    teaearlgraycold
    Link
    I just don’t get how people can think gender is the fabric holding our society together.

    I just don’t get how people can think gender is the fabric holding our society together.

    4 votes
    1. [3]
      KittyCat
      Link Parent
      It's something that the right and conservative media have blown way out of proportion. They've created the idea that trans people existing is a problem. And they're using it as an election...

      It's something that the right and conservative media have blown way out of proportion. They've created the idea that trans people existing is a problem. And they're using it as an election platform.

      This isn't the first time very similar things have happened to other minorities.

      And as for gender being important.. well.. it is. It's a key part of who we are.. and when we aren't allowed to express it as we are, it's very distressing.

      This applies to cis people too. It's just that society generally does not take issue with how they "do" gender so not much exists to cause distress. Cis people are generally able to just take their gender for granted and not think about it too much. But we know from unfortunate incidents and some evil people's doings that when cis people have issues with their gender (say for example hormonal imbalances) that it causes distress.

      Cis people get gender affirming care all the time (boob jobs, labiaplasty, dick lengthening surgery, height increasing surgery, take extra testosterone / estrogen, facial plastic surgery, hair removal, treat male pattern baldness to name a few) all the time and nobody bats a eye. They don't even need to go through humiliating gatekeeping processes with psychologists / psychiatrists to access that care.

      7 votes
      1. [2]
        teaearlgraycold
        Link Parent
        I agree it’s clearly important to the individual. I see gender as a rough approximation of a real property in the human brain. But I don’t understand the insecurity people have when the...

        I agree it’s clearly important to the individual. I see gender as a rough approximation of a real property in the human brain. But I don’t understand the insecurity people have when the approximation might get slightly redefined - as though it’s too important to risk even the slightest change.

        4 votes
        1. KittyCat
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          There's a chapter / section in Julia Serano's Whipping Girl that covers your question quite well. I wish I could remember which one it was lol. I could never put it as well as her, but one thing...

          There's a chapter / section in Julia Serano's Whipping Girl that covers your question quite well. I wish I could remember which one it was lol.

          I could never put it as well as her, but one thing that I remember is that the patriarchy likes to see masculinity as an innate and permanent trait of men, that makes them superior to others (as if it were somehow hardcoded into the DNA of only those who were assigned male at birth).

          The existence of trans men shows that no, anyone can attain masculinity if they desire and the existence of trans women shows that anyone can also do away with it. In fact the very idea that one would want to do away with masculinity threatens it's status as superior under the patriarchy.

          Trans people also represent bodily autonomy for oppressed groups. Which as we've seen with abortion, is not something the patriarchy likes.

          There is of course the transphobic and homophobic crap where some men (and probably women but inverse) believe that liking a trans woman is "gay" or whatever. I don't want to get into that too much. But I think the idea that any given person that you find yourself attracted to could be trans (and that therefore you are somehow gay??) is scary to these kinds of people (who need to educate themselves imo).

          I feel like I have more to say here.. but I have stayed up way too late tonight. Maybe I will have some more thoughts tomorrow.

          E: and I don't mean to imply here that masculinity and femininity are mutually exclusive or polar opposites. The patriarchy hates masculine women and feminine men as well.

          4 votes
    2. [6]
      Comment deleted by author
      Link Parent
      1. MimicSquid
        Link Parent
        Mm. There's been a wide variety of ways that necessary household tasks have been divided across a wide variety of cultures, and a wide variety of behaviors that were associated with different...

        Mm. There's been a wide variety of ways that necessary household tasks have been divided across a wide variety of cultures, and a wide variety of behaviors that were associated with different group identities. There's plenty of examples of what you think of as strict male and female roles being performed by people of another gender, as well as situations where the various components are combined in other ways. It's very definitively not the only model that can work, and the degree to which our current model "works" is dependent on your perspective.

        10 votes
      2. TemulentTeatotaler
        Link Parent
        The premise of conservatives of the sort pushing legislation like this is that anything beyond strict gender roles, and "traditional" Christian values is something that quickly leads to moral...

        gender is the fabric holding our society together

        The premise of conservatives of the sort pushing legislation like this is that anything beyond strict gender roles, and "traditional" Christian values is something that quickly leads to moral degredation and societal collapse. Not that it is one viable model, but that it is the best and only viable model.

        I'm not a historian, but my understanding is that many cutlures were not "strict" either. Gender is bimodal and norms based on those modes are common, but when ~1/20k have Chapelle syndrome or true hermaphroditism you get exceptions like Hijras. There are also significantly more egalitarian roles and representation than Judeo-Christian cultures, like with many of the Native American tribes.

        In your later reply you seem to be using a sort of Steven Pinker line of argument of pointing to different measures that have been increasing with the advance of technology.

        If you don't try to decouple what led to those advances (and the Enlightenment wasn't millennia ago), depending where you are in the timeline, you could find yourself in a thread about a sham panel defending the peculiar institution of chattel slavery as natural and vital to holding society together that the Cornerstone Speech used:

        our new government['s] foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery—subordination to the superior race—is his natural and normal condition.

        I'm not an economist either, but from what I've heard, when you start interrogating what contributes to social flourishing, it isn't what's happening in Florida. Or red states, which are consistently underperforming. There isn't some causal line between strict gender roles or traditional values and Gini index... pretty much the opposite.

        You can look at things like innovation gap to see the cost of discrimination in the same way you can look at the impact of monopolies on consumer pricing. Intuitively it is easy to see that it is incredibly suboptimal to exclude half the gender from being able to pursue certain fields in science because their weak constitution will make them faint, or deny loans to entrepreneurs on the basis of their ethnicity instead of ideas.

        9 votes
      3. [3]
        KittyCat
        Link Parent
        as for strict male/female roles "working". They "work" for who? The patriarchy sure.. But women, lgbt people, anyone with a disability.. not so much. That system does not work for them. And it is...

        as for strict male/female roles "working". They "work" for who? The patriarchy sure..

        But women, lgbt people, anyone with a disability.. not so much. That system does not work for them. And it is a system that is long due to be done away with.

        6 votes
        1. [3]
          Comment deleted by author
          Link Parent
          1. [2]
            KittyCat
            (edited )
            Link Parent
            From my own experience as a trans woman, and from the experiences of other trans women I know. This is a system that is still very much hellbent on destroying us. At every stage of my life,...
            • Exemplary

            From my own experience as a trans woman, and from the experiences of other trans women I know. This is a system that is still very much hellbent on destroying us. At every stage of my life, patriarchy has fought me.

            As I child I dealt with constant anti trans messaging hidden in media. It told me to hide who I was and to be ashamed of myself. That was my introduction to the concept of others who felt like myself.

            School was hell being trans. I have too much trauma to elaborate on that.

            Every time I want to do something as basic as go for a pee, I have to worry if today is the day that someone takes issue with me and decides to hurt me. This effects trans people who are visibly trans far more than it does myself. It has the effect of removing us from society. Because how long can you spend outside your home without needing to use the loo?

            There is a movement out there currently aiming for the total elimination of people like me.

            It's stunning how differently people (particularly men) treat me once they learn that I am trans. I tend not to tell people anymore.

            It's stunning how different applying for a job is presenting male, presenting female and presenting openly trans.

            To access healthcare that is necessary for me to be comfortable in my own body will cost me tens of thousands of dollars. Nothing covered by insurance. Nothing covered by state healthcare. It is likely I will have to travel overseas.

            And I'm one of the lucky ones. I'm white, I pass, I have enough money to live, I live in a country that overall is pretty good for trans people and my family is reasonably ok with me being trans.

            Sorry for basically just complaining about my life at you, but I did so to illustrate why I refuse to accept that this system is working pretty well. Because it is not for me. Perhaps it works well for those that benefit.

            I don't know enough about human history to confidently comment on whether a strict binary helped the west develop or not. But I can say that there is no doubt in my mind that such a system would've caused untold damage to those it oppressed. Also, having read Magnus Hirschfelds Transvestites I can say that in a lot of the world (aside from the west) there were varying degrees of cultural acknowledgement of gender variance. A lot of which was wiped out by colonialism.

            E: and I'll add on here that a strict male/female binary will never be compatible with non binary people. Who deserve the same respect as everyone else.

            E2: Re: whoever gave me the exemplary.. yeah.. i know.

            11 votes
            1. [2]
              Comment deleted by author
              Link Parent
              1. KittyCat
                (edited )
                Link Parent
                Not offended. I don't believe you're acting out of malice. As for gay liberation.. yeah.. kinda..? it took a lot of protest and disruptive action (stonewall etc). But I don't think we have reached...

                Not offended. I don't believe you're acting out of malice.

                As for gay liberation.. yeah.. kinda..? it took a lot of protest and disruptive action (stonewall etc). But I don't think we have reached liberation yet.

                I'm not gay. I'm Bi. So I don't want to speak for gay people. But I have my own observations as gay and trans rights are closely linked.

                We currently have "don't say gay" bills and those with religious objections to gay people are pretty much free to practice their bigotry as they please. We still have homophobes in prominent positions. Hate against gay people is still accepted enough that people with those views can remain where they are.

                Conversion therapy for gay (and trans) people is still legal in a lot of the west. It's a practice that is torture plain and simple. We know it doesn't work. And yet.

                Sex education in schools is still lacking for gay (and trans) children (and straight children tbh).

                Rishi Sunak wants to bring back section 28 (or at least something analogous). And remove trans people from the equality act.

                Back when roe v wade was overturned, clarence thomas signaled that he was interested in reviewing Lawrence v. Texas and Obergefell v. Hodges. So far nothing.. and I'll hope it stays that way.

                Gay marriage was only legalised nationwide in America in 2015, In Australian 2017 and 2014 (roughly it seems to vary by location and you have to exclude northern ireland) in the UK. A child born in these years would be 7, 5 and 8 years old today respectively. That's a very short amount of time. I don't think at this point we can claim we have achieved liberation.

                I could go on but it's late and I'm tired

                I'm not denying that gay rights have come a long way (which is great!!). But they still have a long way to go imo.

                5 votes