Your problem with the NRA shouldn't be that you "don’t quite fit their mold" yet remain a member, it should be that they're racist monsters and an entrenched part of the far right machine. They're...
Exemplary
Your problem with the NRA shouldn't be that you "don’t quite fit their mold" yet remain a member, it should be that they're racist monsters and an entrenched part of the far right machine. They're not an otherwise neutral single-issue group whose members just happen to treat you poorly because you're queer. No matter your opinion on guns, you should hate the fucking NRA.
I want oppressed people armed and trained to use their weapons. That's not my problem with this. My problem is that these people are looking at organizations and rallies by the far right and acting like their only issue is that they're not nice to queer people.
This group may be fine, I don't know anything about them from outside of this article. But this sell—that gun ownership should be a point of unity with right wing militias and the like—is serious bullshit.
This week, on "Only in America"... What the fuck is this insanity? I can practically hear the NRA saying "the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun" throughout the whole...
This week, on "Only in America"...
What the fuck is this insanity? I can practically hear the NRA saying "the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun" throughout the whole article. Giving more people more weapons is not going to lead to less violence!
“America is changing. People are much more tolerant of our differences,” Stallard says. “Though there is still a lot of work to go, the fact that I can stand in front of a group of patriots as an openly trans person is a sign that we as Americans can come together and that our commonalities can outweigh our differences.”
But, ironically - and specifically to America - that commonality is a desire for deadly weapons, rather than a desire for equality and peace.
I am so glad I live in a country that is not run by gun nuts.
As an addendum to this... I was browsing the past posts on Tildes tagged "mass shootings", and stumbled across this post I'd previously missed. Here are a couple of relevant paragraphs: The Pink...
As an addendum to this...
I was browsing the past posts on Tildes tagged "mass shootings", and stumbled across this post I'd previously missed. Here are a couple of relevant paragraphs:
In fact, research has shown that gun-toting independence unleashes much more chaos and carnage than heroism. A 2017 National Bureau of Economic Research study revealed that right-to-carry laws increase, rather than decrease, violent crime. Higher rates of gun ownership is correlated with higher homicide rates. Gun possession is correlated with increased road rage.
There have been times when a civilian with a gun successfully intervened in a shooting, but these instances are rare. Those who carry guns often have their own guns used against them. And a civilian with a gun is more likely to be killed than to kill an attacker.
The Pink Pistols are actually increasing, rather than decreasing, their risk of being the victims of shootings.
EDIT: I realize I posted this in the shadows and pain of two more horrific mass shootings, and while I think the perspective I shared here is valuable, I also understand if this is the absolute...
Exemplary
EDIT: I realize I posted this in the shadows and pain of two more horrific mass shootings, and while I think the perspective I shared here is valuable, I also understand if this is the absolute wrong time to say what I've said. If anyone is troubled by this post, let me know and I can remove it. I'll also use this space as a content warning regarding gun ownership, gun culture, and violence. If those are difficult or sensitive topics for you, especially right now, I do not recommend reading my post.
I think it's important to consider this in light of individual decision-making rather than what we know from statistics. Everything you've pointed out is absolutely true, but at the individual level people likely aren't considering those factors. Instead they're choosing to arm themselves as a way of combatting personal powerlessness and fear. It's not "the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun" so much as it is "having a gun gives me a greater sense of personal security within an actively hostile environment."
I can empathize with this, especially in areas where gun ownership is pervasive. In a homophobic environment where nobody owns guns, the power imbalance is primarily one of ideology. In a homophobic environment where everybody but the queer people own guns, the power imbalance has another layer--a pervasive threat of tangible lethality.
I grew up in an environment like this, and while I never armed myself, most of the peers in my queer community carried some form of non- or less-lethal self-defense implement (usually pepper spray or a knife--often both). I would love to live in a world where these are unnecessary, but the sad reality is that they weren't choosing these because of an abstract threat we feared might come to fruition but because each of us had been direct recipients of it.
Speaking from my own experience: when someone pulls a knife on you and you have nothing to pull yourself, you don't just feel helpless, you feel stupid for not having prepared for something like this in the first place. Coming face to face with violent, irrational hatred can be cause for someone to rethink their committment to pacifism.
I think it's also important to point out how normalized guns are in firearm-friendly parts of America. I understand how absolutely absurd that is from an outside perspective, but I think it's worth considering it from an inside perspective. In the community I grew up in, guns were an everyday thing--like patio furniture or baseball. My parents had guns in the house. When I went to my uncle's house, he would show off the new additions to his gun collection. We would be excited to get to use them! When I went to my friends' houses, I could see their gun cabinets or gun safes. We played with capguns and waterguns when we were kids, then quickly moved on to BBs and pellets. After that it was a .22 rifle. I don't remember the exact age, but I was almost certainly firing actual guns with actual killing power by the time I was 12. Far younger than that if you consider that even a BB gun can be lethal under the right circumstances.
To people that grew up in this kind of environment, buying a gun isn't the kind of showstopper, philosophical consideration many outside those communities want it to be. Instead, it has a sort of thoroughly mundane quality that can be hard to swallow. In the same way that I might go to the store to pick up a slow cooker, I might also get a gun and think little more of it than the prior purchase. On the drive home, I might look forward to what I'd cook for dinner in my new Crock Pot just as I would consider sighting in my new firearm. I am not saying this is right or how things should be (it's not, and it shouldn't be); I am simply saying that this is just how it is for many Americans.
I will also qualify, in the interest of fairness, that the sort of cavalier acceptance of guns doesn't necessarily mean a cavalier attitude towards their potential for harm. As I grew up I was constantly reminded and taught about gun safety. My parents had trigger locks on all the guns in our home, and ammunition was kept in a separate locked box. I was taught never to put my finger on the trigger until I was ready to fire, and I was taught to never, EVER, under any circumstances, point a gun at anything I did not intend to shoot at. Even if the gun wasn't ready to fire. Even if it was fully unloaded. It didn't matter because you always, always, ALWAYS respect its power and potential for harm. This was not a guideline, it was an inviolable rule, and breaking it meant severe and certain punishment.
Furthermore, firing a high-powered rifle, hearing the severity of its report (even with earplugs), and fighting to contain the violent recoil takes the appreciation for its lethality beyond an intellectual one and into a level that's far more primal and visceral. Firing a real gun for the first time is a heart-stopping event that makes you genuinely appreciate its heart-stopping power. This gets further cemented for those that go hunting, as seeing an animal die from a gunshot affirms guns' potential for finality.
Not all gun owners have this appreciation, but many--maybe even most--do. I was on the jury for a case that involved firearms, and the members of the jury who were gun owners were far more harsh in their assessments of the defendant because he had violated many basic precepts of gun safety. To them, this was unconscionable because their view of gun ownership includes a default level of appreciation for their power and lethality. They believe anyone who violates that sanctity is personally (and potentially criminally) negligent. They saw the defendant's lack of concern for safety as immoral and malignant in a way that others in the room were willing to handwave away as a form of benign ignorance.
I say all of this not to defend gun ownership but to contextualize it. America absolutely has a gun problem, and the solution to it is absolutely NOT more guns, but how do you tell that to someone who is in the middle of an arms race in their community? When everybody around them is not only stockpiling and carrying, but everyone around them is also actively hostile to who they are? Furthermore, how do you tell them not to get a gun when, for them, it's seen as a simple tool that they know, appreciate, and have used since childhood?
Of course this isn't necessarily universal, but it's probably a lot more common than you think. It was my story when I first became aware of the Pink Pistols roughly 15 years ago. I'd be lying if I said I simply dismissed their platform out of hand. Instead, their message had a lot of resonance for someone like me who was simultaneously equipped with the prerequisite skills to use a gun and the prerequisite fear to feel like it was necessary.
Could you please not be reasonable and insightful? You're kinda killin' my buzz. I am generally aware of all this (as much as an outsider can be). But, from an outsider's point of view, the gun...
Could you please not be reasonable and insightful? You're kinda killin' my buzz.
I am generally aware of all this (as much as an outsider can be). But, from an outsider's point of view, the gun culture in the USA is borderline insane. People shoot each other up, and then protect themselves by adding more weapons to the mix. The idea that guns are as normal as kitchen implements is not healthy. You lot have created a culture for yourselves which is toxic - almost literally, in that it's killing people.
As for your statement that pacifism as an ideal is great until you find yourself face to face with irrational, violent hatred... you think I haven't been there? As I was telling a group of LGBT people recently, being bullied or assaulted is something that, sadly, many LGBT people have faced. It's one of our common lived experiences.* Okay, my bullies and attackers weren't armed with guns, but I have faced violence - and responded non-violently. Violence is not the only response to violence. To quote Gandhi, an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
* I'm tempted to @-tag someone to follow up a discussion I was having with them elsewhere about how non-minorities don't have the lived experience of minorities and should therefore not assume they know better than we do what we feel and what we need.
I am very sorry about the pacifism line. I meant the rhetorical "you" but I see how it comes across as aimed at you in particular. I also wasn't wanting to convey that violence necessary dismisses...
I am very sorry about the pacifism line. I meant the rhetorical "you" but I see how it comes across as aimed at you in particular. I also wasn't wanting to convey that violence necessary dismisses non-violence, only that facing violence can force someone to reconsider previously pacifist ideals. My wording did not match my intent at all and I've changed it to reflect that. If you feel it needs further tweaking, let me know. I'm not commited to the wording, only the idea.
I am also very sorry you had to face violence, and I admire you for meeting it non-violently. It hurts to know that homophobia is so consistent and widespread that we both share a common experience despite living in entirely different places.
With regard to the rest of your comment, I really wish I could see what America looks like from outside eyes. Like, I wish I could divorce myself from my experiences for a day and just see what our country is like from the lenses of elsewhere. I get glimpses here and there, often from commenters like you, but it's hard to get them past the invisible mindsets I have that come from living and breathing America for life.
For the record, I very much agree with you regarding our gun culture. I started to become anti-gun following our mass shooting at Columbine High School in 1999, with my stance further solidifying with every subsequent event. In 2011 a close family member was the victim of a mugging in which they were threatened with a gun, which became my personal point of no return. I hoped that we would realize a national one after the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in 2012, in which the primary victims were six and seven years old. The fact that even this shooting wasn't a widespread, non-partisan wake up call for gun law reform shows just how toxic American gun culture is. It's disgusting. Mass shooter drills are now widespread practice in American schools. My students are now too young to know that these aren't normal. They've never known a world without them. This breaks my heart and stirs my anger in ways I cannot express in words.
Yes, but most alternative methods of violence are less fatal than guns. If someone goes on a stabbing spree in a gay nightclub, they're not likely to kill 50 people before they get stopped. You're...
Ban ownership outright, purge the nation of every firearm, and the desperate & the crazy will find another means to be violent.
Yes, but most alternative methods of violence are less fatal than guns. If someone goes on a stabbing spree in a gay nightclub, they're not likely to kill 50 people before they get stopped.
You're right that it's good to look at the motives for violence. However, that is going to have to be a long-term goal. Those programs won't have any short-term effect.
Meanwhile, it's possible to reduce the violence in the short-term by reducing people's access to weapons. If you banned automatic weapons like the good ol' AK-47, that would reduce the fatalities in these mass shootings. Then look at semi-automatics. I mean, how many civilians need to shoot multiple rounds at high speed? When does the need for that arise in anyone's everyday life? If having guns is about self-defence, you probably only need to shoot a couple of rounds at normal speeds to fend off a mugger or rapist. We don't usually face invading armies in our local neighbourhoods. A simple pistol will suffice.
we can literally just look at the latest shooting which proves this: police were on scene in under 30 seconds and neutralized the shooter. he still shot 36 people--more than 1 person per...
Yes, but most alternative methods of violence are less fatal than guns. If someone goes on a stabbing spree in a gay nightclub, they're not likely to kill 50 people before they get stopped.
we can literally just look at the latest shooting which proves this: police were on scene in under 30 seconds and neutralized the shooter. he still shot 36 people--more than 1 person per second--with a gun because he had an extended magazine. guns might only be one part of the problem, but you would only see this kind of shit if everybody had to do it with knives once in a blue moon at the most.
I didn't take your rhetorical "you" regarding pacifism as being aimed at me in particular. I understood it as the generic "you", not the specific "you". However, this particular "you" happens to...
I didn't take your rhetorical "you" regarding pacifism as being aimed at me in particular. I understood it as the generic "you", not the specific "you". However, this particular "you" happens to be a pacifist, so I felt it would be worthwhile to add my personal perspective to that.
As for homophobia, it's one of the things that connects all LGBT people. Whenever someone tries to argue that we should exclude the "T" or the "L" from the community, or that gay men should go their own way (123), I counter by saying we're all in this together. If nothing else, we've banded together for strength in numbers against the same discrimination and bullying that we all face (even if we face it in different ways). I might not have much in common with a lesbian woman or a transgender straight man in terms of lived experiences, but we all share the knowledge of what it's like to be bullied or discriminated against for our sexuality and/or gender identity. That's one reason there is a rainbow community in the first place.
As for guns... the only place I've ever seen a real gun is on the hip of a police officer - and, even then, not frequently. I think I see more guns in television and movies in any given month than I've seen for real in my entire life. I know there are some communities where guns are common, such as farmers and hunters, but the majority of Australians just don't interact with firearms in their normal lives.
While trying to find links about "GGTOW", I stumbled across this blog. I am horrified that they're invoking Isaac Asimov's name, even indirectly. Based on what I know of him, I believe he would be angered to see his name on the same page as this hate speech.
Your problem with the NRA shouldn't be that you "don’t quite fit their mold" yet remain a member, it should be that they're racist monsters and an entrenched part of the far right machine. They're not an otherwise neutral single-issue group whose members just happen to treat you poorly because you're queer. No matter your opinion on guns, you should hate the fucking NRA.
I want oppressed people armed and trained to use their weapons. That's not my problem with this. My problem is that these people are looking at organizations and rallies by the far right and acting like their only issue is that they're not nice to queer people.
This group may be fine, I don't know anything about them from outside of this article. But this sell—that gun ownership should be a point of unity with right wing militias and the like—is serious bullshit.
This week, on "Only in America"...
What the fuck is this insanity? I can practically hear the NRA saying "the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun" throughout the whole article. Giving more people more weapons is not going to lead to less violence!
But, ironically - and specifically to America - that commonality is a desire for deadly weapons, rather than a desire for equality and peace.
I am so glad I live in a country that is not run by gun nuts.
As an addendum to this...
I was browsing the past posts on Tildes tagged "mass shootings", and stumbled across this post I'd previously missed. Here are a couple of relevant paragraphs:
The Pink Pistols are actually increasing, rather than decreasing, their risk of being the victims of shootings.
EDIT: I realize I posted this in the shadows and pain of two more horrific mass shootings, and while I think the perspective I shared here is valuable, I also understand if this is the absolute wrong time to say what I've said. If anyone is troubled by this post, let me know and I can remove it. I'll also use this space as a content warning regarding gun ownership, gun culture, and violence. If those are difficult or sensitive topics for you, especially right now, I do not recommend reading my post.
I think it's important to consider this in light of individual decision-making rather than what we know from statistics. Everything you've pointed out is absolutely true, but at the individual level people likely aren't considering those factors. Instead they're choosing to arm themselves as a way of combatting personal powerlessness and fear. It's not "the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun" so much as it is "having a gun gives me a greater sense of personal security within an actively hostile environment."
I can empathize with this, especially in areas where gun ownership is pervasive. In a homophobic environment where nobody owns guns, the power imbalance is primarily one of ideology. In a homophobic environment where everybody but the queer people own guns, the power imbalance has another layer--a pervasive threat of tangible lethality.
I grew up in an environment like this, and while I never armed myself, most of the peers in my queer community carried some form of non- or less-lethal self-defense implement (usually pepper spray or a knife--often both). I would love to live in a world where these are unnecessary, but the sad reality is that they weren't choosing these because of an abstract threat we feared might come to fruition but because each of us had been direct recipients of it.
Speaking from my own experience: when someone pulls a knife on you and you have nothing to pull yourself, you don't just feel helpless, you feel stupid for not having prepared for something like this in the first place. Coming face to face with violent, irrational hatred can be cause for someone to rethink their committment to pacifism.
I think it's also important to point out how normalized guns are in firearm-friendly parts of America. I understand how absolutely absurd that is from an outside perspective, but I think it's worth considering it from an inside perspective. In the community I grew up in, guns were an everyday thing--like patio furniture or baseball. My parents had guns in the house. When I went to my uncle's house, he would show off the new additions to his gun collection. We would be excited to get to use them! When I went to my friends' houses, I could see their gun cabinets or gun safes. We played with capguns and waterguns when we were kids, then quickly moved on to BBs and pellets. After that it was a .22 rifle. I don't remember the exact age, but I was almost certainly firing actual guns with actual killing power by the time I was 12. Far younger than that if you consider that even a BB gun can be lethal under the right circumstances.
To people that grew up in this kind of environment, buying a gun isn't the kind of showstopper, philosophical consideration many outside those communities want it to be. Instead, it has a sort of thoroughly mundane quality that can be hard to swallow. In the same way that I might go to the store to pick up a slow cooker, I might also get a gun and think little more of it than the prior purchase. On the drive home, I might look forward to what I'd cook for dinner in my new Crock Pot just as I would consider sighting in my new firearm. I am not saying this is right or how things should be (it's not, and it shouldn't be); I am simply saying that this is just how it is for many Americans.
I will also qualify, in the interest of fairness, that the sort of cavalier acceptance of guns doesn't necessarily mean a cavalier attitude towards their potential for harm. As I grew up I was constantly reminded and taught about gun safety. My parents had trigger locks on all the guns in our home, and ammunition was kept in a separate locked box. I was taught never to put my finger on the trigger until I was ready to fire, and I was taught to never, EVER, under any circumstances, point a gun at anything I did not intend to shoot at. Even if the gun wasn't ready to fire. Even if it was fully unloaded. It didn't matter because you always, always, ALWAYS respect its power and potential for harm. This was not a guideline, it was an inviolable rule, and breaking it meant severe and certain punishment.
Furthermore, firing a high-powered rifle, hearing the severity of its report (even with earplugs), and fighting to contain the violent recoil takes the appreciation for its lethality beyond an intellectual one and into a level that's far more primal and visceral. Firing a real gun for the first time is a heart-stopping event that makes you genuinely appreciate its heart-stopping power. This gets further cemented for those that go hunting, as seeing an animal die from a gunshot affirms guns' potential for finality.
Not all gun owners have this appreciation, but many--maybe even most--do. I was on the jury for a case that involved firearms, and the members of the jury who were gun owners were far more harsh in their assessments of the defendant because he had violated many basic precepts of gun safety. To them, this was unconscionable because their view of gun ownership includes a default level of appreciation for their power and lethality. They believe anyone who violates that sanctity is personally (and potentially criminally) negligent. They saw the defendant's lack of concern for safety as immoral and malignant in a way that others in the room were willing to handwave away as a form of benign ignorance.
I say all of this not to defend gun ownership but to contextualize it. America absolutely has a gun problem, and the solution to it is absolutely NOT more guns, but how do you tell that to someone who is in the middle of an arms race in their community? When everybody around them is not only stockpiling and carrying, but everyone around them is also actively hostile to who they are? Furthermore, how do you tell them not to get a gun when, for them, it's seen as a simple tool that they know, appreciate, and have used since childhood?
Of course this isn't necessarily universal, but it's probably a lot more common than you think. It was my story when I first became aware of the Pink Pistols roughly 15 years ago. I'd be lying if I said I simply dismissed their platform out of hand. Instead, their message had a lot of resonance for someone like me who was simultaneously equipped with the prerequisite skills to use a gun and the prerequisite fear to feel like it was necessary.
Could you please not be reasonable and insightful? You're kinda killin' my buzz.
I am generally aware of all this (as much as an outsider can be). But, from an outsider's point of view, the gun culture in the USA is borderline insane. People shoot each other up, and then protect themselves by adding more weapons to the mix. The idea that guns are as normal as kitchen implements is not healthy. You lot have created a culture for yourselves which is toxic - almost literally, in that it's killing people.
As for your statement that pacifism as an ideal is great until you find yourself face to face with irrational, violent hatred... you think I haven't been there? As I was telling a group of LGBT people recently, being bullied or assaulted is something that, sadly, many LGBT people have faced. It's one of our common lived experiences.* Okay, my bullies and attackers weren't armed with guns, but I have faced violence - and responded non-violently. Violence is not the only response to violence. To quote Gandhi, an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
* I'm tempted to @-tag someone to follow up a discussion I was having with them elsewhere about how non-minorities don't have the lived experience of minorities and should therefore not assume they know better than we do what we feel and what we need.
I am very sorry about the pacifism line. I meant the rhetorical "you" but I see how it comes across as aimed at you in particular. I also wasn't wanting to convey that violence necessary dismisses non-violence, only that facing violence can force someone to reconsider previously pacifist ideals. My wording did not match my intent at all and I've changed it to reflect that. If you feel it needs further tweaking, let me know. I'm not commited to the wording, only the idea.
I am also very sorry you had to face violence, and I admire you for meeting it non-violently. It hurts to know that homophobia is so consistent and widespread that we both share a common experience despite living in entirely different places.
With regard to the rest of your comment, I really wish I could see what America looks like from outside eyes. Like, I wish I could divorce myself from my experiences for a day and just see what our country is like from the lenses of elsewhere. I get glimpses here and there, often from commenters like you, but it's hard to get them past the invisible mindsets I have that come from living and breathing America for life.
For the record, I very much agree with you regarding our gun culture. I started to become anti-gun following our mass shooting at Columbine High School in 1999, with my stance further solidifying with every subsequent event. In 2011 a close family member was the victim of a mugging in which they were threatened with a gun, which became my personal point of no return. I hoped that we would realize a national one after the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in 2012, in which the primary victims were six and seven years old. The fact that even this shooting wasn't a widespread, non-partisan wake up call for gun law reform shows just how toxic American gun culture is. It's disgusting. Mass shooter drills are now widespread practice in American schools. My students are now too young to know that these aren't normal. They've never known a world without them. This breaks my heart and stirs my anger in ways I cannot express in words.
Yes, but most alternative methods of violence are less fatal than guns. If someone goes on a stabbing spree in a gay nightclub, they're not likely to kill 50 people before they get stopped.
You're right that it's good to look at the motives for violence. However, that is going to have to be a long-term goal. Those programs won't have any short-term effect.
Meanwhile, it's possible to reduce the violence in the short-term by reducing people's access to weapons. If you banned automatic weapons like the good ol' AK-47, that would reduce the fatalities in these mass shootings. Then look at semi-automatics. I mean, how many civilians need to shoot multiple rounds at high speed? When does the need for that arise in anyone's everyday life? If having guns is about self-defence, you probably only need to shoot a couple of rounds at normal speeds to fend off a mugger or rapist. We don't usually face invading armies in our local neighbourhoods. A simple pistol will suffice.
we can literally just look at the latest shooting which proves this: police were on scene in under 30 seconds and neutralized the shooter. he still shot 36 people--more than 1 person per second--with a gun because he had an extended magazine. guns might only be one part of the problem, but you would only see this kind of shit if everybody had to do it with knives once in a blue moon at the most.
I didn't take your rhetorical "you" regarding pacifism as being aimed at me in particular. I understood it as the generic "you", not the specific "you". However, this particular "you" happens to be a pacifist, so I felt it would be worthwhile to add my personal perspective to that.
As for homophobia, it's one of the things that connects all LGBT people. Whenever someone tries to argue that we should exclude the "T" or the "L" from the community, or that gay men should go their own way (1 2 3), I counter by saying we're all in this together. If nothing else, we've banded together for strength in numbers against the same discrimination and bullying that we all face (even if we face it in different ways). I might not have much in common with a lesbian woman or a transgender straight man in terms of lived experiences, but we all share the knowledge of what it's like to be bullied or discriminated against for our sexuality and/or gender identity. That's one reason there is a rainbow community in the first place.
As for guns... the only place I've ever seen a real gun is on the hip of a police officer - and, even then, not frequently. I think I see more guns in television and movies in any given month than I've seen for real in my entire life. I know there are some communities where guns are common, such as farmers and hunters, but the majority of Australians just don't interact with firearms in their normal lives.
While trying to find links about "GGTOW", I stumbled across this blog. I am horrified that they're invoking Isaac Asimov's name, even indirectly. Based on what I know of him, I believe he would be angered to see his name on the same page as this hate speech.