21 votes

South Dakota House passes bill which makes it a misdemeanor for doctors to provide puberty blockers or other treatments affecting gender expression to children under 16 years old.

10 comments

  1. [10]
    spit-evil-olive-tips
    Link
    This looks to be a new battle line in the culture war as it applies to medicine, alongside TRAP laws that restrict reproductive rights. Red state legislators have figured out that if they can...

    This looks to be a new battle line in the culture war as it applies to medicine, alongside TRAP laws that restrict reproductive rights. Red state legislators have figured out that if they can frame their reactionary bullshit as "for the children" or "for safety" they have enough of a fig leaf that courts will approve it.

    Rep. Fred Deutsch, the bill’s primary sponsor, said the legislation would protect vulnerable children who “are being chemically castrated, sterilized, and surgically mutilated.”

    Fuck you, asshole.

    Quick fact check: 14 and 15 year olds aren't getting bottom surgery, they're getting puberty blockers:

    Are the changes permanent?

    Use of GnRH analogues doesn't cause permanent changes in an adolescent's body. Instead, it pauses puberty, providing time to determine if a child's gender identity is long lasting. It also gives children and their families time to think about or plan for the psychological, medical, developmental, social and legal issues ahead.

    If an adolescent child stops taking GnRH analogues, puberty will resume.

    21 votes
    1. [9]
      AugustusFerdinand
      Link Parent
      So I am completely and utterly against laws that regulate what anyone can or cannot do with their bodies. However, how many of you actually knew who you were at 14 or 15? From my own experience...

      So I am completely and utterly against laws that regulate what anyone can or cannot do with their bodies.

      However, how many of you actually knew who you were at 14 or 15? From my own experience and from raising children, I can't name a single individual that is the same person at 20 that they were at 15.

      2 votes
      1. [7]
        HoolaBoola
        Link Parent
        That is precisely the reason to use puberty blockers: more time. You can delay puberty until you're older and "able" to decide.

        That is precisely the reason to use puberty blockers: more time. You can delay puberty until you're older and "able" to decide.

        19 votes
        1. [6]
          AugustusFerdinand
          Link Parent
          There are long term tradeoffs for allowing such time though. It's not as simple as "this doesn't let your balls drop". Including things like making gender reassignment more difficult if they...

          There are long term tradeoffs for allowing such time though. It's not as simple as "this doesn't let your balls drop". Including things like making gender reassignment more difficult if they decide they are not the gender they were assigned at birth.

          It's obviously not as black and white as it's being made to seem. It's a huge decision with not insubstantial consequences that can have lifelong impacts. I think there's just more to the discussion than "time" and from friends that I've watched struggle with figuring out who they are well into adulthood, it's hugely painful and taxing experience for them.

          4 votes
          1. [2]
            spit-evil-olive-tips
            Link Parent
            The proposed law is what's framing it as black and white. Children under 16 wouldn't be able receive those puberty blockers under any conditions if this law passes. The status quo is that the...

            It's obviously not as black and white as it's being made to seem.

            The proposed law is what's framing it as black and white. Children under 16 wouldn't be able receive those puberty blockers under any conditions if this law passes.

            The status quo is that the parents and child discuss the grey areas with the doctor. And the doctors understand the long-term risks much better than these state legislators do. They can decide what's best for the child on an individual basis, rather than a one-size-fits-all solution that applies to the entire state.

            Doctors also understand that the younger you are, the more potential risks, and they take care to make sure patients provide informed consent. From a Planned Parenthood page, for example:

            In order to receive Gender Affirming Hormone Therapy you need to be over 18 and capable of providing consent. If you are 17, you will need your parent/guardian to accompany you for your appointment. If you are 16 or younger, additional paperwork is required. Please be aware that there are special consents for these services.

            18 votes
            1. AugustusFerdinand
              Link Parent
              Which is why I've already stated that I am completely against this legislation. It's just more assholes telling people what they can or can't do about things the politicians couldn't understand if...

              Which is why I've already stated that I am completely against this legislation. It's just more assholes telling people what they can or can't do about things the politicians couldn't understand if you put it in a pop up book for them.

              2 votes
          2. [3]
            HoolaBoola
            Link Parent
            What do you mean with this? That being on puberty blockers makes transitioning harder? Absolutely. Time is important, but not the only subject that needs to be discussed. It's crucial that the...

            Including things like making gender reassignment more difficult if they decide they are not the gender they were assigned at birth.

            What do you mean with this? That being on puberty blockers makes transitioning harder?

            I think there's just more to the discussion than "time" and from friends that I've watched struggle with figuring out who they are well into adulthood, it's hugely painful and taxing experience for them.

            Absolutely. Time is important, but not the only subject that needs to be discussed. It's crucial that the patient receives support and help in evaluating their identity. The time "saved" with puberty blockers should be used in counseling and helping the patient.

            That said, I'm not quite sure what your point is. Do you mean that people well into their adulthood shouldn't transition, because they might still be struggling with their identity? Of course, if they are struggling, then they shouldn't immediately transition. But I think you're generalizing a bit too much here. Many people can, and do, know how they want the world to see them even before adulthood and forcing them to delay transition or go through puberty as the wrong gender can be stressful and catastrophical.

            10 votes
            1. [2]
              AugustusFerdinand
              Link Parent
              There's peer issues that have been brought up, but I am specifically referencing gender reassignment surgery. - "If children with male genitalia begin using GnRH analogues early in puberty, they...

              What do you mean with this? That being on puberty blockers makes transitioning harder?

              There's peer issues that have been brought up, but I am specifically referencing gender reassignment surgery. - "If children with male genitalia begin using GnRH analogues early in puberty, they might not develop enough penile and scrotal skin for certain gender confirmation genital surgical procedures, such as penile inversion vaginoplasty." - So if they take puberty blockers decide to transition from male to female there's a chance that they can't do so easily because of the lack of development necessary to perform the procedure. A friend of mine underwent penile inversion vaginoplasty as her final step and the sheer change in her outlook on life alone due to the extreme body dysmorphia she had was eye opening to some that didn't understand what she was going through. She'd gotten to the point that she'd shower with the lights off to not see her penis.

              People in adulthood should absolutely transition. I'm not saying the children should go through puberty either. I'm just discussing it in the context that it's not black and white, and it's not just giving them time to figure it out without consequences.

              2 votes
              1. HoolaBoola
                Link Parent
                Ah, fair point. To be honest, I don't know how they (the patient, doctors etc) deal with lack of development.

                Ah, fair point. To be honest, I don't know how they (the patient, doctors etc) deal with lack of development.

      2. kfwyre
        Link Parent
        I knew I was gay at 10 and spent over a decade doing everything in my power to try and change that (to no avail). It very nearly killed me. Gender identity is developed in individuals long before...

        I knew I was gay at 10 and spent over a decade doing everything in my power to try and change that (to no avail). It very nearly killed me.

        Gender identity is developed in individuals long before sexual or romantic feelings, usually by age 3. By age 6 or 7 kids will usually have a better sense of themselves, which is when many trans kids start to express discomfort in their birth sex (though some certainly do so earlier). There is definitely an aspect of uncertainty for some, but for others there is absolute certainty and the child will adamantly and persistently identify themselves as the gender they understand themselves to be, even in the face of significant social or familial cost.

        While there are undoubtedly some people who remain uncertain of their gender identity until they are 15 or 20, there are also people who are certain of it long before.

        12 votes