15 votes

Topic deleted by author

16 comments

  1. [11]
    TavisNamara
    Link
    It's absurd to me that the obvious solution is still being aggressively ignored. Pay people better. Take better care of them. Actually do the right thing. Then suddenly, the labor shortages will...

    It's absurd to me that the obvious solution is still being aggressively ignored. Pay people better. Take better care of them. Actually do the right thing. Then suddenly, the labor shortages will vanish into the wind. Companies that are actually paying and caring for their employees do not have worker shortages right now, because there's no shortage of workers. There's a shortage of wages, of benefits, of responsible management.

    30 votes
    1. AugustusFerdinand
      Link Parent
      Why would they want to do that instead of taking advantage of people too young/uninformed to know better? Especially when they can pressure these easily influenced teens into predatory...

      Why would they want to do that instead of taking advantage of people too young/uninformed to know better? Especially when they can pressure these easily influenced teens into predatory lease-purchase programs to "be their own boss" that pretty much guarantees they'll never get out of debt to the company they allegedly work for?

      20 votes
    2. [9]
      meff
      Link Parent
      Are you sure that's the case here? Truck drivers require CDLs and training. Most adults who are working in another field would have to put in the money or deal with the opportunity cost of leaving...

      Are you sure that's the case here? Truck drivers require CDLs and training. Most adults who are working in another field would have to put in the money or deal with the opportunity cost of leaving their job(s) while getting a CDL and training. The pay increase to account for this opportunity cost would probably not be financially feasible for most trucking companies to handle. Or rather, that's what I can think of without looking into the details of this shortage, of which this article has none of.

      1 vote
      1. [8]
        TavisNamara
        Link Parent
        Unfortunately, I cannot give you the inside information on this, but I'll give a very, very basic summary of what I've heard from those who do know, and hope someone with direct experience happens...

        Unfortunately, I cannot give you the inside information on this, but I'll give a very, very basic summary of what I've heard from those who do know, and hope someone with direct experience happens along at some point.

        First off, the turnover rate in these industries is absolutely monumental. High turnover usually has a meaning, and it's not "nobody's trying to get into the field".

        Second, the pay is edging lower and lower. According to some, taking on a trainee is practically mandatory to break even with a lot of the big companies. But they never actually do anything like, say, make sure you're able to teach someone, or ensure that the people you were 'teaching' learn anything, or have basically any controls on it at all, they're just trying to push people through the system and underpay everyone the whole way through.

        Third, the lease-to-own scam, absurd hours, and misleading the drivers in... Every single way they can to make more money, which is mentioned by the previous commenter here which also includes two links to articles covering details of the issues and some of the stuff I've already mentioned.

        And then there's still, somehow, more. And a lot of it. Remember the guy sentenced to 110 years? You know why drivers were pissed off about that? Because they knew why he had been in that situation. Yes, he was still an idiot and unnecessarily risked lives, but when you're undertrained, underpaid, desperate to not fall even further into debt, and so on and so forth, people make stupid decisions. And those who realize that they're about to make a stupid decision like that often quit instead.

        And therein lies the problem. Plenty of people are trying to get into long haul trucking, but it's just not possible to get anywhere with the corporations stabbing you in the back every half-mile.

        But someone who's a part of the industry could explain it better and in more detail. Either way, there's no shortage of workers. There's a shortage of decent treatment of those workers.

        10 votes
        1. [6]
          vord
          Link Parent
          Literally every retail outlet in a 10 mile radius of me, big and small, has a sign along the lines of "due to staffing shortages" and/or "we're hiring." Those signs were non-existant or very...

          Literally every retail outlet in a 10 mile radius of me, big and small, has a sign along the lines of "due to staffing shortages" and/or "we're hiring." Those signs were non-existant or very minimal apart from major chains before.

          As the old saying kinda goes: If one boyfriend was an asshole, he's probably an asshole. If all your boyfriends were assholes perhaps its time for some self-improvement.

          6 votes
          1. [5]
            meff
            Link Parent
            If these outlets can't hire for long enough and don't increase wages, they'll have to fold anyway. A lot of mismanaged businesses in our area which were barely scraping by paying their employees...

            Literally every retail outlet in a 10 mile radius of me, big and small, has a sign along the lines of "due to staffing shortages" and/or "we're hiring." Those signs were non-existant or very minimal apart from major chains before.

            If these outlets can't hire for long enough and don't increase wages, they'll have to fold anyway. A lot of mismanaged businesses in our area which were barely scraping by paying their employees (and themselves!) minimum wage ended up going under. Most of the big chains around here have started paying service positions more to deal with the labor shortage which is putting wage pressure on smaller businesses making them go under. For mismanaged businesses I'm not holding my breath, but the sad thing is watching small businesses go under because they just don't have the margins to pay better. Inflation is complicated.

            3 votes
            1. [4]
              MimicSquid
              Link Parent
              The thing is that they could have had the margin to pay better... if they were willing to promptly raise their prices to match inflation. It would have pushed the problem another step down the...

              The thing is that they could have had the margin to pay better... if they were willing to promptly raise their prices to match inflation. It would have pushed the problem another step down the line, but one of the things that I learned as a business owner is that I had to raise my rates and my employee's pay by at least inflation every year without fail. Otherwise I was taking a pay cut and forcing one on my employees. If I wasn't able to do that, there were bigger problems with the business.

              1 vote
              1. [2]
                vord
                Link Parent
                The thing about inflation that never seems to be discussed... it takes time to propagate. A $1 raise now doesn't translate to $1 of inflation overnight. A business doesn't need to increase the...

                The thing about inflation that never seems to be discussed... it takes time to propagate.

                A $1 raise now doesn't translate to $1 of inflation overnight. A business doesn't need to increase the price of every good by $1 to cover a $1 raise for all its employees. Some people will save it, keeping it out of the market. People will also spend it in different ways, possibly by consuming more goods of different types (thus not directly inflating their usual goods). It could take years for that $1 of pay to level off completely.

                In the meantime, that employee has $1 more of quality of life until then, as does every other person that benefits from the employee able to spend that $1.

                Hence why smart social programs (like social security) are tied to inflation explicitly.

                3 votes
                1. MimicSquid
                  Link Parent
                  Yeah, it ripples through the economy as each participant raises their prices. Lots of small businesses try to hold out at particular price points for ages, but it does them and their employees no...

                  Yeah, it ripples through the economy as each participant raises their prices. Lots of small businesses try to hold out at particular price points for ages, but it does them and their employees no favors.

                  3 votes
              2. meff
                Link Parent
                Yeah not every business is managed well.

                Yeah not every business is managed well.

                1 vote
        2. meff
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          To preface this I think that lease-to-own programs are predatory garbage and that the government needs to step in and put regulations around these programs. Treatment and wages aren't the same...

          There's a shortage of decent treatment of those workers.

          To preface this I think that lease-to-own programs are predatory garbage and that the government needs to step in and put regulations around these programs.

          Treatment and wages aren't the same thing. The reason workers are treated so terribly is because trucking is an extremely low margin business that makes most of its money through volume. During any economic downturn, truck drivers and rail conductors/engineers are usually the first to get furloughed because these margins are so bad. Trucking companies run most of their employees down to the minimums and look the other way when their employees break those minimums.

          The Federal minimums are absolutely absurd. Here's a few choice excerpts:

          Drivers must take a 30-minute break when they have driven for a period of 8 cumulative hours without at least a 30-minute interruption.

          So you can be forced to drive for 8 hours continuously with only a 30 minute break.

          May not drive beyond the 14th consecutive hour after coming on duty, following 10 consecutive hours off duty. Off-duty time does not extend the 14-hour period.

          So you can be forced to work 14 hours on and 10 hours off. That's barely enough time to sleep and grab dinner. Forget seeing your family. A 14 hour day could potentially mean having only a single 30 minute break all day. These conditions are horrific.


          The solution here, IMO, would be to raise the minimums to be actually decent for truckers. This will effectively increase driver costs for trucking companies, but is the only way I see to actually convince more people to enter the industry. This is entirely within the Federal government's control and other than complaining from the trucking companies themselves, should be something the government can enact with little fanfare (that is if they believe their constituency/beliefs align with this.)

          3 votes
  2. [3]
    ducc
    Link
    Perhaps slightly off-topic, but for some reason, my immediate thought after reading the headline was to imagine high school students driving big rigs. No idea why I didn't immediately realize they...

    Perhaps slightly off-topic, but for some reason, my immediate thought after reading the headline was to imagine high school students driving big rigs. No idea why I didn't immediately realize they meant adult teenagers.

    8 votes
    1. Thrabalen
      Link Parent
      Because one of the ideas floated around was to make it easier for teens as low as 14 to work. We are shameless when it comes to exploiting out youths, and that makes it easy to believe this would...

      Because one of the ideas floated around was to make it easier for teens as low as 14 to work. We are shameless when it comes to exploiting out youths, and that makes it easy to believe this would be the case here.

      13 votes
    2. vord
      Link Parent
      Well, because if you're over the age of 30, everyone <= 23 is seems like they're 14. I would not want 18 yr old me driving a tractor trailer.

      Well, because if you're over the age of 30, everyone <= 23 is seems like they're 14.

      I would not want 18 yr old me driving a tractor trailer.

      7 votes