13 votes

What does it mean to be a ‘Karen’? Karens explain: As the meme has become more prominent online, its meaning has become confused – with real-life Karens caught in the crosshairs

17 comments

  1. [14]
    Icarus
    (edited )
    Link
    I have been seeing "Karen" used increasingly over the past few months. Maybe it is availability heuristic that clouds that interpretation I have of it increasing in popularity. Regardless, my...

    I have been seeing "Karen" used increasingly over the past few months. Maybe it is availability heuristic that clouds that interpretation I have of it increasing in popularity. Regardless, my issue with it is that it is a term used to de-humanize someone by applying a stereotype and ignoring an individual's own agency. I kind of find it ironic it has got a connotation of being a racist when fundamentally, racism is wrong because of its negative stereotyping of vast swaths of people.

    I wish people would take some time to think about these things in more depth. Its one thing to say you are against racists but it means nothing when that same root of hate and behavior is applied towards others.

    Just let everyone be themselves and judge them on their own individual actions ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    15 votes
    1. [11]
      determinism
      Link Parent
      I don't like the popularity of this trend but my recollection is that it was a term developed to describe a person who engages in a certain type of anti-social behavior. The term itself has...

      I don't like the popularity of this trend but my recollection is that it was a term developed to describe a person who engages in a certain type of anti-social behavior. The term itself has gendered and racial stereotypes baked in and makes itself available for prejudice.

      I always wondered about the origins of the following "archetypical" personalities that we're all familiar with:

      Peeping Tom
      Smart Aleck
      Chatty Cathy
      etc

      https://www.dailywritingtips.com/20-archetypes-for-people-based-on-names/

      Most of these are relatively innocuous now, I wonder how many of them started out as terms like "Karen". Maybe what is needed is some catchy alliteration to dispel the pejorative.

      12 votes
      1. [6]
        Deimos
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        As someone named Chad I can definitely confirm that Karen is hardly the first name to be used on its own to represent a stereotype like this.

        As someone named Chad I can definitely confirm that Karen is hardly the first name to be used on its own to represent a stereotype like this.

        36 votes
        1. [3]
          Autoxidation
          Link Parent
          I had almost forgotten about this...
          • Exemplary
          21 votes
          1. Grzmot
            Link Parent
            Fucking amazing. Sometimes I wish this site would lighten up a little.

            Fucking amazing. Sometimes I wish this site would lighten up a little.

            9 votes
          2. goodbetterbestbested
            Link Parent
            That's incredible, thanks for sharing. I always love seeing a wordy meme about a hyper-specific subculture.

            That's incredible, thanks for sharing. I always love seeing a wordy meme about a hyper-specific subculture.

            4 votes
        2. mrbig
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          In 1995 the Brazilian Health Ministry ran a nacional campaign to persuade people to use condoms. In the advertisements, both on magazines and TV, our “mad men” thought that it would be a good idea...

          In 1995 the Brazilian Health Ministry ran a nacional campaign to persuade people to use condoms. In the advertisements, both on magazines and TV, our “mad men” thought that it would be a good idea to refer to the male genitalia with the proper name “Bráulio”, a masculine name in our country. Not super common but not rare either.

          In 2002 a man named Bráulio sued the government for moral damages. His claim was unanimously denied at the first instance.

          I was a teenager in 1995, and the class bully happened to be called Bráulio. I did not feel bad for him.

          One of the ads (NSFW I guess?): https://youtu.be/CikN44tnaAw

          7 votes
        3. Fal
          Link Parent
          How much does that kind of thing get brought up outside of the internet? I don't know anyone with names that have a stereotype attached to them, so my experience with them is solely online. Is it...

          How much does that kind of thing get brought up outside of the internet? I don't know anyone with names that have a stereotype attached to them, so my experience with them is solely online. Is it common for people to use those stereotypes when they first interact with you?

          2 votes
      2. [2]
        Autoxidation
        Link Parent
        Scumbag Stacy and scumbag Steve are other modern examples.

        Scumbag Stacy and scumbag Steve are other modern examples.

        4 votes
        1. PetitPrince
          Link Parent
          I'm the French Web of the early naughties, "Kevin" was used for annoying teenager. It also has its roots in American TV and more used by the working class; its very much an English name that...

          I'm the French Web of the early naughties, "Kevin" was used for annoying teenager. It also has its roots in American TV and more used by the working class; its very much an English name that sticks out. It has been out of fashion for some years now.

          5 votes
      3. [2]
        skybrian
        Link Parent
        I think those are different because nobody is named "Smart Aleck".

        I think those are different because nobody is named "Smart Aleck".

        1 vote
        1. Crespyl
          Link Parent
          It's less common than Tom or Cathy, sure, but it's a real name (at least according to dictionary.com).

          It's less common than Tom or Cathy, sure, but it's a real name (at least according to dictionary.com).

          4 votes
    2. [2]
      hoytschermerhorn
      Link Parent
      The fact that you’re equating an Internet meme with the systemic denigration of entire populations shows that you both have never experienced racism, nor understand what the word really means.

      The fact that you’re equating an Internet meme with the systemic denigration of entire populations shows that you both have never experienced racism, nor understand what the word really means.

      5 votes
      1. Icarus
        Link Parent
        Then tell me what racism is. And for background, I have graduate level training on topics like diversity/inclusion, adverse impact, implicit bias, and any other systemic racism in the workplace....

        Then tell me what racism is. And for background, I have graduate level training on topics like diversity/inclusion, adverse impact, implicit bias, and any other systemic racism in the workplace. So please enlighten me instead of making statements that I interpret as meaning to belittle me. Because part of my work is developing and implementing assessments that aren't biased and I truly want to know.

        Or maybe you misinterpreted me. My point is that this is not solely an internet meme. It is an insult. We can parade around and pretend like the ways that we insult others are just meant for the "lols", but in reality, hate is hate. Creating and applying stereotypes to others is mentally lazy and disingenuous. If you can't judge someone by their individual merits and are blinded by abstract caricatures, then you aren't so righteous in my eyes. The seeds of racism are watered and nourished by the same thing that the seeds of misogyny, ableism, ageism, sexism, or any hate towards a perceived social group. When your assumptions about others are clouded by the misdeeds of others, that is not fair nor right. When your assumptions are meant as a joke at the expense of another person, that is not fair nor right. Everyone should be treated with dignity and respect unless they have personally done something to lose it.

        You may not agree with me, and that's fine. But I hope that I gave you something to think about. I come from the standing that the vast majority of people have the aptitude to change and evolve. I don't believe in labeling someone and basing every interaction I have with them on that particular label. It closes the heart and doesn't allow for forgiveness.

        9 votes
  2. [2]
    rogue_cricket
    Link
    I'm sure for many people it absolutely applies. But I've also seen perfectly reasonable women get dismissed as crazy, naggy, bossy, bitchy, shrill, etc. for standing up for themselves or for...

    I'm sure for many people it absolutely applies. But I've also seen perfectly reasonable women get dismissed as crazy, naggy, bossy, bitchy, shrill, etc. for standing up for themselves or for asking for fair treatment. So I can't help but be at least a little wary of it escaping its original racist / unreasonable context* and being thrown onto that pile.

    * (to be clear, I mean that it applied mostly to racists, not that saying "Karen" is racist)

    7 votes
    1. kfwyre
      Link Parent
      I agree. I find it hard to separate out Karen posts from just wider misogyny in general. To me the meme has largely come across as just another brick in the wall of the internet hating on women.

      I agree. I find it hard to separate out Karen posts from just wider misogyny in general. To me the meme has largely come across as just another brick in the wall of the internet hating on women.

      7 votes
  3. envy
    (edited )
    Link
    Of course, they put the complaining Karen up top All the cool Karens are at the end. At least it ends on a positive note?

    Of course, they put the complaining Karen up top

    “I spend a lot of time on Twitter, so I find it rather annoying,” says Karen

    All the cool Karens are at the end.

    Karen Sandler, an attorney and software freedom advocate, says at first she was “a little sad” to see her name being applied so negatively – “but it’s just so funny, and also clearly, a little bit true”.

    For the best-selling Christian novelist Karen Kingsbury, the meme came as a little welcome light relief. “Honestly, I hadn’t seen the ‘Karen’ meme until your email,” she replied. “I must say when I looked at it, I smiled and laughed. Out loud. Which is always a fun thing.”

    No, she wasn’t offended, Kingbsury wrote: “I don’t mind the meme. It’s not me.”

    At least it ends on a positive note?

    4 votes