17 votes

When people around you are suddenly forced to confront race - Watching white people. The year’s dark comedy of manners.

5 comments

  1. [4]
    Comment deleted by author
    Link
    1. [2]
      post_below
      Link Parent
      I want it to be as simple as this. It should be as simple as this. As your racist coworker illustrated, though, it's not so simple. That dude wasn't an outlier. Maybe an extreme example, but part...

      I want it to be as simple as this. It should be as simple as this. As your racist coworker illustrated, though, it's not so simple. That dude wasn't an outlier. Maybe an extreme example, but part of a demographic that still has a lot of power.

      But that's not the only reason it's not simple.

      The black people as a species white people can't understand is one of the most backwards gambits in social justice. Similar to "all white people are inherently racist".

      I understand the truths behind those sentiments but come on people, think about how your messaging is going to land before you deliver it. These concepts are guaranteed to fail with the groups we most want to reach. They're going to push potential allies away.

      In a perfect world we'd just remind people to have empathy and that would, essentially, be it.

      In the world we currently occupy both sides are more concerned with eliciting emotion for purposes of distribution and profit. Both sides are drawing lines and creating outsiders as fast as they can.

      By sides I mean progressives and... regressives? And more specifically, writers and public personalities in both groups. All of which have something personal to gain from their participation. If it's not money, it's social position, or the rush of self righteousness.

      And so, very few of the people in media and online whose words we share and use as a way into conversations about race are truly trying to solve the problems in a practical way (not a reference to the OP piece).

      That's at least part of the answer to your question... It's a minefield because there are strong economic and ego motivations for it to be a minefield.

      Of course it's also a minefield because there are far too many legitimate racists in the US. The tension is real. I just wish we could remove the guilt from the conversation. It's an unreliable motivator at best, and often it has the opposite effect to what's intended.

      But that's all human. Humans are self serving and short sighted most of the time. And so well practiced at seeming otherwise. Given that, it's probably good enough that the conversation continues to happen in any form.

      4 votes
      1. nukeman
        Link Parent
        Social justice advocates seem really bad at messaging. A decent amount of them seem to come from academia, and I wonder if that insular culture leads to many of the issues; normal people aren’t...

        Social justice advocates seem really bad at messaging. A decent amount of them seem to come from academia, and I wonder if that insular culture leads to many of the issues; normal people aren’t reading forty page journal articles (or even a long Tildes comment) or discussing terms like white privilege in a “sedate” academic context.

        Ultimately, there are two points to strive for when considering messaging: keep everything down to ten second sound bytes, and perception drives reality.

        7 votes
    2. Kuromantis
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      I think it's interpreting "nothing about us without us" and the fact that racism explicitly affects black people (or, more accurately, everyone that isn't white/them) to be interpreted as...

      But why should anyone need a lesson? None of this was hard.

      I think it's interpreting "nothing about us without us" and the fact that racism explicitly affects black people (or, more accurately, everyone that isn't white/them) to be interpreted as "therefore, black people are the most reliable sources of information for racism". And "read a book" is not common advice.

      Also, sometimes your expectations of what is needed to fix this for good are not the same as someone else's, and you can only guess why unless you go and ask, which goes back to the previous paragraph. As an anecdote, I remember saying in the discord that I felt social issues could be done away with via equalizing legislation, not standing in their way and punishing those who actively do so and the response was basically "I wish that was all".

      Dear fucking lord.

      I'll have to agree on that one. Sure, voting against racism is technically something you do for black people, but it's primarily something you do because you believe, no, know racism is bad, right? That interaction makes more sense in a 'meme' about how "The left has gone too far!" than reality.

      1 vote
  2. [2]
    cfabbro
    (edited )
    Link
    I am trying to make it a point to find, read, and post to Tildes at least one article written from black peoples' perspectives each day, in order to help me better understand their perspectives...

    I am trying to make it a point to find, read, and post to Tildes at least one article written from black peoples' perspectives each day, in order to help me better understand their perspectives and lived experiences, and in the process hopefully help others here do the same.

    This is a lighthearted but somewhat cringe-inducing one for today (yesterday's is here for those curious). Some of the behavior mentioned in these stories made me a bit uncomfortable even by proxy, so I can't even imagine how awkward it would have felt to experience them first hand. It can often be tough to know what to do as someone who wants to be an ally, but it would appear that being on the receiving end of clumsily delivered and/or performative displays of allyship is in many ways even tougher.

    12 votes
    1. culturedleftfoot
      Link Parent
      That's an admirable personal commitment, thank you for sharing it with us.

      That's an admirable personal commitment, thank you for sharing it with us.

      7 votes