34 votes

‘I can’t afford that’: A viral tweet shows why we need Medicare for all

37 comments

  1. [22]
    Pilgrim
    Link
    I feel like this all the time. Spent almost $600 on two packs of epi pens. Spent $1400 on a cast for a 4 year olds arm for a hairline fracture. I go to my free physical each year and that’s it -...

    I feel like this all the time. Spent almost $600 on two packs of epi pens. Spent $1400 on a cast for a 4 year olds arm for a hairline fracture. I go to my free physical each year and that’s it - if I get sick I usually suffer through it. It’s just simply not right.

    19 votes
    1. [4]
      ali
      Link Parent
      As someone from Germany who went to the doc twice in the last week just to get a doctor's not. I feel for you. It's crazy you guys can't just go to the doc. And everyone who is against that is...

      As someone from Germany who went to the doc twice in the last week just to get a doctor's not. I feel for you. It's crazy you guys can't just go to the doc. And everyone who is against that is obviously not thinking about humans but about money.

      14 votes
      1. [3]
        CALICO
        Link Parent
        This is the shit that really chaps my ass. Everything in this society is about squeezing every last penny from any given person. Money money money. For the very-wealthy there's always more to be...

        everyone who is against that is obviously not thinking about humans but about money.

        This is the shit that really chaps my ass. Everything in this society is about squeezing every last penny from any given person. Money money money. For the very-wealthy there's always more to be had. Nothing is ever enough. How many billionaires sit on their pile of gold, earned through the labor of thousands, and contribute little or none of it back to greater society? I'm sure your megayacht is very nice, but those who earned it for you are sick and hungry. At least people like Gates and Musk, for all their faults, are using much of their money to build a future worth dreaming for. I'm so sick of this myth that the wealthy are rich because they're smarter or worked harder than anyone else. That's bullshit. At the end of the day, Mark Zuckerberg is just some asshole who did the right thing at the right time. It's so much more to do with luck, than smarts.
        Everything in this society is built to funnel money up, up ,up where is consolidates among a very elite few and mostly just stays there. It's abhorrent. We can't afford universal health care, they say. Fuck you. It's expensive because you made it expensive. If the cost of a bandage wasn't artificially inflated to hundreds of dollars to squeeze your insurance company for all their worth, if your bill wasn't inflated to pay for what your neighbor couldn't afford to pay, what would the real cost of healthcare actually be? You can't expect me to believe that 140-million taxpayers can't distribute the costs among themselves without bankrupting America. For far too long the wealthy have gotten away without paying their fair share. For far too long we've let international corporations get away without paying proper taxes.
        Tax billionaires at 50% and watch how quickly we can raise the economic floor in America. I think very quickly people would see exactly how much wealth there is to be had.

        /rant

        18 votes
        1. [2]
          ali
          Link Parent
          I agree. Workers of the world, unite!

          I agree.
          Workers of the world, unite!

          6 votes
          1. PsychoPitcher
            Link Parent
            "Us poor folks haven't got a chance. Unless we organize. Which side are you on, which side are you on."

            "Us poor folks haven't got a chance. Unless we organize. Which side are you on, which side are you on."

            5 votes
    2. nil-admirari
      Link Parent
      No, it isn't right by a long shot and I'm sorry for you and everyone caught up in this craven system we call 'health care' in the US. It would be better termed shareholder care.

      No, it isn't right by a long shot and I'm sorry for you and everyone caught up in this craven system we call 'health care' in the US. It would be better termed shareholder care.

      7 votes
    3. [2]
      teaearlgraycold
      Link Parent
      I don't really know that much about this sort of thing, but can you purchase Adrenaclick? I remember reddit making a big deal of it when it released because it's a lot cheaper than epipens.

      I don't really know that much about this sort of thing, but can you purchase Adrenaclick? I remember reddit making a big deal of it when it released because it's a lot cheaper than epipens.

      5 votes
      1. Pilgrim
        Link Parent
        There are cheaper alternatives now thankfully. The $600 was for two generic versions of the epi pen. My insurance refused to cover one cent. Actual epi pens were $700 for each two pack and they...

        There are cheaper alternatives now thankfully. The $600 was for two generic versions of the epi pen. My insurance refused to cover one cent. Actual epi pens were $700 for each two pack and they recommend one two pack per child in case one doesn’t work, so $1400. This was 3-4 years ago during the height of pharma bro and his ilk running up the prices.

        4 votes
    4. [5]
      stromm
      Link Parent
      CVS will sell you a generic brand (their supplier) epipen for $10. No insurance required, just a script from your doctor. My son has insurance, but does this because the same product through his...

      CVS will sell you a generic brand (their supplier) epipen for $10. No insurance required, just a script from your doctor. My son has insurance, but does this because the same product through his insurance would cost him $100 for a two-pack.

      5 votes
      1. [4]
        Pilgrim
        Link Parent
        This is true now but was not at the time when I had to pay so much. We checked. We called the manufacturer. We tried the “discount” cards and GoodRX.

        This is true now but was not at the time when I had to pay so much. We checked. We called the manufacturer. We tried the “discount” cards and GoodRX.

        3 votes
        1. [3]
          stromm
          Link Parent
          Odd, my son has been doing this for six years. Maybe it's regional. We're in Central Ohio.

          Odd, my son has been doing this for six years. Maybe it's regional. We're in Central Ohio.

          2 votes
          1. [2]
            Pilgrim
            Link Parent
            You are misremembering. CVS started the program last year and it’s start was widely reported on: https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/01/cvs-just-announced-a-super-cheap-generic-alternative-to-epipen/

            You are misremembering. CVS started the program last year and it’s start was widely reported on:

            https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/01/cvs-just-announced-a-super-cheap-generic-alternative-to-epipen/

            3 votes
            1. stromm
              Link Parent
              Maybe they started it across the country as a whole, but I know for a fact when my son started getting his for that price locally and how. I'm also allergic to things and started getting epipens...

              Maybe they started it across the country as a whole, but I know for a fact when my son started getting his for that price locally and how.

              I'm also allergic to things and started getting epipens from them about 5 years ago for the same price. I don't anymore, honestly I rarely got them over my life even though I should.

    5. [9]
      luke-jr
      Link Parent
      If you can suffer through it, you probably should. Using medicine for everything can be bad for your general health, since your body won't learn to fight things off. And with everyone going to the...

      If you can suffer through it, you probably should. Using medicine for everything can be bad for your general health, since your body won't learn to fight things off.

      And with everyone going to the doctor for frivolous things, the delays get longer for everything.

      One of the problems with "free" healthcare is that people will abuse it, by going to the doctor for things they shouldn't.

      1 vote
      1. [7]
        nil-admirari
        Link Parent
        This isn't medicine for a cold or flu. This is life-saving as severe allergic reactions to bee stings and other wide varieties allergens in people (and pets!) produce a condition known as...

        This isn't medicine for a cold or flu. This is life-saving as severe allergic reactions to bee stings and other wide varieties allergens in people (and pets!) produce a condition known as anaphylactic shock which causes sudden death. Without injectables that can be delivered immediately after exposure, the respiratory system swells (not the only problem but a primary one) which causes complete obstruction of the airway and suffocation. Death is swift and its also ugly and tortuous. OK?

        7 votes
        1. [5]
          luke-jr
          Link Parent
          If it's life-threatening, then suffering through it isn't an option. Apples and oranges.

          If it's life-threatening, then suffering through it isn't an option. Apples and oranges.

          1 vote
          1. [4]
            Pilgrim
            Link Parent
            Sounds much better than the current situation where people are afraid to go to the doctor because they have no idea what the cost will be. Regarding your point about wait times and abuse of a...

            One of the problems with "free" healthcare is that people will abuse it, by going to the doctor for things they shouldn't.

            Sounds much better than the current situation where people are afraid to go to the doctor because they have no idea what the cost will be.

            Regarding your point about wait times and abuse of a "free" resource, I've spoken to loads of people who live in countries with universal healthcare. Not one has said they'd prefer the system that the U.S. has, which is about enriching middlemen and about as far from free market as you can get.

            7 votes
            1. [3]
              luke-jr
              Link Parent
              Nobody is defending the current US system.

              Nobody is defending the current US system.

              1 vote
              1. [2]
                Pilgrim
                Link Parent
                Are you sure? Because it sure sounded like you were trying to poke holes in the only alternative or did I misunderstand?

                Are you sure? Because it sure sounded like you were trying to poke holes in the only alternative or did I misunderstand?

                5 votes
                1. luke-jr
                  Link Parent
                  There are many alternatives.

                  There are many alternatives.

                  2 votes
      2. Emerald_Knight
        Link Parent
        The thing about health and the human body is that seemingly innocuous things can actually be symptomatic of life-threatening conditions. You shouldn't have to make that judgment call yourself and...

        The thing about health and the human body is that seemingly innocuous things can actually be symptomatic of life-threatening conditions. You shouldn't have to make that judgment call yourself and should really defer to an expert's assessment.

        5 votes
  2. Kiloku
    Link
    I live in Brazil. It's considered a developing country, it's undergoing a political and economical crisis, the country itself isn't very rich (65th in GDP per Capita, vs. the USA's 7th). And...

    I live in Brazil. It's considered a developing country, it's undergoing a political and economical crisis, the country itself isn't very rich (65th in GDP per Capita, vs. the USA's 7th).

    And still, we have public healthcare that would deal with the situation shown in this article. She would be put inside an ambulance, taken to the nearest public ER and receive the treatment she needs. Without paying a cent.

    People often talk about the delays and (supposed) endless queues of people waiting for treatment in the public ERs here. This is an idea mostly pushed by our neoliberal right wing media, where they cherry pick the worst days of the worst public ERs and make them out to be the norm.
    Usually, the public ERs aren't lightning fast, but triage prioritizes (as in any other ER) well enough, and even people with mild problems get their treatment, when otherwise, somewhere such as the US, they would just stay at home suffering from whatever they have because they can't pay thousands of dollars to fill the pockets of the private healthcare industry.

    14 votes
  3. Emerald_Knight
    Link
    I live in a mid-sized city making roughly $24/hour. After taxes, health care premiums (for one of the cheapest plans I qualify for, so my deductible is ridiculous), and student loan payments, that...

    I live in a mid-sized city making roughly $24/hour. After taxes, health care premiums (for one of the cheapest plans I qualify for, so my deductible is ridiculous), and student loan payments, that leaves me with an effective $13.50/hour to work with. This income has to be used to cover expenses for myself, my girlfriend (disabled, but can't get a solid diagnosis so no help from the state), and a small dog. On top of that, the cost of living here is above the national average.

    I don't get to see a doctor. Barring expensive tests, there's still a co-pay to consider. If I get into an accident of some kind, even if I can negotiate with the hospital to reduce my medical debt and handle the debt in payments, I will quickly run out of money. I barely make enough as it is to break even after my monthly expenses. I don't eat out or have any expenses that I can realistically cut down on, so tightening the proverbial belt isn't really an option. The day I have an accident is the day I fail to be a self-sufficient adult. And yet, I'm still better off than just about everyone else I know.

    The most horrifying part about that tweet is that it's only a more extreme version of the choice I--and most of the rest of the working class--face whenever I really should see a doctor, but elect not to because of the cost. It's horrifying precisely because it's far too relatable to far too many people.

    This isn't a sustainable way of life. When there are demonstrably better, cheaper, and more effective solutions available that are proven to work, it's morally, ethically, and intellectually wrong to continue with the system we have in place.

    12 votes
  4. nil-admirari
    Link
    Please note, the website linked here advocating Medicare For All is not associated with a political organization but is one of physicians advocating for single payer since the mid 1980s when HMOs...

    Please note, the website linked here advocating Medicare For All is not associated with a political organization but is one of physicians advocating for single payer since the mid 1980s when HMOs were introduced.

    11 votes
  5. patience_limited
    Link
    I'm not a clinician, but I've become acquainted with a hundreds of them in various specialties, through work. The vast majority would rather not be spending 40 - 50% of their time and money...

    I'm not a clinician, but I've become acquainted with a hundreds of them in various specialties, through work. The vast majority would rather not be spending 40 - 50% of their time and money (record-keeping, administrative staff for billing and coding, IT systems capable of handling thousands of insurers, etc.) to deal with the snarled mess of American healthcare. As a general rule, they would rather not let payment dictate the availability of care. They would rather not perform tests and procedures for purposes of legal defense; they would rather practice solely on the basis of the best current evidence and knowledge.

    Once you get past the 40 - 50% overhead on costs for caregivers, there are the enormously inflated prices for hospital beds, drugs and administrative overhead for the insurance itself.

    And yet, the hospital, pharmaceutical and insurance lobbies are guiding policy to maximize their revenues, rather than facilitate policies that guarantee the best possible healthcare for the maximum number of people. Even "Obamacare" was a terrible compromise that let the most influential players continue to receive their existing profits - more people covered, but even more ways to extract money from existing systems for sophisticated companies.

    This has resulted in consolidation and monopolisation in existing healthcare markets, closure of unprofitable but necessary rural hospitals, and a host of other actual declines in accessibility of care, however "affordable" it may be.

    I've personally encountered families over a million dollars in debt for newborns with health problems, doctors who've watched mothers die because prenatal care was both inaccessible and unaffordable, and dealt with health problems for which I couldn't afford medication.

    I can rant about this at great depth and length, but that's the capsule version.

    6 votes
  6. [7]
    luke-jr
    Link
    Why don't people realise that hospitals have to treat you in cases like this, and there's no real consequences if you just don't pay them? I'm not saying it's a good solution, but there's really...

    Why don't people realise that hospitals have to treat you in cases like this, and there's no real consequences if you just don't pay them?

    I'm not saying it's a good solution, but there's really no reason to jeopardize your life for financial reasons in the USA...

    2 votes
    1. [6]
      nil-admirari
      Link Parent
      There are consequences. If you do not pay the bill for an ambulance or for treatment at a facility, you are turned over to collectors. The number one reason for personal bankruptcy in the US are...

      There are consequences. If you do not pay the bill for an ambulance or for treatment at a facility, you are turned over to collectors. The number one reason for personal bankruptcy in the US are medical bills and a significant portion of those had health insurance...inadequate health insurance. Understand these bills are not discharged in bankruptcy, just settled with payment terms over time; but, your credit history is then toast.

      People do jeopardize their health every day in the US and its getting worse leading to more acutely ill people to treat in hospitals requiring more expensive, longer care and worse.

      9 votes
      1. [5]
        luke-jr
        Link Parent
        You can ignore collectors too (and often, they can't even legally go after you). There may be "consequences" of inconvenience, but nothing compared to possibly losing your life.

        You can ignore collectors too (and often, they can't even legally go after you).

        There may be "consequences" of inconvenience, but nothing compared to possibly losing your life.

        1 vote
        1. [4]
          Pilgrim
          Link Parent
          You are grossly misinformed. They can and will go after you, to the point of suing you and garnishing your wages. https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/who-can-garnish-my-wages.html

          You are grossly misinformed. They can and will go after you, to the point of suing you and garnishing your wages.

          https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/who-can-garnish-my-wages.html

          7 votes
          1. [3]
            Flashynuff
            Link Parent
            not to mention, if your credit score is garbage because of outstanding debt, good luck finding someone who will rent to you or give you a loan

            not to mention, if your credit score is garbage because of outstanding debt, good luck finding someone who will rent to you or give you a loan

            4 votes
            1. [2]
              Pilgrim
              Link Parent
              Or a job...

              Or a job...

              1 vote
              1. Flashynuff
                Link Parent
                protip: they can't garnish your wages if you don't have any

                protip: they can't garnish your wages if you don't have any

                1 vote
  7. demifiend
    Link
    I remember when Republicans first started pushing anti-ACA propaganda. They used to talk about "socialist death panels" denying care to people who couldn't justify their continued existence. You...

    I remember when Republicans first started pushing anti-ACA propaganda. They used to talk about "socialist death panels" denying care to people who couldn't justify their continued existence.

    You know what the Republicans wouldn't admit? We already have capitalist death panels doing the exact same thing, and we're paying them to tell us we don't deserve care.

    2 votes
  8. [2]
    stromm
    Link
    This article uses a bad example.. "A woman’s leg got stuck in the gap between the train and the platform.". If that were the case, she should go get medical care and tell the providers they need...

    This article uses a bad example.. "A woman’s leg got stuck in the gap between the train and the platform.".

    If that were the case, she should go get medical care and tell the providers they need to bill the mass transit authority, who will pay for the injuries. Regardless of signs saying otherwise, if you're hurt on their or city property (which the stations are), and you weren't breaking the law, they are legally responsible for injuries you may incur.

    Also, home/renters insurance would apply next. That covers accidents at your home or a property not yours.

    Medical insurance is tertiary for accidents causing bodily harm.

    Lastly, Medicare would not cover this person getting hurt at like this. They would reject the claim and inform the member to file against the property insurance. Both my wife and daughter are medically disabled, so I know this for a fact.

    What people want is a fantasy, and they think it's medicare but they don't bother to understand what medicare is.

    1 vote
    1. Gaywallet
      Link Parent
      "Medicare for all" is just another way to say single payer healthcare system. It's a misnomer, as Medicare how it exists is not how a single payer system would work, but people often don't know...

      "Medicare for all" is just another way to say single payer healthcare system. It's a misnomer, as Medicare how it exists is not how a single payer system would work, but people often don't know what "single payer" means, but do know what Medicare is.

      That being said, you're right about who is liable. However, this lady clearly doesn't understand this. Which is not surprising, as most people aren't educated in liability law or have any experience with this kind of issue.

      If you look at countries that do have single payer systems, this person would be treated and there would be no cost. The governmental organization that dealt with treating this injury might sue the transit authority on her behalf (or a local DA might sue because they are in breach of safety standards) or reach some sort of settlement for them to pay, but that would depend on local law and how they treat this sort of issue.

      1 vote