I was skeptical reading this, and still don't really think it's an issue, but it was interesting to read. In particular, I found the following noteworthy:
I was skeptical reading this, and still don't really think it's an issue, but it was interesting to read. In particular, I found the following noteworthy:
What about your iPhone, that all-essential life device? Surely you own that? Well, sort of. When Apple Inc. decides to change the operating software, sooner or later you have to go along with what they have selected. Gmail is due to change its overall look and functionality, maybe for the better, but again eventually this choice will not be yours either: It’s Google’s. The very economics of software encourage standardization, and changes over time, so de facto you rent much of what you use rather than owning it. I typed the draft of this column using Microsoft Word, and sooner or later my contract to use it will expire and I will have to renew.
Imagine the “internet of things” penetrating our homes more and more, through services like Amazon’s Alexa. We’ll have ovens and thermostats that you set with your voice, and a toilet and bathroom that periodically give you the equivalent of a medical check-up. Yes, you will still own the title to your physical house, but most of the value in that home you will in essence rent from outside companies or, in the case of municipal utilities, the government.
This is one reason why I insist on buying secondhand computers and installing some kind of Unix (currently OpenBSD) on them instead of making do with whatever version of Windows the refurbisher...
This is one reason why I insist on buying secondhand computers and installing some kind of Unix (currently OpenBSD) on them instead of making do with whatever version of Windows the refurbisher provides. It's my computer, and I expect it to work for me, not for Microsoft.
And one of these days I'll work up the nerve to root my phone and install a custom OS. Either that, or upgrade to a more trustworthy device.
What do you think is a good very lightweight distro for older computers? I was rocking Bodhi for awhile, but I could never get it to run easily, there were always tweaks. I moved on to Lubuntu and...
What do you think is a good very lightweight distro for older computers?
I was rocking Bodhi for awhile, but I could never get it to run easily, there were always tweaks.
I moved on to Lubuntu and I have really liked it, I just upgraded to 18.04 and it seems more "sticky" or slow. At least it is super stable, but the Lubuntu team has recently said they will stop considering older hardware and move in another direction.
It really depends on the computer. If you told me you had a T-series Lenovo Thinkpad, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend OpenBSD. NetBSD might also be a good fit. It mainly comes down to what sort...
What do you think is a good very lightweight distro for older computers?
It really depends on the computer. If you told me you had a T-series Lenovo Thinkpad, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend OpenBSD. NetBSD might also be a good fit. It mainly comes down to what sort of wifi hardware you've got, and what kind of graphics hardware. If you've got Intel wifi and graphics, OpenBSD should be fine.
I've got it running on a T430s with an i5 CPU and 4GB of RAM. I use the included cwm window manager, and the only graphical apps I use on a regular or semi-regular basis are
rxvt-unicode
Firefox
LibreOffice
GIMP
Atril (a PDF viewer)
Everything else runs in the terminal, so 4GB is plenty for me.
But if you really want Linux and favor Ubuntu derivatives, what about Xubuntu or Ubuntu MATE? Manjaro might also be suitable.
PS: I've donated to Bodhi Linux because I like the idea of a lightweight desktop distro based on Enlightenment, but TBH that particular window mangler peaked with E16. E17 and subsequent versions always felt too janky.
This was precisely why they forked it into Moksha, but I just couldn't get it to be stable for me. Most of the other people usually had fewer problems. I have an older HP with a Pentium duo and...
E17 and subsequent versions always felt too janky.
This was precisely why they forked it into Moksha, but I just couldn't get it to be stable for me. Most of the other people usually had fewer problems.
I have an older HP with a Pentium duo and only 2 gb of ram. I probably shouldn't complain about speed and might move to Xubuntu. I have entertained the idea of puppy linux as well. I might look into one of the BSD distros.
With only 2GB of RAM, it sounds like you're still using 32bit i386 architecture instead of amd64. Many Linux distributions don't support i386 any longer, or are planning to drop support soon, but...
With only 2GB of RAM, it sounds like you're still using 32bit i386 architecture instead of amd64. Many Linux distributions don't support i386 any longer, or are planning to drop support soon, but Xubuntu should be suitable. Here's a link to an ISO image for 32bit machines.
If you decide to try BSD, I suggest you check out NetBSD's i386 port. OpenBSD also supports i386.
Arch is good on older computers. But setup is a little involved, if you're looking for an easier install I'd give Puppy Linux a shot. Aside from that, for older hardware I'd mostly recommend...
Arch is good on older computers. But setup is a little involved, if you're looking for an easier install I'd give Puppy Linux a shot. Aside from that, for older hardware I'd mostly recommend looking into non-Ubuntu derivative distros, stuff like ArchBang or Linux Mint Debian Edition. Or just Debian.
I don't mind answering here. It might help others as long as the admin doesn't object. You just did. :) And Void uses runit, which explains your concern about BSD's init... As I mentioned, I use...
Diverging from the topic of this post, so I can shoot a PM instead if you'd like.
I don't mind answering here. It might help others as long as the admin doesn't object.
Could I ask about your experience running a BSD?
You just did. :)
I've been considering switching from my current Void Linux install.
And Void uses runit, which explains your concern about BSD's init...
Your experience with BSD's init system specifically I'd be interested in, IIRC enabled services are put in a conf file(?)
As I mentioned, I use OpenBSD on a laptop and on a desktop PC. My use case is pretty simple, so I don't mess around too much with init scripts or do anything complicated. I just enable enable the daemons I need with the flags I want. The only problem I ever had with OpenBSD is that I accepted the suggested values for partition sizes, and they allocated too much space for /home and not enough for system partitions, but that's my own damn fault.
Here's how it works, though. The last stage of the OpenBSD boot process is the init(8) process. Once the system is ready for multi-user mode, init invokes rc(8), which starts up various daemons. Any daemons the admin wants run (or disabled) are defined in /etc/rc.conf.local. The syntax is pretty simple, and is explained in the linked manual page.
However, if you're used to runit and you really want to use it on OpenBSD, you can install the port. The runit documentation has instructions for replacing standard BSD init(8) on OpenBSD 2.9, but I can't guarantee they'll still be valid for 6.3 or the upcoming 6.4 release.
I figured that since runit isn't commonly used, you were used to it from Void, and you specifically mentioned init processes, you might have been concerned about transitioning from runit to BSD...
Curious what you mean?
I figured that since runit isn't commonly used, you were used to it from Void, and you specifically mentioned init processes, you might have been concerned about transitioning from runit to BSD init.
BTW your link about rc.conf.local doesn't actually show as a link because you've inlined it as code.
It looked OK on desktop. Sorry about that.
Doesn't seem BSDs init is too bad, I can see the appeal to having rc.conf.local.
FreeBSD and NetBSD shouldn't be too different, but you should ask around and find somebody more experienced with those variants. For my part, I like how with OpenBSD you don't have to do much setup because the defaults are pretty reasonable.
No worries. OpenBSD has rcctl(8) for live enabling and disabling services on running systems. Here's the manual page.
Oh, yes that makes sense. Sorry, late night brain. Thought you meant there was something more to it I wasn't understanding.
No worries.
If BSD has similarly simple (even if different) ways of accomplishing the same, I won't have much of an issue. But from limited experience and campfire rumours, I had built up an image of people needing to edit a conf file to live disable a service for example. Not the case.
OpenBSD has rcctl(8) for live enabling and disabling services on running systems. Here's the manual page.
I often get into arguments with my friends about doing stuff like this, or favoring FOSS over proprietary software, because there is no immediate benefit, its more of a systematic benefit. We need...
I often get into arguments with my friends about doing stuff like this, or favoring FOSS over proprietary software, because there is no immediate benefit, its more of a systematic benefit. We need people that work on rooting phones and open operating systems so the alternative is there if all goes to shit, but it's not "bad" enough to make a large number of people go from proprietary to open software.
That's kinda why I stopped too. Kinda felt a bit pointless on a personal level. I do understand the systematic level it matters, but it's just harder to care...
That's kinda why I stopped too. Kinda felt a bit pointless on a personal level. I do understand the systematic level it matters, but it's just harder to care...
I do agree that we need Right to Repair, as well as more consumer protection and by extension perhaps a new definition on digital ownership. The John Deere issue is a very good example. I have to...
I do agree that we need Right to Repair, as well as more consumer protection and by extension perhaps a new definition on digital ownership.
The John Deere issue is a very good example. I have to admit, I didn't think beyond personal/individual more or less entertainment products. Which interesting enough, piracy can be protection for.
This is what has me worried about Steam. I posted a topic what would happen if they go dark for no reason. Sure we can hopefully believe that they would make everything available steam drm free. I...
This is what has me worried about Steam. I posted a topic what would happen if they go dark for no reason. Sure we can hopefully believe that they would make everything available steam drm free. I don't want to have to go lurking on torrent sites because I don't "really" own the game.
The first thing that comes to my mind when I see a situation like this, is that we need more open infrastructure to replace these monolithic services. What made the internet so amazing in the...
The first thing that comes to my mind when I see a situation like this, is that we need more open infrastructure to replace these monolithic services. What made the internet so amazing in the beginning was the easy and open technology.
For example instant messaging. We'd need a format like E-Mail for IM, that would be so much easier, no more network-lock-in effects. Or a common streaming ifrastructure and I just pay for "channels" and then there is a netflix channel, amazon video channel etc.
I think there's a gradient there, instead of "own everything I use" or "own nothing only lease / everything as a service". For example, I think car sharing makes a lot of sense, not everybody...
I think there's a gradient there, instead of "own everything I use" or "own nothing only lease / everything as a service".
For example, I think car sharing makes a lot of sense, not everybody needs to own a car and essentially I don't want a car, I want to get from A to B; so a mobility service instead of my own device for that makes sense.
On the other hand something so personal as my phone or my email, I'd like to own that because I rely on it a lot and can't easily change the provider for that. This could be fixed if it would be easier to migrate, but for E-Mail, everybody has my E-Mail address, thats not so easy to change. I can very easily go to a different car sharing company if the one I am using at the moment changes their terms.
Agree with you there's definitely a gradient. There are things I prefer to own, in my case a car is one of them. I live in a city that you really can't go without a car, unless you have a lot of...
Agree with you there's definitely a gradient. There are things I prefer to own, in my case a car is one of them. I live in a city that you really can't go without a car, unless you have a lot of time. It takes me about 20 - 45 mins to get to work by car, if I took transit, it's minimum 1h15m.
Games, movies, songs, and books, I'm good with sharing (library) or streaming. Of course there's a few exceptions that I do prefer to own a hard copy of.
As for email, have you considered hosting your own server? Doesn't change that you'll have to move people over to your address though. I think I know what you're saying though, I have an uncomfortable amount tied to my Google account too.
The part that resonated with me most strongly (emphasis added): I'm deeply suspicious of how much of the modern economy is rent-seeking behavior by companies.
The part that resonated with me most strongly (emphasis added):
Yes, you will still own the title to your physical house, but most of the value in that home you will in essence rent from outside companies or, in the case of municipal utilities, the government.
I'm deeply suspicious of how much of the modern economy is rent-seeking behavior by companies.
Interesting, I had never heard of that term before. I always connect stuff like this to the transformation from products to services, today, everything is offered as a service instead of a...
Interesting, I had never heard of that term before. I always connect stuff like this to the transformation from products to services, today, everything is offered as a service instead of a product, you subscribe to the company and they give you the software and in turn you always get the latest version instead of having to buy a new product every couple of months or years.
There are two central ideas in this article: private property (and why we should be wary of its decline) and software a service (and how it cheapens the idea of ownership.) Author says it may be...
There are two central ideas in this article: private property (and why we should be wary of its decline) and software a service (and how it cheapens the idea of ownership.)
Author says it may be that we are becoming more communal and so the concept of private property must be less important. They also note that private property is something that distinguishes us from serfs. First, maybe private property is inferior to communal ownership. But is that where we're headed?
Author uses the fact that we do not fully control or own the devices that now engulf vast amounts of our time. What if the automobile was not fully private property, but could not operate without being partially controlled by Ford? What if washing machines could be remotely disabled if you attempted to repair them. (Sounds like Tesla, no?) Forgive me if I'm wrong, but this all sounds like the innocuous term "software as a service." The physical device may be yours, but it won't work unless you pay us rent.
Bridging the two ideas together: I don't think we're headed towards a communal concept of ownership; which sounds like a great idea to me. I think we're headed backwards straight into digital feudalism where there are owners and there are serfs who live by their good grace.
I was skeptical reading this, and still don't really think it's an issue, but it was interesting to read. In particular, I found the following noteworthy:
This is one reason why I insist on buying secondhand computers and installing some kind of Unix (currently OpenBSD) on them instead of making do with whatever version of Windows the refurbisher provides. It's my computer, and I expect it to work for me, not for Microsoft.
And one of these days I'll work up the nerve to root my phone and install a custom OS. Either that, or upgrade to a more trustworthy device.
What do you think is a good very lightweight distro for older computers?
I was rocking Bodhi for awhile, but I could never get it to run easily, there were always tweaks.
I moved on to Lubuntu and I have really liked it, I just upgraded to 18.04 and it seems more "sticky" or slow. At least it is super stable, but the Lubuntu team has recently said they will stop considering older hardware and move in another direction.
It really depends on the computer. If you told me you had a T-series Lenovo Thinkpad, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend OpenBSD. NetBSD might also be a good fit. It mainly comes down to what sort of wifi hardware you've got, and what kind of graphics hardware. If you've got Intel wifi and graphics, OpenBSD should be fine.
I've got it running on a T430s with an i5 CPU and 4GB of RAM. I use the included cwm window manager, and the only graphical apps I use on a regular or semi-regular basis are
Everything else runs in the terminal, so 4GB is plenty for me.
But if you really want Linux and favor Ubuntu derivatives, what about Xubuntu or Ubuntu MATE? Manjaro might also be suitable.
PS: I've donated to Bodhi Linux because I like the idea of a lightweight desktop distro based on Enlightenment, but TBH that particular window mangler peaked with E16. E17 and subsequent versions always felt too janky.
This was precisely why they forked it into Moksha, but I just couldn't get it to be stable for me. Most of the other people usually had fewer problems.
I have an older HP with a Pentium duo and only 2 gb of ram. I probably shouldn't complain about speed and might move to Xubuntu. I have entertained the idea of puppy linux as well. I might look into one of the BSD distros.
With only 2GB of RAM, it sounds like you're still using 32bit i386 architecture instead of amd64. Many Linux distributions don't support i386 any longer, or are planning to drop support soon, but Xubuntu should be suitable. Here's a link to an ISO image for 32bit machines.
If you decide to try BSD, I suggest you check out NetBSD's i386 port. OpenBSD also supports i386.
Arch is good on older computers. But setup is a little involved, if you're looking for an easier install I'd give Puppy Linux a shot. Aside from that, for older hardware I'd mostly recommend looking into non-Ubuntu derivative distros, stuff like ArchBang or Linux Mint Debian Edition. Or just Debian.
I don't mind answering here. It might help others as long as the admin doesn't object.
You just did. :)
And Void uses
runit, which explains your concern about BSD's init...As I mentioned, I use OpenBSD on a laptop and on a desktop PC. My use case is pretty simple, so I don't mess around too much with init scripts or do anything complicated. I just enable enable the daemons I need with the flags I want. The only problem I ever had with OpenBSD is that I accepted the suggested values for partition sizes, and they allocated too much space for /home and not enough for system partitions, but that's my own damn fault.
Here's how it works, though. The last stage of the OpenBSD boot process is the
init(8)process. Once the system is ready for multi-user mode,initinvokesrc(8), which starts up various daemons. Any daemons the admin wants run (or disabled) are defined in/etc/rc.conf.local. The syntax is pretty simple, and is explained in the linked manual page.However, if you're used to
runitand you really want to use it on OpenBSD, you can install the port. Therunitdocumentation has instructions for replacing standard BSDinit(8)on OpenBSD 2.9, but I can't guarantee they'll still be valid for 6.3 or the upcoming 6.4 release.Hope this helps.
I figured that since runit isn't commonly used, you were used to it from Void, and you specifically mentioned init processes, you might have been concerned about transitioning from runit to BSD init.
It looked OK on desktop. Sorry about that.
FreeBSD and NetBSD shouldn't be too different, but you should ask around and find somebody more experienced with those variants. For my part, I like how with OpenBSD you don't have to do much setup because the defaults are pretty reasonable.
No worries.
OpenBSD has
rcctl(8)for live enabling and disabling services on running systems. Here's the manual page.You're welcome. This is one of the reasons I stick with OpenBSD; the manual pages are actually useful.
I use to format and root all my electronics, and then just got lazy a couple years back. I really should get back to it...at least for my phone.
I often get into arguments with my friends about doing stuff like this, or favoring FOSS over proprietary software, because there is no immediate benefit, its more of a systematic benefit. We need people that work on rooting phones and open operating systems so the alternative is there if all goes to shit, but it's not "bad" enough to make a large number of people go from proprietary to open software.
That's kinda why I stopped too. Kinda felt a bit pointless on a personal level. I do understand the systematic level it matters, but it's just harder to care...
I do agree that we need Right to Repair, as well as more consumer protection and by extension perhaps a new definition on digital ownership.
The John Deere issue is a very good example. I have to admit, I didn't think beyond personal/individual more or less entertainment products. Which interesting enough, piracy can be protection for.
This is what has me worried about Steam. I posted a topic what would happen if they go dark for no reason. Sure we can hopefully believe that they would make everything available steam drm free. I don't want to have to go lurking on torrent sites because I don't "really" own the game.
This is one of the reasons I don't use Steam. I don't like their terms.
The first thing that comes to my mind when I see a situation like this, is that we need more open infrastructure to replace these monolithic services. What made the internet so amazing in the beginning was the easy and open technology.
For example instant messaging. We'd need a format like E-Mail for IM, that would be so much easier, no more network-lock-in effects. Or a common streaming ifrastructure and I just pay for "channels" and then there is a netflix channel, amazon video channel etc.
I think there's a gradient there, instead of "own everything I use" or "own nothing only lease / everything as a service".
For example, I think car sharing makes a lot of sense, not everybody needs to own a car and essentially I don't want a car, I want to get from A to B; so a mobility service instead of my own device for that makes sense.
On the other hand something so personal as my phone or my email, I'd like to own that because I rely on it a lot and can't easily change the provider for that. This could be fixed if it would be easier to migrate, but for E-Mail, everybody has my E-Mail address, thats not so easy to change. I can very easily go to a different car sharing company if the one I am using at the moment changes their terms.
Agree with you there's definitely a gradient. There are things I prefer to own, in my case a car is one of them. I live in a city that you really can't go without a car, unless you have a lot of time. It takes me about 20 - 45 mins to get to work by car, if I took transit, it's minimum 1h15m.
Games, movies, songs, and books, I'm good with sharing (library) or streaming. Of course there's a few exceptions that I do prefer to own a hard copy of.
As for email, have you considered hosting your own server? Doesn't change that you'll have to move people over to your address though. I think I know what you're saying though, I have an uncomfortable amount tied to my Google account too.
The part that resonated with me most strongly (emphasis added):
I'm deeply suspicious of how much of the modern economy is rent-seeking behavior by companies.
Interesting, I had never heard of that term before. I always connect stuff like this to the transformation from products to services, today, everything is offered as a service instead of a product, you subscribe to the company and they give you the software and in turn you always get the latest version instead of having to buy a new product every couple of months or years.
There are two central ideas in this article: private property (and why we should be wary of its decline) and software a service (and how it cheapens the idea of ownership.)
Author says it may be that we are becoming more communal and so the concept of private property must be less important. They also note that private property is something that distinguishes us from serfs. First, maybe private property is inferior to communal ownership. But is that where we're headed?
Author uses the fact that we do not fully control or own the devices that now engulf vast amounts of our time. What if the automobile was not fully private property, but could not operate without being partially controlled by Ford? What if washing machines could be remotely disabled if you attempted to repair them. (Sounds like Tesla, no?) Forgive me if I'm wrong, but this all sounds like the innocuous term "software as a service." The physical device may be yours, but it won't work unless you pay us rent.
Bridging the two ideas together: I don't think we're headed towards a communal concept of ownership; which sounds like a great idea to me. I think we're headed backwards straight into digital feudalism where there are owners and there are serfs who live by their good grace.