21 votes

Does anyone here share a passion for spiritual development, the occult, metaphysics, or fringe science/academia?

One of my biggest hobbies and passions over the last 10 or 15 years has been essentially all of the above. I'm not the smartest or the most well-read lady out there by any means but I enjoy exploring the more shadowy realms of discourse. There's lots and lots of dross but occasionally a nugget of something magnificent, and over the years it's eroded away my original scientific materialist atheism completely and my thinking now is more animist, panpsychist, deist. I've spent years off and on experimenting with (actual, not stage) magic, and though I was never super committed to the full ceremonial experience like others I've seen, it's become a part of how I think.

So I was wondering if there's any here that don't fit into the typical scientific materialist box in one form or another. And if so, what're you reading or experimenting with right now?

Currently I'm reading through Conversations with God and it's persuaded me to start practicing loving-kindness meditation. I've only been at that a few days but I'm interested to see what impact it has on my daily life. It's definitely true that up until these past few days I've never actively focused on trying to love myself and others, which kind of surprises me when I think about it. But that sort of thing isn't really something I see emphasized in our culture or in my own little circle.

How about you?

25 comments

  1. [3]
    losvedir
    Link
    Maybe this is too boring for you, but I dabble with Catholicism. That is, I'm not sure I believe it, but I enjoy going to church. I find the ritual a good time to reflect. I used to be hardcore...

    Maybe this is too boring for you, but I dabble with Catholicism. That is, I'm not sure I believe it, but I enjoy going to church. I find the ritual a good time to reflect.

    I used to be hardcore atheist/materialist, but have softened on that lately. I keep thinking of the Louis CK bit on Conan about how people take flying in airplanes for granted when really you've achieved the miracle of human flight and you're sitting in a chair in the sky and people should be gripping their armrests and going "Woooooow! Oh my God oh my God oh my God" the whole time. Existence is kind of like that for me. Easy to take for granted but really awe inspiring when you stop and think about it.

    9 votes
    1. alessa
      Link Parent
      I was raised Catholic actually. I have deep issues with a lot of how they do things but the ritual and atmosphere is quite beautiful. And despite my problems with it I'm fascinated with the...

      I was raised Catholic actually. I have deep issues with a lot of how they do things but the ritual and atmosphere is quite beautiful. And despite my problems with it I'm fascinated with the mythology that's risen up around it, especially where Catholicism has interacted with indigenous religions.

      I've heard it said that for centuries the Catholic mass was the single largest and most powerful magical ritual on the planet and I think that's probably a fair description.

      1 vote
    2. uselessabstraction
      Link Parent
      LOL this is me! I'm sitting in the terminal waiting for a 6:00AM red-eye and everyone around me is either staring at their phones miserably, reading a book miserably, or sleeping miserably....

      you're sitting in a chair in the sky and people should be gripping their armrests and going "Woooooow! Oh my God oh my God oh my God" the whole time.

      LOL this is me! I'm sitting in the terminal waiting for a 6:00AM red-eye and everyone around me is either staring at their phones miserably, reading a book miserably, or sleeping miserably. Meanwhile I'm staring out the window with total childlike fascination as they taxi the plane in, hook up the AC, waste, fuel hoses, and load up the snacks and the luggage. We board. I'm staring out the window, watching as the pilot tests the flaps and ailerons before we taxi to the runway.

      Then we take off and I observe the change from the overcast drizzle at the airport, to being lost in the clouds. I hear the landing gear retract into the fuselage. Eventually we climb above the cloud canopy and I see the pristine pinkish-yellow to blue sky which was hiding right behind the dreary clouds the whole time. Even though we're out of the clouds, we still have some climbing to do before we reach cruising altitude, and you can still feel the difference in turbulence as the atmosphere gradually gets thinner and thinner around the plane.

      I mean, I'll admit. I don't fly much. But yeah. Oh the things we take for granted.

  2. AllMight
    Link
    I'm a devout christian. There are a lot of spiritual aspects that many Christians are unaware of or don't believe. But the primary spiritual work Jesus asked us to do was to love God and to love...

    I'm a devout christian. There are a lot of spiritual aspects that many Christians are unaware of or don't believe. But the primary spiritual work Jesus asked us to do was to love God and to love others. It literally says so in the bible. In word it sounds easy but in practice it's very difficult.

    “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?”
    And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.
    This is the great and first commandment.
    And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
    On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”

    There are also spiritual aspects of Prayer, Meditating on God's word, Getting in tune with the will of God and so much more. Christianity is very deep but many people live it out in a shallow self serving way. Which is the opposite of what Jesus taught.

    9 votes
  3. [2]
    Comment deleted by author
    Link
    1. alessa
      Link Parent
      Gordon White is one of the best writers out there for Chaos magic. I got maybe two thirds of the way through Star.Ships before the tides of my interest pulled me elsewhere but it's some incredible...

      Gordon White is one of the best writers out there for Chaos magic. I got maybe two thirds of the way through Star.Ships before the tides of my interest pulled me elsewhere but it's some incredible work he's done. In that vein, have you read Fingerprints of the Gods? Core message of that one is that over 10,000 years ago there existed a global technologically advanced society and we can see remnants of it today. It's very persuasive. I'm not all the way through that one yet either.

      I actually started out my occult journey from Chaos magic and I still think from a pretty similar viewpoint when it comes to magic. I don't know what I'd label my philosophy or if there even is a school of it though.

  4. [2]
    stevenchamp45
    Link
    I had a near death experience and since then have went from hardcore left minded atheist to occultist and pantheist. I've strongly toned down my "spirituality" because i damn near went insane, but...

    I had a near death experience and since then have went from hardcore left minded atheist to occultist and pantheist. I've strongly toned down my "spirituality" because i damn near went insane, but I still like to keep a sense of mystery in the back of my mind. In terms of religion, I used to be an atheist but now I'd say i'm more of a Discordian where I can see a sense of truth in anything.

    4 votes
    1. alessa
      Link Parent
      Oh hey dude! Yeah we always walk that fine line, insanity's always a brisk walk away.

      Oh hey dude! Yeah we always walk that fine line, insanity's always a brisk walk away.

  5. [2]
    s4b3r6
    Link
    I've dabbled in a lot of places. I'm a devout Christian now, which means practicing Love towards others, prayer, meditation, and ceremony are all part of my average day. In the past, I've played...

    I've dabbled in a lot of places.

    I'm a devout Christian now, which means practicing Love towards others, prayer, meditation, and ceremony are all part of my average day.

    In the past, I've played with various magics - Kabbalah, Hindu magics, and then the more western Wiccan traditions. Some of it is ritualistic, some of it revolves around talismen and symbolism.

    I got caught up in the revival of the old Norse gods for a while - worshipping a storm god like Thor is very easy. It's primal, and feeds in to the kind of hormones and desires that are very human.

    These days, I lean heavily towards hyper-rationalism. So my beliefs have switched from being about feeding human desire, empathy and emotion, and towards a search for what is actually Truth, in the philosophical sense. For me, Christianity was the only thing that checked all the boxes for actual evidence, and grounding in reality, and not just one's own sense of reality. (Massive life change, short answer: I experienced long-term psychosis. Now I no longer trust one's own sense of reality about anything.)

    4 votes
    1. alessa
      Link Parent
      Yeah psychosis will do that to a person. I've had experience with it off and on for over a decade, and the last time I just gave in and let it take me. I was like that for months. And though my...

      Yeah psychosis will do that to a person. I've had experience with it off and on for over a decade, and the last time I just gave in and let it take me. I was like that for months. And though my reality was crazy I ended up feeling like it was actually fairly structured, and magic worked much better. All the experiences I had could be explained in terms of a sort of waking shamanic vision state, where my mind and perception were operating more according to the dreamlike logic and rules of the spirit world, like my soul forgot it was bound here somehow. It's definitely left me with a deep core belief that our shared reality is fundamentally more like an exceptionally stable shared dream than it is some kind of objective, concrete thing. It's not "out there," it's within all of us at once. Or something like that.

      I feel like Christianity in popular culture has been severely corrupted and the corruption began very early on, perhaps within a couple centuries of Jesus' death, but I think he was the real deal. Conversations with God examines Christianity through the lens of a universal creator who strips out the manmade misconceptions and control structures of the dogma and in that form I really dig Christianity and think it's a very legit avenue to finding your truth.

      2 votes
  6. [3]
    Comment deleted by author
    Link
    1. alessa
      Link Parent
      I think the basic reason is that I wasn't an atheist by choice - I was an atheist because my best interpretation of what I knew and understood at the time led me to think that there was no God. I...

      I think the basic reason is that I wasn't an atheist by choice - I was an atheist because my best interpretation of what I knew and understood at the time led me to think that there was no God. I have always been strongly motivated to find the highest truth I can and abide by it even if I hate it. So from my tweens up until my early 20s, atheism it was, because I was very firmly grounded in scientific materialism and considered the mainstream scientific worldview to be the final word. Nothing I was exposed to during that time could give me a better explanation.

      My shift back into a spiritual mode started in college. I felt freer there, and in addition to the honors philosophy courses I took, which helped to open up my previously rigid thinking, I developed an interest in black magic - since, somewhat paradoxically, I hated God even though I didn't believe in him. I didn't have any major magical breakthroughs early on, but I followed the rabbit hole and my interests in the occult and in philosophy began to intersect. Things really changed in my early 20s when I discovered such greats as Terence McKenna, Alan Watts, Robert Anton Wilson, Phil Hine. It's a longer list than that but you get the idea. Also, most importantly, such authors as Rupert Sheldrake and Dean Radin, who really were the ones who shattered my concrete faith in scientism. It was open season from then on.

      I spent years experimenting with magic and seeing results (although my clumsy thinking often led to backfires), and considering the idea of spirits and gods, and the whole thing became a lot more real and reasonable to me.

      The real serious no-turning-back evolutionary period in my thinking, which put me firmly in the spirit-first camp and echoed spirituality through every part of my life, was that I spent 2017 bathing in psychedelics and vagabonding across the southwest. I finally understood Terence McKenna's endorsement of travel, then. I saw and felt things that drove home what a mystical, strange reality we live in, truly relied on magic and higher powers to survive. Nearly died so many times that I am certain I am here for a reason.

      Since I came back I've been trying to put it all together and I'm reasonably convinced there is an ultimate higher power that pervades all creation and that we are it expressed in physical form, and my reading of late has been more fascinating than ever.

      So in summary it was a lot of things. I listened to the world and other people and exposed myself to new ideas and in the end I couldn't settle on atheism because experience and research convinced me away from it.

      4 votes
    2. nsz
      Link Parent
      It's pretty fun to read about Discoridanism , though it seems all to cleaver to actually function as a religion, stuck in some kind of irony loop, but I get the sense that's the point. At least...

      It's pretty fun to read about Discoridanism , though it seems all to cleaver to actually function as a religion, stuck in some kind of irony loop, but I get the sense that's the point. At least that's feeling I'm getting from reading that page.

  7. [3]
    TheInvaderZim
    Link
    It's always something I've wanted to explore but haven't. I fundamentally believe that there is more to our world and our existence than our current sciences can explain. There are things that,...

    It's always something I've wanted to explore but haven't. I fundamentally believe that there is more to our world and our existence than our current sciences can explain. There are things that, from the tiniest microscale (quantum physics) to the most enormous macro scale (a society of billions) simply should not happen, and that we can't account for. Good luck, bad luck, miracles, omens, ghosts, and spirituality and consciousness. Stairstep societal progression, the question of extraterrestrial life, economics, time and cyclical history, atomic theory, and even the very nature of our universe being able to house us. Looking closely at virtually any aspect of our world causes it to break down completely. Patterns begin to emerge that can't be properly explained. Each thing I've just listed is something that we as humans have hardly begun to understand, and yet, our definition for each is continually changing.

    Someday soon, once I'm well-established personally and can afford to do so comfortably, I'd like to do a sort of "historical tour" of the world's cultural progression, to see the patterns for myself. I think that in some ways, in their quieter world, it's very possible our ancestors heard answers that we have trained ourselves to grow deaf to.

    3 votes
    1. [2]
      alessa
      Link Parent
      Whenever you do your tour, make sure to check out Fingerprints of the Gods for a great exploration of the (pretty well-supported) notion that there existed a prehistoric worldwide advanced...

      Whenever you do your tour, make sure to check out Fingerprints of the Gods for a great exploration of the (pretty well-supported) notion that there existed a prehistoric worldwide advanced civilization that was demolished by a cataclysm around 12000 years ago, if you haven't already. It's pretty great stuff. It sounds like you're highly aware of the world around and inside you already. I'm excited for you to start that journey!

      1. TheInvaderZim
        Link Parent
        Thanks for the recommendation! Definitely interested in reading it.

        Thanks for the recommendation! Definitely interested in reading it.

        1 vote
  8. Parameter
    Link
    In a way, yes. I'm very resistant to accepting any idea that requires the suspension of my standard of justification. So when ideas like this are presented in a context where I feel that it's out...

    In a way, yes. I'm very resistant to accepting any idea that requires the suspension of my standard of justification. So when ideas like this are presented in a context where I feel that it's out of place, I'm a little hesitant to not be resistant.

    With that said, I love a lot of aspects of the things on your list. All these things are expressions of unique ways people are and think. Engaging people or ideas that present contrary views is a lot more interesting to me than something I've already accepted.

    The issue is the difficulty of consistently suspend belief so it's kind of a love-hate relationship that I mostly keep to myself in real life.

    2 votes
  9. Whom
    Link
    Not quite. However, even though I wouldn't consider a single experience I've had in life "spiritual," I'm super interested in those experiences and I value the thoughts and ideas that are born...

    Not quite. However, even though I wouldn't consider a single experience I've had in life "spiritual," I'm super interested in those experiences and I value the thoughts and ideas that are born from them. So much of the history of human thought in general is centered around spirituality (whether mainstream or not) and I don't like that I've been cut off from it for my whole life.

    I don't think I'll ever believe in a god or spirits or anything, but I'm trying to separate those in my head and open myself up. I also just like the aesthetics!

    1 vote
  10. rickdg
    Link
    I used to, I recommend reading "Witchcraft for Tomorrow" by Doreen Valente and "78 Degrees of Wisdom" by Rachel Pollack. However, the old religions can't realistically speak to me, our modern...

    I used to, I recommend reading "Witchcraft for Tomorrow" by Doreen Valente and "78 Degrees of Wisdom" by Rachel Pollack. However, the old religions can't realistically speak to me, our modern culture benefits from a mix of many ancient civilizations and our daily lives mostly ignore the turn of the seasons or working from dawn to dusk. The symbolism of real magic didn't have to be explained to folks tied to their land, but today we read books to try and piece together the figure of the horned god or the meaning of the cardinal directions. It's a very interesting creative exercise (and essential to understand what Christianity has co-opted), but it doesn't seem to have the same spiritual depth as it once did when I was younger.

  11. [2]
    mrbig
    Link
    I'm a spiritist and have been for many years. It's a kind of spiritualism that also emphasizes free thinking, rationality (weird, right?) and self-development rather than proselytizing or judging...

    I'm a spiritist and have been for many years. It's a kind of spiritualism that also emphasizes free thinking, rationality (weird, right?) and self-development rather than proselytizing or judging others. I'm basically a reincarnationist Christian that doesn't care if you're an atheist. Religion helps me be a better, happier person.

    And, to satisfy OPs desire for fringe/occult etc, I'll just say this: I have been in contact with the dead. Many times, even.

    1. alessa
      Link Parent
      Spiritism looks essentially compatible with my understandings. I couldn't find anything in the wiki synopsis that disagreed with me. Pretty cool. I believe from my researches that there's always...

      Spiritism looks essentially compatible with my understandings. I couldn't find anything in the wiki synopsis that disagreed with me. Pretty cool. I believe from my researches that there's always those out there who have a line on what's really going on here and are here to show us that.

      Totally believe you on contacting the dead. I've not really contacted the dead except I briefly met Euripides one time in a shamanic flight. I've "borrowed" the spirits of living people to talk to them from where they are always, outside of time. As are we all in multiple levels and places and times and incarnations.

      1 vote
  12. [6]
    lmn
    Link
    What has been your most successful experiment with magic?

    I've spent years off and on experimenting with (actual, not stage) magic

    What has been your most successful experiment with magic?

    1. [5]
      alessa
      Link Parent
      I caused a violently abusive ex to submit his will to me and piloted him around like a voodoo zombie for a few weeks to try to keep him from beating me, before I was finally willing to get the...

      I caused a violently abusive ex to submit his will to me and piloted him around like a voodoo zombie for a few weeks to try to keep him from beating me, before I was finally willing to get the hell out (it was a hard decision; I had to leave with nothing but the clothes on my back). It was an unusual and dire situation. 90% of the time it worked every time, and the other 10% when he was himself he was so terrified he wanted to kill me and tried, but he was more afraid of actually killing me than letting me live, I think. I've never seen such abject fear.

      It was the most evil thing I ever did. He killed himself not long after.

      1. [2]
        JackA
        Link Parent
        I don't really know how to say it on Tildes considering that there is usually a pretty polite atmosphere here but I can't say it without it sounding like a personal attack so I want to apologize...

        I don't really know how to say it on Tildes considering that there is usually a pretty polite atmosphere here but I can't say it without it sounding like a personal attack so I want to apologize beforehand.

        I don't believe anything you just said. Obviously neither of us can prove it, and I'm perfectly fine with people having plenty of spiritual beliefs here even though I would consider myself an atheist but that is just too far beyond any reason for me.

        I'm not sure where the ideological balance is between respecting other peoples beliefs and calling out what appears to be blatant lies from my point of view. Again, I'm sorry if this is offensive I just want to generate some sort of discussion on this.

        4 votes
        1. alessa
          Link Parent
          No worries, you managed to be perfectly respectful. We're all operating according to the best understanding of the universe that we have, and it's normal for any two people living in the same...

          No worries, you managed to be perfectly respectful.

          We're all operating according to the best understanding of the universe that we have, and it's normal for any two people living in the same universe to come to completely different conclusions about what it is and what it can do. Part of the fun of being here.

          I'm not going to try to convince you away from your worldview. You have good reasons for having it and if you ever want to change it or explore anything different you have all the same tools that everyone else does. I will say though, that I didn't lie. I can understand why you'd think that. But the account I gave is my honest interpretation of an experience I genuinely had.

          The question is really whether my memory and interpretation are correct. And that's always up for discussion. But you already know my conclusion on those questions. There were only two witnesses to what went down those few weeks and one of them is dead. Until I find out more (which doesn't seem likely right now) I'm content to consider the experience real enough to be a part of my life story and something to take into account in constructing my model of what the universe is like.

      2. [2]
        lmn
        Link Parent
        That's certainly a dramatic example - much more than I was expecting. Can you point to a resource to read more about your style of magic?

        That's certainly a dramatic example - much more than I was expecting. Can you point to a resource to read more about your style of magic?

        1. alessa
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          Not really. I'm not going to lead anyone down that path. If you're meant to experience it this incarnation, you will. As for me, I stopped doing that stuff. If I had kept going I would've died. My...

          Not really. I'm not going to lead anyone down that path. If you're meant to experience it this incarnation, you will.

          As for me, I stopped doing that stuff. If I had kept going I would've died. My current best rec to get on the path to your own growth and power is shamanic flight. Michael Harner is the go-to guy for that. His books Cave and Cosmos and The Way of the Shaman both include excellent instruction on how to do it, and with a little persistence anyone can. The spirits can teach you anything I could and much more, except they have a much better idea what you're here for and how to help you do what you came here to do.