13 votes

Fantasies of forced sex are common. Do they enable rape culture?

12 comments

  1. [2]
    patience_limited
    Link
    Okay, I'm going to be openly "female who's had non-consensual fantasies" for a brief response. There are two key points: Personal NC fantasy stops precisely when you want it to, and only goes as...
    • Exemplary

    Okay, I'm going to be openly "female who's had non-consensual fantasies" for a brief response.

    There are two key points:

    1. Personal NC fantasy stops precisely when you want it to, and only goes as far as you find desirable. In effect, it's a power fantasy about having an unquestionable, unlimited "NO", and thus, complete freedom to say "YES!".

    2. Published NC fantasies are produced by a marketplace, and the boundaries expand to meet demand. While they can broaden the imagination, the standards and memetics of NC fantasy porn can easily bend towards scary extremes.

    You need to know your own boundaries, consume carefully, and have a varied "diet" with lots of real human interaction and discussion to stay grounded about the stimuli and responses you're building. You can build tolerance to just about any kind of sensory input that jacks up your brain chemistry, and sex does that beyond question.

    I don't believe that personal fantasies are a perfect mirror of social norms and movements, nor do they need to be interrogated as such. As to porn, the evidence of its social impact or promotion of rape culture is so muddy that I can't weigh in one way or the other. Just keep doing what you can to behave well outside of whatever dark imaginings get you off.

    13 votes
    1. NaraVara
      Link Parent
      Kind of an aside, but your comment reminded me that this is one of those things that worries me a lot about internet porn. I'm not inclined towards prudishness generally, but I really worry about...

      You need to know your own boundaries, consume carefully, and have a varied "diet" with lots of real human interaction and discussion to stay grounded about the stimuli and responses you're building.

      Kind of an aside, but your comment reminded me that this is one of those things that worries me a lot about internet porn. I'm not inclined towards prudishness generally, but I really worry about what it does to young people's ideas about appropriate behavior.

      For context, I'm training a puppy right now and one of the things you have to remember is that they need lots of social interaction while they're young to know how to act as they get older. It's only through experience with other dogs where they learn things like how much aggression is too much when play fighting, what counts as a playful nip and what counts as biting too hard, how to walk away or say "refuse" without scaring the other dogs, etc.

      I can't imagine people are very different and, unlike dogs, sex is a form of "play" for us. You need experience and socialization to learn how to do it in a way that's respectful of, and gratifying for your partners. But when someone's sexual awakenings, experimentation, and "socialization" is all coming through a consumptive industry where the only feedback you ever get is "CLICK HERE TO SEE MORE!" that's gotta do something to your head.

      I don't think we can put the internet porn genie back in the bottle, but we really need decent sex ed classes that address it as a separate module. I don't know what parents would say if you propose a class on "responsible" porn consumption though.

      6 votes
  2. [5]
    alyaza
    Link
    since this is a... charged topic sometimes, to say the least, i would like to ask that if you're going to comment, please read the article instead of being reactionary and commenting something...

    since this is a... charged topic sometimes, to say the least, i would like to ask that if you're going to comment, please read the article instead of being reactionary and commenting something based on the title alone as people are prone to do sometimes when the title includes verbiage that they don't like. if you don't, your comment will most likely have nothing to do with what the article gets at and it's going to almost certainly cause some needless discourse that also has nothing to do with an article that actually raises some interesting points you might actively agree with.

    21 votes
    1. [4]
      gpl
      Link Parent
      I feel like this comment should be stickied on every post. (yes this comment is prob off topic)

      I feel like this comment should be stickied on every post. (yes this comment is prob off topic)

      1. [2]
        alyaza
        Link Parent
        eh, i think people in general are pretty good about reading the articles here; it's just sometimes with topics people can be really opinionated on like this people will sometimes snap people back...

        eh, i think people in general are pretty good about reading the articles here; it's just sometimes with topics people can be really opinionated on like this people will sometimes snap people back into the habits reddit or other websites beat into them where being quick on the draw or knocking down an idea the article didn't put forward got more attention/upvotes than engaging with the article did, so it's nice to occasionally remind people to try and restrain themselves because often, articles like this don't even really disagree with their views.

        8 votes
        1. gpl
          Link Parent
          People here are pretty good, but it’s a good reminder nonetheless :)

          People here are pretty good, but it’s a good reminder nonetheless :)

          3 votes
      2. Jedi
        Link Parent
        If this were stickied to every post it'd just get ignored. Though I agree with Alyaza’s response, Tildes are pretty good with “RTFA”.

        If this were stickied to every post it'd just get ignored. Though I agree with Alyaza’s response, Tildes are pretty good with “RTFA”.

        5 votes
  3. knocklessmonster
    Link
    I think there's a fine line between conventional rape (a physical assault, trauma) and the forced sex of fantasy. The critical component is in the fantasy the one being forcibly sexed is typically...

    I think there's a fine line between conventional rape (a physical assault, trauma) and the forced sex of fantasy. The critical component is in the fantasy the one being forcibly sexed is typically a character who wants it, on a conscious level, and as mentioned in the article is attracted to the other person. It functions, in a sense, as a physical icebreaker.

    The harm would probably be the cross into reality, as is usually the case if you look at some of the harm porn has caused. If somebody reads too many books but thinks about the situation in the wrong light, they may think everybody is like that with them, especially if they've misread somebody's signals (flirting vs being friendly), and the situation could occur.

    On its own, even considering the concerns of a rape culture, I see nothing wrong with the fantasy, but everything wrong when somebody can't divorce it from reality, and nobody should feel bad for having them, as long as there is absolutely no intention of giving them any action.

    8 votes
  4. [4]
    izik1
    Link
    and another article down the knowledge hatch Thanks for linking, I don't really have much interest in debating the topic itself (as I seem to get unlucky with my conversation partners every time I...

    and another article down the knowledge hatch

    Thanks for linking, I don't really have much interest in debating the topic itself (as I seem to get unlucky with my conversation partners every time I give a world view), so uhh...:

    CMV (Change My View) moment: My world views did change slightly with this article (I never found CNC to be terrible per-se, but I feel slightly more open to its existence now)

    Honestly, I had a bit of trouble understanding the article, and where it was coming from, perhaps I'm trying to latch onto "the side the article chooses" and it isn't choosing one? Perhaps my comprehension isn't good enough.

    Today I actually looked up #metoo despite kind of already guessing at its meaning, so that's a thing I guess.

    5 votes
    1. [3]
      spit-evil-olive-tips
      Link Parent
      My interpretation of it is that the author wanted to present "here's a complicated, messy subject without an obvious right answer, but it's something we should be open to talking about more"...

      Honestly, I had a bit of trouble understanding the article, and where it was coming from, perhaps I'm trying to latch onto "the side the article chooses" and it isn't choosing one?

      My interpretation of it is that the author wanted to present "here's a complicated, messy subject without an obvious right answer, but it's something we should be open to talking about more" instead of "here's a complicated, messy subject but I have figured out The Right Answer and will now try to convince you".

      8 votes
      1. alyaza
        Link Parent
        yeah. it's actually somewhat refreshing, honestly, to have article on something like this present two contrasting viewpoints and then not really take a side so much as say "here's something that...

        yeah. it's actually somewhat refreshing, honestly, to have article on something like this present two contrasting viewpoints and then not really take a side so much as say "here's something that we should have a conversation on." i think at times a lot of the people who write articles like this feel obligated--or are forced by their editors or someone above them--to take a side, but sometimes it's just a lot more interesting to lay out the different perspectives of an idea without really casting judgment on which one is better, like this article does. (also i honestly think it's just better for a lot of conversations, because then people on the other side of the article's argument don't feel obligated to try and refute or dispute the article and they can just piggyback off of some of its points.)

        3 votes
      2. izik1
        Link Parent
        I think it's probably for the best that it left me confused then, since it probably succeeded and I just didn't/don't have the knowledge to properly form a solid opinion on. ninja edit: grammar...

        I think it's probably for the best that it left me confused then, since it probably succeeded and I just didn't/don't have the knowledge to properly form a solid opinion on.

        ninja edit: grammar because 22:43

        2 votes