41 votes

Contrapoints - Men

23 comments

  1. [21]
    imperialismus
    Link
    She says it’s simultaneously flattering and a bit of a scary responsibility that so many people cite her as an inspiration to leave incel/redpill/alt-right kind of ideologies. Some of her videos...

    She says it’s simultaneously flattering and a bit of a scary responsibility that so many people cite her as an inspiration to leave incel/redpill/alt-right kind of ideologies. Some of her videos are too esoteric for me and I certainly don’t agree with all of her conclusions, but this is the sort of video essay that shows why she changes minds where so many other feminist/leftist thinkers simply harden the resolve of the opposition. Approaching people with empathy actually works.

    Regular people don’t join evil ideologies because deep down, they were always little Hitlers. There are some like that, sociopaths with no regard for other people’s well-being, but they are a minority. Most people join toxic ideologies because they promise to resolve real issues they’re struggling with, and more palatable, mainstream alternatives don’t offer anything resembling a cure. Like Natalie says, when mainstream feminism’s response to men’s struggles is basically ‘you’re unhappy because you’re toxic, stop doing that,’ is it any wonder that people seek out actually toxic ideologies that don’t just offer a diagnosis of ‘lifestyle disease you can blame on your own shitty choices’ but actually promises a cure?

    I think you went wrong somewhere along the way, but I acknowledge you had a shitty starting point and needed to get away from it is a much better basis for polite conversation than You had everything you could ever wish for and then you chose to run away to join the Hitler Youth.

    29 votes
    1. [18]
      Akir
      Link Parent
      I think empathy is the wrong term here. Natalie's persona in these videos are largely sarcastic and aloof. There are three primary reasons why she manages to get through to these alt-right types,...

      I think empathy is the wrong term here. Natalie's persona in these videos are largely sarcastic and aloof. There are three primary reasons why she manages to get through to these alt-right types, one of which the use of these sarcastic, constantly joking, subversive personas; she speaks the language, so to speak.

      Reason 2 is because the format doesn't allow the viewer to interject. That allows her to get across all of her points, which she takes excruciating care to make sure that they are understandable and digestable.

      The third and most important reason is the part that I think you are conflating with empathy; she tells them that they are not entirely wrong. I mean, look at this one; she says that yes, some feminists have anti-male views and men are having a bad time. And she makes it a big deal, making it a part of her conclusions.

      10 votes
      1. [4]
        imperialismus
        Link Parent
        Yeah, no, none of what you said made a convincing case that empathy is the wrong term. Wikipedia, which is as good as any other source in this context, says that empathy is ‘the capacity to...

        Yeah, no, none of what you said made a convincing case that empathy is the wrong term. Wikipedia, which is as good as any other source in this context, says that empathy is ‘the capacity to understand or feel what another person is experiencing from within their frame of reference, that is, the capacity to place oneself in another's position.’ Which is exactly what she’s doing. Looking at the issue from these lonely young men’s perspective.

        Psychology distinguishes between cognitive and affective empathy. Affective empathy is the willingness and ability to experience other people’s emotions as our own, and closely linked to what we casually might call sympathy: when you see your friend crying, you become sad; when your friend is smiling, you experience shared joy. Cognitive empathy is the more formal term for putting yourself in another person’s shoes: the ability to imagine the world as they experience it, and to understand the kinds of emotions and thought processes that result. Contrapoints’ attitude is generally a generous dash of cognitive empathy combined with a small but significant amount of affective empathy.

        I don’t think that employing sarcasm and referencing memes precludes empathy. Because there are frequent moments within this video, and her other videos, that are dead serious. It might be easy to miss among all the jokes, but I choose to believe that when she’s speaking in a neutral tone of voice and without joking around, that’s intended to be taken seriously. And what she’s saying is this: I may not approve of the place you’ve ended up, but I consider the reasons you ended up there to be valid and real issues deserving of sympathy; they’re real problems that need to be solved, even if the solution you landed on is not a good one.

        Reason 2 is because the format doesn't allow the viewer to interject.

        The format is a Youtube video. YT has a comment section but the way it works, it places a far, far higher importance on the video itself than the comments. Only a small fraction of the viewers will seriously read and consider arguments made in the comment section. Therefore, it functions basically like a monologue. The interesting fact is that many leftists and feminist types perform this sort of monologue on Youtube, but very few of them seem to reach people on the opposing side and make them change their minds.

        15 votes
        1. [3]
          Akir
          Link Parent
          We're speaking different languages. That's a much broader definition of empathy than I've ever seen it used in. The version of empathy you are using is so broad that it might as well just be...

          We're speaking different languages. That's a much broader definition of empathy than I've ever seen it used in. The version of empathy you are using is so broad that it might as well just be 'understanding'.

          But the real problem with communication is actually from my side. I can't seem to put together arguments properly before noon, it seems. It's not so much that empathy is the wrong term in so much as it's not the full picture. What motivated my comment, specifically, when you said "Approaching people with empathy actually works." While, of course, you do need empathy to change people's minds, it's one facet of many that you will need to have, and that's what I'm trying to get at in a whole.

          And no, I don't think that her sarcastic joking personas deny her empathy either. Rather, I'm saying that those attitudes and manner of speach is what allows alt-righters to empathize with her. It's a form of endearment.

          8 votes
          1. [2]
            imperialismus
            Link Parent
            If you have an issue with both the vernacular and the scientific definition of empathy, both of which I cited, don’t take it up with me. Take it up with everybody who uses that term. I don’t...

            If you have an issue with both the vernacular and the scientific definition of empathy, both of which I cited, don’t take it up with me. Take it up with everybody who uses that term. I don’t particularly feel like getting into a discussion about semantics when my usage is in agreement with both casual and technical usage.

            6 votes
            1. Akir
              Link Parent
              I already said the miscommunication was my fault. You don't have to be so aggressive. I'm not here to fight.

              I already said the miscommunication was my fault. You don't have to be so aggressive. I'm not here to fight.

              11 votes
      2. [12]
        Gaywallet
        Link Parent
        To be fair, she mentions in the video times where women treated her a certain way when she was presenting as male, such as one case in which an approaching woman crosses the road rather than walk...

        To be fair, she mentions in the video times where women treated her a certain way when she was presenting as male, such as one case in which an approaching woman crosses the road rather than walk on the same side. There are other such instances where she can offer insight because she did experience being/presenting male, albeit perhaps not a typical man. These insights are empathetic in nature not just because she understands them, but in many cases because she also experienced them in her past.

        This is a bit off topic but I think it's particularly interesting to hear her thoughts on garnering attention in public - of women being something to be admired, worshipped, adored, etc. This desire to be seen, even when sometimes the way you are seen is negative or weird, is a strong desire that I also have and is the reason that I sometimes present female in public. She's absolutely correct in that men are often invisible or perceived as a threat (interestingly if you present extra gay this is often not the case) and that this can seriously fuck with someone's sense of self worth. I was racking my brain to try and figure out situations in which men might receive similar attention, and the only thing that came to mind was when people are particularly skilled in something - typically something handyman related such as tuning cars, repair, plumbing, woodcraft, etc. Interestingly enough, I think women often don't get the same kind of attention for a good job that men do. There's a good amount of balancing that needs to start happening for all genders to get the positive attention that they deserve.

        9 votes
        1. CALICO
          Link Parent
          In my own experience as a bearded, fit fellow: queer clubs, nerd conventions, and hippie shit. Niche environments like that tend to provide a kind of social cohesion brought upon by that these...

          situations in which men might receive similar attention

          In my own experience as a bearded, fit fellow: queer clubs, nerd conventions, and hippie shit. Niche environments like that tend to provide a kind of social cohesion brought upon by that these environments tend to attract specific kinds of people, united by values or experiences, and the fellowship intrinsic to them.

          Occasionally when seen reading in public that'll attract attention, or sometimes I'll have a graphic tee that gets some comments.
          I had a roommate once who could leave our apartment alone and come back with five new friends. I learned a lot from him about body language and small talk that works to disarm people and get total strangers to open up and interact. He was a rare breed of person, but it has helped with the whole invisible or threatening thing.

          10 votes
        2. [10]
          unknown user
          Link Parent
          Going after the same part that @CALICO did, I think those situations are not at all that little. Definitely less than the inverse, but not that much. But maybe men are generally less trained for...

          situations in which men might receive similar attention

          Going after the same part that @CALICO did, I think those situations are not at all that little. Definitely less than the inverse, but not that much. But maybe men are generally less trained for noticing the attention they get, and women (understandably, in their vulnerable situation within a patriarchal society) do it more subtly in comparison. Just like different type of men are attracted to different kinds of women, different kinds of men grab the attention of different kind of women, and it's all contextual and complex (who you want to get laid with might be different from who you want to date for a few weeks/months, and both of them might tell nothing of who you'd marry). For men, it kinda boils down to toxic masculinity, at least in heterosexual situations: you're not taught how to be attractive, you're not taught to love and care for yourself, you're not taught to read cues from other people's behaviour, etc. Attention is out there, we just aren't taught what to do with it or how to deal with it.

          An average guy that looks after himself sporting a great suit or a nice tee and jeans can easily grab lots of attention, even equivalent or more than a similarly decent woman (given a good-looking fashionable guy that maintains himself well enough is not really abundant). You don't even need to be particularly masculine, regardless of attire.

          IDK what I'm talking about, sorry, kinda got lost on a tangent. What I want to say is men aren't really invisible because of a lack of attention, it is because of patriarchal forces that they often fail to notice and deal with the attention they get, and the same social structures make it difficult to improve their selves to get even more.

          6 votes
          1. [8]
            Gaywallet
            Link Parent
            Obviously this is going to depend on the person itself, but I wanted to point out here that women compliment much, much more than men. Here's a graph taken from a recent study where gender...

            even equivalent or more than a similarly decent woman

            Obviously this is going to depend on the person itself, but I wanted to point out here that women compliment much, much more than men. Here's a graph taken from a recent study where gender patterns in compliments were revisited. While the findings were not as stark as the pioneering studies in the field, there's still a huge bias in modern studies with women dominating in the total percentage of compliments given out (73.3% of compliments in the compiled unstructured setting) and the vast majority of compliments on appearance with women complimenting other F->F compliments on appearance being 80% of all compliments on appearance in the unstructured setting.

            As I mentioned, however, men do actually do a good job of complimenting each other on goal oriented tasks. Refer back to the image in the first link above, and you'll see that men compliment other men a pretty good amount of the time on performance. Table 7 breaks down a study in a structured setting where it becomes quite obvious that M->M compliments on activity are the vast majority (~97%) of all compliments M->M in a structured setting. Even in an unstructured setting the vast majority of male to male compliments are still activity based.

            Sometimes it's really hard to see what the grass looks like on the other side of the fence until you actually experience it. I know this is entirely anecdotal to say (I'm hoping all the science I linked can support my point), but having presented as female in public I can tell you the amount of positive attention I've received from women in particular is a stark contrast to what I've experienced from women when presenting male, regardless of how fashionable I am (although I do think I tend to get a bit more compliments when really gaying it up, it's still a black and white difference to when I'm presenting female). If you're comfortable enough in your masculinity to dress as a woman, I would suggest giving it a try to see how different it is. For what it's worth, it's really changed my behavior towards men - I try to compliment them on their appearance more often because I know how much more starved for attention I used to be.

            9 votes
            1. [7]
              unknown user
              (edited )
              Link Parent
              Well, on that last point of yours, I think the effect of potential romantic relationships come into play: assuming two parties potentially sexually attracted to each other, that compliments are...

              Well, on that last point of yours, I think the effect of potential romantic relationships come into play: assuming two parties potentially sexually attracted to each other, that compliments are less when such potential is not expressly desired is not a surprise to me. Tho this is just me thinking out loud, w/o anything to support it.

              The biggest struggle in a man's life is to not be gay. Now given that you're gay I'm sure you know better than me how harsh the society can be towards people like you, and that as a male you've experienced what it is like to have to not be gay, which is a big part of interactions between men (unless this kind of toxic masculinity is particularly more present where I am; tho AFAIK western men are way more stingy with heterosexual touching and general bonding in friendships): you constantly walk thin lines, and one side of that is being ridiculed and humiliated. This is enforced by people of both sexes (e.g. how my mom reacted initially to my using canvas totes [incredibly practical stuff] and my failed attempt at wearing a fedora hat [didn't look as good as I thought]: "women wear that!", subtext: "that compromises your masculinity which is more important than practical needs, comfort or your subjective aesthetics"), in their reactions to a given man's behaviour and looks. Depending on the kind of social circles you have (and I've had anything from ignorant fucks to children of some richest families of the country) there are different kinds of criteria based on covert or overt homophobia that governs the stereotypes, fashion, preferences, behaviour, relationships, small-talk topics, slang and interests of men in all contexts of their lives. And in all of these there are lines that you must not pass, or you've stepped into the territory of ridiculous and cringeworthy gaydom (these adjectives are of course from the PoV of our hypothetical social circles), people deride you, you become (slightly or not) less attractive, less charismatic, less included. This incentivises you to adhere quite strictly to the said "lines", and feel the need to demonstrate your masculinity, your stoic nonchalance, your unbreakable integrity, etc., incessantly, and because you find yourself in a race to the rank of "alpha male", which is impossible to win, so it turns into an eternal self loathing and cynical look at one's own essence and image, which are only eroded by other burden a patriarchal society loads onto you, all of which lead to a toxic culture where interactions are detrimental to each others' mental self-image and each others' confidence, where compliments are replaced with downplaying cynical remarks (because compliments are gay and you must not under no circumstances be gay), where both physical and emotional bonding can simply not exist unless within certain masculine guidelines (can't just cry with or caress your mate, that's for fags, you pat them on the back or something, displaying some mild violence and citing the masculine property of Power, proving you're not a gay and instead you invite your friend to some sort of non-gay stoic exchange of feelings within the framework of a platonic friendship). Proper compliments cannot exist here.

              Women seem to not really have this problem. Their bonding, physical and emotional, is not stigmatised to this extent. Maybe the other side of the medallion of the same patriarchal forces are at play here: they are weak, clumsy, hysteric and hedonists (edit: from the PoV of a patriarchal society, of course, not mine), so no surprise they need this sort of bonding.

              IDK, but I can say for sure that this sort of bullshit is diminishing. This sort of toxic masculinity seems to slowly go away. Or maybe it's just my changing of my social circles, but what do I know. I really wish it just went away tho. It is an unnecessary burden on us. We should be able to love and like each other and ourselves without stigma, for who we are; express our feelings in positive manners as opposed to hiding them up in cynical remarks or exaggerated violent and reticent gestures; stop dreading being mistaken for a gay person, for gay is not a bad thing (and it is really interesting to watch otherwise pro-gay heterosexual people take part in these don't-be-gay-or-you're-fucked games), and for giving a hug or saying "you look nice" or "I am a beautiful man" does not make you gay in and of itself. These stuff is so cringy when you look at it from an objective viewpoint...

              4 votes
              1. [3]
                Gaywallet
                Link Parent
                Yes, I think there's a good deal of this happening. However, as you can see by all the numbers, women still compliment women at rates often multiple times that of men complimenting men. It's not...

                assuming two parties potentially sexually attracted to each other, that compliments are less when such potential is not expressly desired is not a surprise to me.

                Yes, I think there's a good deal of this happening. However, as you can see by all the numbers, women still compliment women at rates often multiple times that of men complimenting men. It's not just sexual attraction, it's practically fundamental to female culture. It's part of the reason I feel I need to express myself as female as well, not just to receive the compliments because I'm starved for attention, but also because I naturally like to give out compliments and sometimes it's easier to say something nice about a girl without any perceived sexual undertones.

                The biggest struggle in a man's life is to not be gay. Now given that you're gay I'm sure you know better than me how harsh the society can be towards people like you, and that as a male you've experienced what it is like to have to not be gay

                I'm guessing you're at least in your late 20s if not older, given this comment. I acutely know exactly what you mean, and often hid in plain sight as I'm attracted to all genders and it's easy enough to "pretend" to be straight in certain company for social reasons.

                This is changing, slowly, and we're seeing a lot of younger males today partaking in activities that would get you labelled as gay when I grew up - physical intimacy, sharing emotions that aren't anger, etc. I truly believe we need to destroy the social constructs of gender to move forward as a society and I think we're on a good track right now (albeit slow for my tastes).

                This is enforced by people of both sexes

                People of both sexes enforce a lot of shit that's just simply not healthy. It's not just by telling people they aren't womanly or manly enough, it's also by telling people they should act a certain way, such as "boys don't cry". Interestingly I think this kind of reinforcement primarily comes from individuals older than the person being scolded, but there is definitely some reinforcement that comes from insecure individuals of the same age or younger.

                This sort of toxic masculinity seems to slowly go away.

                One thing I noticed from a young age is that older men didn't seem to generally suffer from these problems. Ever see a grandfather who doesn't hug every family member they see? Fathers at family reunions often sit around with each other and talk about life and the emotions it brings. I used to think this was just bonding under the guise of similar interests, but I've seen many males start to open themselves up to the idea that "hey you know what, I can hug a guy and have it be totally not gay". I think there's something to be said about just spending enough time on this earth to realize that everyone is struggling with something and that brief positive social interactions can exist and worrying so much about perception to everyone but the person you're interacting with isn't really all that important.

                It is an unnecessary burden on us. We should be able to love and like each other and ourselves without stigma...

                Then be the change you want to see in the world! I'm trying to do my part to make all my beautiful brothers confident in themselves and let them receive the compliments they need and deserve. Sure, I get to hide behind the guise of being gay or perhaps even worse being a trans girl (although the truth is that I'm nonbinary), but if you think that's an excuse then I invite you to spend a week in my shoes and you let me know whether the trade-off is worth it. I personally find that a few haters in my life is not enough to deter me from sharing love in this world and trying to make it a better place. There's nothing quite like seeing someone's face light up at a compliment and genuinely knowing you made someone's day just a little better - life's hard enough; we all need a little light from time to time.

                4 votes
                1. [2]
                  unknown user
                  Link Parent
                  Almost past the middle of my 20s :) Oh, sure, no debating that. I just tried to find a reason for why women don't compliment men as often as they do other women. It is in many cases people who...

                  I'm guessing you're at least in your late 20s if not older, given this comment.

                  Almost past the middle of my 20s :)

                  However, as you can see by all the numbers, women still compliment women at rates often multiple times that of men complimenting men.

                  Oh, sure, no debating that. I just tried to find a reason for why women don't compliment men as often as they do other women.

                  It's not just by telling people they aren't womanly or manly enough, it's also by telling people they should act a certain way, such as "boys don't cry". Interestingly I think this kind of reinforcement primarily comes from individuals older than the person being scolded, but there is definitely some reinforcement that comes from insecure individuals of the same age or younger.

                  It is in many cases people who hadn't gone through big traumas that scold for crying. I had a couple, and can easily say that a good crying is like a cold shower in the middle of a deset for your soul: it releaves you from (at least part of) the stress and/or emotional weight you're under, it helps you relax, it makes you happy even. I didn't really cry up until when I lost my dad three years ago; since then I'm more soppy, becoming emotional over random cliché soap opera scenes etc...

                  One thing I noticed from a young age is that older men didn't seem to generally suffer from these problems. Ever see a grandfather who doesn't hug every family member they see?

                  I find that this sort of thing is most prevalent in non-family circles: friends, colleagues, etc. Especially acute in adolescents' social lives (kids, even: the other day walking past a playground I overheard one boy go "are you gaaAayy??" disparagingly; didn't see him but that was the voice/speech of a prepubescent boy; made me think of all the BS that I've been taught by kids my age back then, just like possibly almost all other kids...) but still present thereafter, only more subtly.

                  Then be the change you want to see in the world!

                  That's my life motto! Tho I've picked a way a bit different to yours: I'm making masculinity my own, redefining it for myself, and just living it. Filing away the rough edges and polishing the better sides. FWIW, I have a rather agender mindset with this: we have organs, the rest (and more, should we want) is up to us. Gender is a game we play, and I, as a cis male, build me a role that makes use of the conventional but doesn't compromise on progress, happiness and comfort (and this includes being playful with social rules around stuff like compliments and whatnot). So far, it's been good for me. Hope you're enjoying what you're doing, too!

                  3 votes
                  1. Gaywallet
                    Link Parent
                    Fantastic, the world needs more positive masculine role models. I am, although it's very difficult to figure out what's right for me. I have a weird mix of not caring about how others perceive me...

                    I'm making masculinity my own, redefining it for myself, and just living it.

                    Fantastic, the world needs more positive masculine role models.

                    Gender is a game we play, and I, as a cis male, build me a role that makes use of the conventional but doesn't compromise on progress, happiness and comfort (and this includes being playful with social rules around stuff like compliments and whatnot). So far, it's been good for me. Hope you're enjoying what you're doing, too!

                    I am, although it's very difficult to figure out what's right for me. I have a weird mix of not caring about how others perceive me but also getting (and deeply desiring) validation when I am perceived in a particular fashion so I'm trying to figure out how to balance my own indifference with my needs and desires.

                    Maybe I'll figure out the right equilibrium one day, but until then I'm just trying to express and enjoy my life as much as I can and to spread the love and light to others so that they can live a good life as well.

                    2 votes
              2. [3]
                culturedleftfoot
                Link Parent
                I can tell you're speaking from your own dissatisfaction with past experiences, which is why I'm not really going to challenge the other stuff that I may disagree with... but maybe there is some...

                The biggest struggle in a man's life is to not be gay.

                I can tell you're speaking from your own dissatisfaction with past experiences, which is why I'm not really going to challenge the other stuff that I may disagree with... but maybe there is some nuance that would be better expressed if you take another stab at what you're trying to hone in on, because this is a pretty outrageous claim, even with your subsequent explanation. Perhaps it's the biggest struggle in a non-heterosexual man's life, or for a boy in his formative years.

                1 vote
                1. [2]
                  unknown user
                  Link Parent
                  It is more about "to not be perceived as gay", not becoming one. Maybe that makes it more clear? It is most relevant in heterosexual circles of any age, especially those where overt or covert...

                  It is more about "to not be perceived as gay", not becoming one. Maybe that makes it more clear? It is most relevant in heterosexual circles of any age, especially those where overt or covert homophobia is part of the culture.

                  4 votes
                  1. culturedleftfoot
                    Link Parent
                    I got what you meant; my point was that that is hardly the generalization to make ahead of taking care of one's kids, finding a wife/girlfriend/date, achieving status in one's profession, etc. If...

                    I got what you meant; my point was that that is hardly the generalization to make ahead of taking care of one's kids, finding a wife/girlfriend/date, achieving status in one's profession, etc. If anything, men struggle constantly against seeming weak or vulnerable... which is often associated with being gay, but that's a distinction worth making. You make valid points about the internalization and normalization of homophobia, but your suggestion, as worded, bordered on ludicrous.

                    3 votes
          2. Eylrid
            Link Parent
            This gets at the heart of it. We hear a lot about what not to do, but we need to learn what to do. We need a movement that instead of saying "Stop it, you're bad" says "You can be a good person...

            For men, it kinda boils down to toxic masculinity, at least in heterosexual situations: you're not taught how to be attractive, you're not taught to love and care for yourself, you're not taught to read cues from other people's behaviour, etc. Attention is out there, we just aren't taught what to do with it or how to deal with it.

            This gets at the heart of it. We hear a lot about what not to do, but we need to learn what to do. We need a movement that instead of saying "Stop it, you're bad" says "You can be a good person and here's how." As Natalie said we need something new to aspire to.

            4 votes
      3. jgb
        Link Parent
        You're totally right, but the fact that she is able to do that implies a certain level of empathy.

        I think empathy is the wrong term here. Natalie's persona in these videos are largely sarcastic and aloof. There are three primary reasons why she manages to get through to these alt-right types, one of which the use of these sarcastic, constantly joking, subversive personas; she speaks the language, so to speak.

        You're totally right, but the fact that she is able to do that implies a certain level of empathy.

        3 votes
    2. [2]
      mike10010100
      Link Parent
      The thing is, it's a ridiculously tiny proportion of "mainstream feminism" that's doing that. This line is more of a tactic by right-wing organizations and people to push people away from Feminism...

      when mainstream feminism’s response to men’s struggles is basically ‘you’re unhappy because you’re toxic, stop doing that,’

      The thing is, it's a ridiculously tiny proportion of "mainstream feminism" that's doing that. This line is more of a tactic by right-wing organizations and people to push people away from Feminism than any actual feminist talking point.

      It's also partially because citing "toxic masculinity" without understanding the meaning behind it ("society's standards of masculinity are toxic") puts people on the defensive. The thing is, many correct ideas put people on the defensive if they aren't educated about the topic.

      This is a PR issue more than it is a left-wing ideology issue.

      3 votes
      1. moocow1452
        Link Parent
        Yes and if there is poop in a room, and you are also looking for poop, you will likely find it, no matter how large the room is. Pinning systemic trouble on a troublemaker is a neutral tactic, and...

        This is a PR issue more than it is a left-wing ideology issue.

        Yes and if there is poop in a room, and you are also looking for poop, you will likely find it, no matter how large the room is. Pinning systemic trouble on a troublemaker is a neutral tactic, and that's probably why Nat suggested that a solution had to come from within.

        2 votes
  2. moocow1452
    Link
    Nothing really to say here that isn't said in the video. I've definitely sort of perceived that nothingness that Nat talks about goals of masculinity and the toxic competitiveness involved in...

    Nothing really to say here that isn't said in the video. I've definitely sort of perceived that nothingness that Nat talks about goals of masculinity and the toxic competitiveness involved in that, as well as my perception of solutions being "just fix capitalism, it will solve everything! :D" and "just wait your turn, you oppressive asshole." I'm not super tied to my masculinity either, so I too, might not be in a place where I can give advice to people born as men, who feel like men, and construct a significant part of their identity around being men.

    But what I came up with though is that I'm a fallible person, who makes mistakes, and while I can't clean my ledger so to speak, I can at least help others and tell them what not to do. My purpose in life is to be surpassed in my failings by others I can help with, and to share my successes with those who helped me. The idea of glory or winning or selfish generosity is just feeding my need for external validation. That isn't helping anybody, myself included, so why play that game?

    6 votes
  3. Qis
    Link
    Ugh, she is so hot. All of the looks in this video are incredibly potent. Blackpilled Carmen Sandiego is my favorite but the champagnegligee is wonderful too. Lolled at "Frank-N-Furter / Violet...

    Ugh, she is so hot. All of the looks in this video are incredibly potent. Blackpilled Carmen Sandiego is my favorite but the champagnegligee is wonderful too. Lolled at "Frank-N-Furter / Violet Chachki / Dita Von Teese spectrum".