15 votes

Why Finland's schools outperform most others across the developed world

15 comments

  1. [5]
    thundergolfer
    (edited )
    Link
    Food provided for students Highly-selective of teachers (10% admittance rate apparently) Non-public school assessment Equal school funding Australia is failing on each of these no-brainer...
    • Food provided for students
    • Highly-selective of teachers (10% admittance rate apparently)
    • Non-public school assessment
    • Equal school funding

    Australia is failing on each of these no-brainer interventions, and is less likely to fix things with a Liberal government in power.

    I need to look more into it, but I've begun thinking that education in Australia is a slow-moving disaster for the country. Across the board student performance is dropping relative to nations like Finland. Australia is behind Kazakstan by some measures. Teaching standards are dropping, and every now and then you hear of farcical situations where students that performed very, very poorly in academics are being accepted into teaching. Mathematics performance has been declining in Australia for 16 years, long enough that yesterday's poorly taught mathematicians are becoming today's math teachers. The best young mathematicians in Australia do not go and teach math. More likely it's the worst young mathematicians in Australia teaching primary students, teachers that sometimes nearly failed their final years of high school.

    There's heaps to also be said of the state of higher education in Australia. I've done 7 years in Australian higher education now, 2 degrees, and was really unimpressed with the quality. There's good reason to think universities are concerned more about attracting foreign students (for more money) and passing students to increase enrolment rates (for more money) than educational standards. My favourite professor in computer science at RMIT was futily trying to maintain standards in his course under pressure from bad students complaining it was too hard. The bad students must win otherwise they fail and drop out, reducing revenues.

    Accepting the premise that highly skilled people doing advanced work is going to be the driver of future economies entails thinking Australia is frankly, fucked. Our minerals and fossil fuel industries are going to die and Australia will be totally incapable of replacing them with anything.

    9 votes
    1. [3]
      Akir
      Link Parent
      It's weird how even 'common sense' solutions get thrown through the dirt when it comes to education. Here in the US someone got the idea that, hey, it might just be a good idea if all of our...

      It's weird how even 'common sense' solutions get thrown through the dirt when it comes to education. Here in the US someone got the idea that, hey, it might just be a good idea if all of our schools met some kind of scientifically determined minimum standards for public school curriculums instead of letting poor states keep falling behind, and yet there is still a good amount of FUD being spread about it to this very day.

      I think we all know how to make schools that provide excellent education to everyone; the problem is that there are many people who simply don't want them for whatever reason. But unfortunately, it seems we have no choice but to listen to them.

      9 votes
      1. [2]
        kfwyre
        Link Parent
        It's worth noting that there are valid criticisms of the Common Core standards, but those can be hard to see through the FUD you mentioned. I actually don't like to align myself as being against...

        It's worth noting that there are valid criticisms of the Common Core standards, but those can be hard to see through the FUD you mentioned.

        I actually don't like to align myself as being against the Common Core standards, even though, as a teacher, I don't support them and think they're broadly detrimental to education in the United States. I mostly keep quiet about it though, partly out of self-preservation but mostly because there was so much junk discourse about them that it wasn't even worth entering the fray. For a time it was fashionable to be against Common Core as the "new math" or whatever misinformation was going viral on Twitter, and I didn't want to feed that nonsense. On the other hand, some of the most prominent critics of the standards are right-wing think tanks and organizations I don't support (and whose conclusions I disagree with). I didn't want my condemnation to bolster their narratives either.

        9 votes
        1. Akir
          Link Parent
          Of course there are valid criticisms of Common Core, but my point was that there is so much vitriol and insanity when it comes to public education that it's difficult to make meaningful changes....

          Of course there are valid criticisms of Common Core, but my point was that there is so much vitriol and insanity when it comes to public education that it's difficult to make meaningful changes. If we didn't have "new math" arguments, maybe we could have had more meaningful conversations to fix any perceived shortcomings.

          Perhaps the worst part of all of this is that the electorate in the US cares so little about education that we have selected people in the upper levels of government who are more than willing to gut public education so we can give more money to private schools which may or may not be required to meet state educational standards.

          5 votes
    2. nothis
      Link Parent
      Why am I baffled by this? It seems like an important job with a very niche skillset but in my mind, you just "become" a teacher, like you're taking any random office job.

      Highly-selective of teachers (10% admittance rate apparently)

      Why am I baffled by this? It seems like an important job with a very niche skillset but in my mind, you just "become" a teacher, like you're taking any random office job.

      2 votes
  2. [10]
    mrbig
    Link
    There seem to be at least 3 posts about the awesomeness of Scandinavia every week. I don't have anything against the content itself, but that's a lot in Tildes' terms. A "Scandinavia is Awesome"...

    There seem to be at least 3 posts about the awesomeness of Scandinavia every week. I don't have anything against the content itself, but that's a lot in Tildes' terms. A "Scandinavia is Awesome" (or something broader that includes more countries) weekly megathread might make sense.

    1. [8]
      mycketforvirrad
      Link Parent
      Tildes needs more content from outside of North America, not less. We may only be 27 million people in the Nordics, but there are great stories to highlight from this region of the world and...

      Tildes needs more content from outside of North America, not less. We may only be 27 million people in the Nordics, but there are great stories to highlight from this region of the world and interesting voices to hear in my opinion. And I enjoy posting them. :D

      You can always hide the content that doesn't appeal to you through the tag filter. Not every piece of content interests me here on Tildes, but I have found opting out of certain subgroups to be of benefit.

      11 votes
      1. Eric_the_Cerise
        Link Parent
        My dos centavos ... I love the various "Scandinavia is Awesome" posts t/out Tildes and I do not want them funneled away into a single megathread. In a world slowly going crazy from the heat, I...

        My dos centavos ... I love the various "Scandinavia is Awesome" posts t/out Tildes and I do not want them funneled away into a single megathread. In a world slowly going crazy from the heat, I think Scandinavia is one of the few places left on Earth that actually is awesome, so I don't think it's bias or self-promotion to regularly post articles talking about why.

        --another disgruntled American.

        6 votes
      2. [6]
        mrbig
        Link Parent
        If that's a constant source of content within a narrow subject, I just think it would be practical to concentrate rather than disperse, that is all. I do like content about Nordic countries, and...

        If that's a constant source of content within a narrow subject, I just think it would be practical to concentrate rather than disperse, that is all.

        I do like content about Nordic countries, and would not be interested in hiding it using tags.

        1 vote
        1. [5]
          mycketforvirrad
          Link Parent
          I wouldn't class the country of origin of any content as a subject matter. The range of subjects coming from these five countries is pretty broad.

          I wouldn't class the country of origin of any content as a subject matter. The range of subjects coming from these five countries is pretty broad.

          7 votes
          1. [4]
            mrbig
            Link Parent
            I think most threads about Nordic countries fit on the category "Something Awesome Sweden/Norway/Denmark do/does/has-done". Maybe a megathread about cool initiatives from countries that are not...

            I think most threads about Nordic countries fit on the category "Something Awesome Sweden/Norway/Denmark do/does/has-done".

            Maybe a megathread about cool initiatives from countries that are not the US could be of use.

            2 votes
            1. [3]
              mycketforvirrad
              Link Parent
              That's not the impression I get from briefly skimming my posting history. I feel that is quite a reductive take on the content I post. But everyone is entitled to their opinion. I know that I...

              That's not the impression I get from briefly skimming my posting history. I feel that is quite a reductive take on the content I post. But everyone is entitled to their opinion. I know that I strive to be broad ranging with the subjects I post about the Nordics, in order to avoid any possible accusations of 'Scandinavian Utopia' bias arising.

              Megathreads in general aren't my cup of tea, but I would be willing to watch on and see how they develop as a concept if someone else was willing to explore the idea. I doubt I would contribute personally.

              5 votes
              1. [2]
                mrbig
                Link Parent
                I was not referring necessarily just to your content. I don’t even know how much of this content is usually posted by you.

                I was not referring necessarily just to your content. I don’t even know how much of this content is usually posted by you.

                1 vote
                1. mycketforvirrad
                  Link Parent
                  That's fair enough. I would say that the bulk of the Nordic content comes from my keyboard. There's certainly a few of us from this region on Tildes, but I confess I am the main culprit when it...

                  That's fair enough. I would say that the bulk of the Nordic content comes from my keyboard. There's certainly a few of us from this region on Tildes, but I confess I am the main culprit when it comes to posts as opposed to comments! :)

                  4 votes
    2. nothis
      Link Parent
      I feel like progressives in the US (who are currently very motivated) often bring up Scandinavia as some kind of ideal to strive towards. For good reason. It's an interpretation of "freedom" as...

      I feel like progressives in the US (who are currently very motivated) often bring up Scandinavia as some kind of ideal to strive towards. For good reason. It's an interpretation of "freedom" as "freedom from worrying about bullshit that has been solved". High taxes, but the state just runs. You don't have to spend mental energy worrying about things like education or health care and can focus on actually living your life instead, which seems like more individual freedom than lower income life in the US.

      9 votes