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'Bernie bros' and the debate about how to deal with the "dirtbag left" explained
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- Title
- The raging controversy over "Bernie Bros" and the so-called dirtbag left, explained
- Published
- Mar 9 2020
- Word count
- 2909 words
I mean, yes the idiots like that do exist. Right wing idiots like that is how we got Trump in the first place.
But every Bernie supporter I know was also pro-Warren, and rabidly so. It would be equally likely that they were Russian operatives trying to sow discord.
I consider this dirtbag left to be as much trolls as the crowd that memed for Trump. Despite a loud online presence, they are merely an annoying minority.
They hurt Bernie's image, anf I'm pretty sure that's the real intent.
I wish I could believe that still, but on places like reddit's /r/breadtube it's almost nothing but hate for the woman.
Honestly, I've pulled away from left-wing spaces due to the bernie bro shit, and I was a Sanders supporter in both 2016 and 2020 (with Warren as second).
Edit: Grammar
Are you serious?
Yeah, I'm referring to specific leftwing spaces that constantly vilify her. I've literally been leaving left-wing spaces over being sick of constantly ridiculous misinformation.
And I'm a Sanders supporter who thinks there is stuff to be critical about on both Sanders and Warren.
Mostly interested in the misogyny on /r/breadtube. I don't remember seeing anything remotely like that but I don't subscribe to it anymore.
I kind of have the same feeling I did with Gamergate and people who genuinely cared about video game journalism ethics in that there are people genuinely interested about detangling enthusiast entertainment press from big publisher interests, but also a ton of misogynists looking for an opportunity to fling poop everywhere and convince themselves it's for great justice. The ratio of supporters to attack dogs for Bernie is probably better than Gamergate ever was, but there's still that same smell in the air.
This summarizes my thoughts exactly. The one feeling (paranoia?) I can't shake though: How much of this furor is stroked by state-sponsored propaganda (both domestic & abroad)? At this point, I've pulled back from a lot of liberal social media & meme communities simply because I don't know what / who to trust anymore. And if I'm completely honest? Aside from some lost chuckles, I don't think I'm missing much.
I've been around Poe's Law too long to even try to figure out who is a foreign agitator because I know that there are enough true believers out there who would throw themselves into traffic for their cause that Russian interference would only get in their way.
I strongly suspect that the dirtbag left movement is in large part encouraged and amplified by Russia’s Internet Research Agency (IRA). There may be legitimate leftist ideology backing some of the members of this group, but I think they are being marshaled by Russian influencers just as the alt right was and continues to be. The rhetoric and methodologies of the dirtbag left resemble that of the Gamergate movement and 8Chan: flagrant misogyny, personal attacks, doxxing, and ironic use of vulgarity.
In writing this comment, I’ve been briefly trying to research analysis connecting Gamergate directly to Russia, but the search results I get are so polluted with bullshit and misinformation, and I’m not finding anything authoritative. E.g., this NBC piece says:
But, it’s totally unclear to me where that "dry run" quote comes from. I can’t find who the source is here.
Like the NBC piece, many sources trying to connect Russia and Gamergate cite FBI agent Clint Watts, who gave congressional testimony in 2016 about Russian influence campaigns and interference in democratic countries around the world. But, his prepared statement, and his testimony don’t call out Gamergate by name.
The Mueller Report describes Russia’s IRA influence campaigns and their "information warfare", but that commentary is (understandably) related to the 2016 presidential election.
My immediate thought when I see mention of notably toxic supporters for anything political these days is that's it likely consists of a substantial number of trolls, particularly Russian. Seems that Russian trolls have written the book on creating a vocal minority to shift the overall perception of various demographics or groups. There's no reason this would be centered on one side of the aisle -- people on the left were just quicker to accept the fact that Russia had its hands where they shouldn't be.
I feel like people should take internet comments less seriously. It baffles me that cable news frequently involves reading tweets and talking about internet outrage. Surely that's one of the many rules of the internet that "someone is always outraged", like Poe's Law, right?
I think it’s more subtle than that. There are the provocateurs who are being outrageous, but also concern trolls feigning outrage. I agree that Russia is playing all sides of all threads that expose cracks in democratic social order.
Right, and I think I wasn't articulating well enough; I think the provocateurs are probably the main vehicle of all this, and that there are probably very few people who genuinely are that outraged. I like that you point out that there are two groups (provocateurs and trolls) that fan the flames. I have a feeling that dynamics between those two loosely coordinated groups has probably perpetuated this. Both groups are acting maliciously, it's just that one is for shits & gigs and the other is information warfare.
Both are problematic. I would say that trolls are probably the easier to spot, because they're in it for the absurdity. Anyone who's looking at people's opinions online should try to be aware that there's no way to determine authenticity.
Right, and it isn't always easy to spot. I'm curious how many people in the world are actively making comments in internet forums solely for the purpose of subtly soliciting products or ideas. It's a bit scary to think about how easily people can be influenced through the Internet, given that they're reading comments or chatting with people whose intentions they have no way of gauging.
Another related article: Elizabeth Warren's exit interview is a warning for the dirtbag left
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Two candidates meaningfully supported medicare for all (arguably just one). Anyone who opposes medicare for all in this country is a ghoul.