I was thinking throughout that video that when you've got a hammer, everything looks like a nail - and then he said it. But this is fucking scary. Police should not be routinely using military...
I was thinking throughout that video that when you've got a hammer, everything looks like a nail - and then he said it.
But this is fucking scary. Police should not be routinely using military equipment. They don't need this to do their job.
It's interesting that there seemed to be one event (bank robbery in 1997) that lead to police having assault rifles. Officers should be able to call in a "higher power", such as a SWAT team, which...
It's interesting that there seemed to be one event (bank robbery in 1997) that lead to police having assault rifles. Officers should be able to call in a "higher power", such as a SWAT team, which has the appropriate means to handle those kind of situations (which are rare). Giving regular police officers assault rifles is such a strange response.
I always try to compare how police in the US are trained, regulated and investigated to my own country.
Relevant excerpts below. They call a situation where the most extreme form of violence is required "noodweer", which means "severe weather" or "storm".
When can violence be used?
The violence used must always be in proportion to the situation and the crime. This is also referred to as 'proportional and alternative'. During a dangerous situation, the police try to de-escalate. First, the agent uses his voice to demand that the suspect do or not do something. If this fails, he or she will scale up to use weapons; for example pepper spray, the baton or deployment of the police dog. Only at the last moment does the officer take out his firearm. He can fire a warning shot. When there is severe weather, an agent often has no time to de-escalate. He is then authorized to shoot immediately. An officer may also shoot to arrest someone suspected of a serious offense. In those situations, the officer has learned to aim at the suspect's legs. When there is severe weather, the officer may shoot at the suspect's torso.
If an agent is in danger himself or if a suspect threatens another person (life) danger, there is storm and the agent is allowed to shoot.
How is an officer trained?
In the training, officers learn how to handle their weapons. In addition, they attend training a number of times a year and their knowledge is tested twice a year. During the test, it is checked whether the agent is physically fit enough to keep someone under control and whether he is using his weapons correctly. A course on the shooting range is part of the test. Knowledge of the law is also tested using questions and cases.
After a shooting
When an officer has used his weapon and injury has been caused by police fire, an investigation by the National Criminal Investigation Service follows. In all other cases in which violence has been used by the police, a violence report follows and, if necessary, an internal investigation.
The National Criminal Investigation Service is an independent criminal investigation department under the responsibility of the Board of Procurators General of the Public Prosecutor's Office. The independent position allows her to objectively investigate whether the use of firearms was lawful. The officer who shot is heard by the State Investigation Service as soon as possible after the shooting incident. If at the start of the investigation into the incident there are no doubts about the justice of the use of weapons, the agent may continue to perform his duties during the investigation. If those doubts are there, measures can be taken against the agent.
I find it's such a stark contrast to what happens in the US.
I was upset to learn that no such similar independent national agency exists in the US. All the police departments in each city act independently, and are generally responsible for investigating...
When an officer has used his weapon and injury has been caused by police fire, an investigation by the National Criminal Investigation Service follows.
I was upset to learn that no such similar independent national agency exists in the US. All the police departments in each city act independently, and are generally responsible for investigating themselves. Which seems ludicrous.
Agreed. Our police is centralized, but even in a decentralized situation, outside investigations should be a requirement. Ideally by an independent outside organization, but even a different...
Agreed. Our police is centralized, but even in a decentralized situation, outside investigations should be a requirement. Ideally by an independent outside organization, but even a different police department would be an improvement over investigating yourself.
Notwehr exists in a similar meaning in german. Since the languages are closely related, I expected no surprise in your dictionary translation. However: Notwehr in german means something along the...
They call a situation where the most extreme form of violence is required "noodweer", which means "severe weather" or "storm".
Notwehr exists in a similar meaning in german. Since the languages are closely related, I expected no surprise in your dictionary translation. However: Notwehr in german means something along the lines of "emergency defense" or maybe "distress defense". Is that how it's used in a legal sense too? And how did you guys arrive at "severe weather"? Is there not by chance a word for defense in noodweer, possibly weer?
I was actually explaining why Google came up with "severe weather" and "a storm" in its machine translation. Your explanation makes more sense though. "Nood" means "(in) need", "emergency" or...
I was actually explaining why Google came up with "severe weather" and "a storm" in its machine translation. Your explanation makes more sense though.
"Nood" means "(in) need", "emergency" or "distress". "weer" (in this case) means "weather". By combining the words, which happens in both German and Dutch, we get "noodweer". It literally means "severe weather" or "extreme weather". However, it is also used as a legal term.
The legal term describes a situation where extreme distress warrants a criminal offence. It can be used for both police officers and normal citizens.
You've actually gotten me curious, cause that seems very far fetched to german ears. Wehr and Wetter are so very different, I couldn't really imagine that noodweer could originate from Wetter....
You've actually gotten me curious, cause that seems very far fetched to german ears. Wehr and Wetter are so very different, I couldn't really imagine that noodweer could originate from Wetter. Wiktionary lists a bunch of origins, i.e. different words morphing into the same pronunciation. Take your woolen blankets out of your collective mouths, and maybe you can tell your own words apart[1] ;) The article lists brandweer and weerloos as derived words of Etymology 6, "defense". Feuerwehr and Wehrlos[2] are the german analogons. I'd put noodweer on that shelf too. That doesn't mean noodweer can't mean "extreme weather" - who am I to tell you about your language. But with all that in mind, noodweer makes a lot more sense to me as a legal term.
Google translate just doesn't know enough to do better.
[1] I should note here that in some areas in germany, Wetter is spoken as Werrer, with a very... funny sound to the r. Almost sounds like We'er at that point. Not too far off Wehr. But that's just an aside.
[2] - oh, and basically all the terms we use for our armed forces since 1920. Reichswehr, Wehrmacht, Bundeswehr - Imperial/Realm Defense, Defensive Force, Federal Defense. The name probably paid homage to Bürgerwehr - citizen militia originally. Naming the biggest invasion force the world has ever seen for its defensive purpose is quite cynical. And IMO the young federal republic could've done more to get away from the name.
What I meant with "combining words" was in the generic sense, not this specific word. It's a concept that isn't common in English. Anyway, you are correct! There appear to be two separate...
What I meant with "combining words" was in the generic sense, not this specific word. It's a concept that isn't common in English.
Anyway, you are correct! There appear to be two separate etymologies for "noodweer".
Etymology 1
From nood (“emergency”) + weer (“weather”).
extremely bad weather (e.g torrential rainfall)
Etymology 2
From nood (“emergency”) + weer (“defence, resistance”).
See also: Rise of the Warrior Cop: The Militarization of America's Police Forces by Radley Balko. I haven't read it myself, yet, but... just decided to buy it.
I was thinking throughout that video that when you've got a hammer, everything looks like a nail - and then he said it.
But this is fucking scary. Police should not be routinely using military equipment. They don't need this to do their job.
It's interesting that there seemed to be one event (bank robbery in 1997) that lead to police having assault rifles. Officers should be able to call in a "higher power", such as a SWAT team, which has the appropriate means to handle those kind of situations (which are rare). Giving regular police officers assault rifles is such a strange response.
I always try to compare how police in the US are trained, regulated and investigated to my own country.
Here's a translation from the Dutch police's website about how and when firearms may be used and what happens after a weapon is fired.
https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&nv=1&pto=aue&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://www.politie.nl/themas/schietincident.html&usg=ALkJrhg_j0H-mxFOpPUlXZ6sDuXvJRbgkQ
Relevant excerpts below. They call a situation where the most extreme form of violence is required "noodweer", which means "severe weather" or "storm".
When can violence be used?
How is an officer trained?
After a shooting
I find it's such a stark contrast to what happens in the US.
I was upset to learn that no such similar independent national agency exists in the US. All the police departments in each city act independently, and are generally responsible for investigating themselves. Which seems ludicrous.
Agreed. Our police is centralized, but even in a decentralized situation, outside investigations should be a requirement. Ideally by an independent outside organization, but even a different police department would be an improvement over investigating yourself.
Notwehr exists in a similar meaning in german. Since the languages are closely related, I expected no surprise in your dictionary translation. However: Notwehr in german means something along the lines of "emergency defense" or maybe "distress defense". Is that how it's used in a legal sense too? And how did you guys arrive at "severe weather"? Is there not by chance a word for defense in noodweer, possibly weer?
I was actually explaining why Google came up with "severe weather" and "a storm" in its machine translation. Your explanation makes more sense though.
"Nood" means "(in) need", "emergency" or "distress". "weer" (in this case) means "weather". By combining the words, which happens in both German and Dutch, we get "noodweer". It literally means "severe weather" or "extreme weather". However, it is also used as a legal term.
The legal term describes a situation where extreme distress warrants a criminal offence. It can be used for both police officers and normal citizens.
You've actually gotten me curious, cause that seems very far fetched to german ears. Wehr and Wetter are so very different, I couldn't really imagine that noodweer could originate from Wetter. Wiktionary lists a bunch of origins, i.e. different words morphing into the same pronunciation. Take your woolen blankets out of your collective mouths, and maybe you can tell your own words apart[1] ;) The article lists brandweer and weerloos as derived words of Etymology 6, "defense". Feuerwehr and Wehrlos[2] are the german analogons. I'd put noodweer on that shelf too. That doesn't mean noodweer can't mean "extreme weather" - who am I to tell you about your language. But with all that in mind, noodweer makes a lot more sense to me as a legal term.
Google translate just doesn't know enough to do better.
[1] I should note here that in some areas in germany, Wetter is spoken as Werrer, with a very... funny sound to the r. Almost sounds like We'er at that point. Not too far off Wehr. But that's just an aside.
[2] - oh, and basically all the terms we use for our armed forces since 1920. Reichswehr, Wehrmacht, Bundeswehr - Imperial/Realm Defense, Defensive Force, Federal Defense. The name probably paid homage to Bürgerwehr - citizen militia originally. Naming the biggest invasion force the world has ever seen for its defensive purpose is quite cynical. And IMO the young federal republic could've done more to get away from the name.
What I meant with "combining words" was in the generic sense, not this specific word. It's a concept that isn't common in English.
Anyway, you are correct! There appear to be two separate etymologies for "noodweer".
https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/noodweer
I always thought they were of the same origin and that the "defense" meaning was derived from the "extreme weather" meaning, but that's not the case!
Also, "Feuerwehr" is "brandweer" in Dutch and "Wehrlos" "weerloos", so it's very similar!
Thanks for that, I learned something :)
See also: Rise of the Warrior Cop: The Militarization of America's Police Forces by Radley Balko.
I haven't read it myself, yet, but... just decided to buy it.