12 votes

'Freedom’ means something different to liberals and conservatives

6 comments

  1. [6]
    moocow1452
    Link
    This article adds a really neat idea to debates over freedom, in that there are public freedoms, to life and liberty, and private freedom, which is more attuned to the pursuit of happiness, and...

    This article adds a really neat idea to debates over freedom, in that there are public freedoms, to life and liberty, and private freedom, which is more attuned to the pursuit of happiness, and when people talk 'freedom' they often imply one when they meet the other.

    2 votes
    1. [5]
      Thrabalen
      Link Parent
      To me, they are inseparable. If one does not have freedom of life and liberty, one cannot be free to find happiness... but if one cannot be allowed to find happiness, can they truly be said to...

      To me, they are inseparable. If one does not have freedom of life and liberty, one cannot be free to find happiness... but if one cannot be allowed to find happiness, can they truly be said to have life or liberty?

      5 votes
      1. [4]
        moocow1452
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        Yes, but at the same time, there's that whole thing with peace and justice being incompatible with freedom, and if you were to live in a world where everyone was free to punch each other in the...

        Yes, but at the same time, there's that whole thing with peace and justice being incompatible with freedom, and if you were to live in a world where everyone was free to punch each other in the face, someone setting up a punch free ordinance so they could be free to not have to worry about not being punched in the face in their neighborhood would probably be seen as infringement on someone's freedom to punch that guy in the face to even suggest such a thing, so... what do?

        12 votes
        1. [3]
          Thrabalen
          Link Parent
          That's why anarchy is not sustainable. Freedom-- true freedom -- is a balancing act between order and chaos. Otherwise, what about someone's freedom to have their freedom restricted? What you're...

          That's why anarchy is not sustainable. Freedom-- true freedom -- is a balancing act between order and chaos. Otherwise, what about someone's freedom to have their freedom restricted? What you're looking for is the highest values of Life, Liberty, and Happiness with the least restrictions (not with no restrictions.) After all, in a truly free society, we wouldn't even have the concept of ownership.

          4 votes
          1. vord
            Link Parent
            Anarchy is perfectly sustainable. The defining factor of anarchy is not chaos: it is freedom and nonviolence. You can have democratic, representative governments without violence. Freedom ends...

            Anarchy is perfectly sustainable. The defining factor of anarchy is not chaos: it is freedom and nonviolence.

            You can have democratic, representative governments without violence.

            Freedom ends when you oppress someone else's. When you oppress someone else's freedom, you lose rights to your own.

            14 votes
          2. tricolor-energy
            Link Parent
            Humans have lived a very small sliver of our existence in civilization and for a long period of time anarchy ruled. However, a popular belief that pre-civilization was an unsustainable chaotic...

            Humans have lived a very small sliver of our existence in civilization and for a long period of time anarchy ruled. However, a popular belief that pre-civilization was an unsustainable chaotic anarchy might be more myth than truth.

            Humans tend to be cooperative by nature and while culture, society, and modern power structures can distort some of our inbuilt tendencies, we may have thrived while other species did not. Our trusting, friendly disposition might have better allowed the proliferation of knowledge. Other species like Neandertals likely were smarter than Homo Sapiens but did not have the social abilities humans had, and in turn, could not adapt to environmental challenges like we did.

            There is a collection of history, a body of evidence, and stories to tell a different history of humanity in Humankind: A Hopeful History. You may find it worth a look if these ideas were interesting.

            12 votes