14 votes

What do we do with all this rage?

16 comments

  1. [11]
    dubteedub
    Link
    This is a recent substack post by Charlie Warzel discussing the massive amount of rage and resentment building up in this country, particularly towards antivaxxers and those pumping...

    This is a recent substack post by Charlie Warzel discussing the massive amount of rage and resentment building up in this country, particularly towards antivaxxers and those pumping misinformation. This builds a lot on the r/HermanCainAward article on the front page but is a bit more expansive.

    I think Charlie raises some really interesting questions here as far as is the anger towards these antivaxxers justified and is the anger directed towards them helpful in providing harm reduction by convincing reluctant antivaxxers of the horrible reality that awaits them if they don't get the shot? But the real crux of his piece here is to ask where is all this anger going to go?

    I have seen a lot of folks on Twitter, Reddit, and elsewhere lament about how these people are just victims of misinformation, but I simply can not given them the benefit of the doubt. In browsing HCA, time and again, these people are violently racist and bigoted. That is not just a misinformation bubble. In addition, I think focusing on the influence of media takes away the agency of these folks and infantilizes them. I think we have every right to be angry at these individuals, however, while left-leaning folks may be celebrating the deaths of these anti-vaxxers, I don't think that the rage or resentment there is going to build into some mass casualty event against these morons. I know I hold a tremendous amount of contempt for these people and will not shed a single tear for any of their passing, but I'm not going to go out and attack the hicks at my local supermarket who refuse to wear masks.

    I think one thing that is not paid enough attention to is the anger that those on the right have towards literally everyone else. We have seen countless videos over the last 18 months of antivaxxers coughing and spitting on people asking them to calmly wear a mask or socially distance. As this article notes, antivaxxers have been so active in assaulting healthcare workers that many of them now have to wear panic buttons on their employee badges.

    Reactionaries have been steadily growing in violence and attacks over the last several years, but particularly since the start of COVID. These people have been building up since Charlottesville's Unite the Right rally, continuing to enact violence at peaceful protests, invading communities, making plans to kidnap and murder Governors, storming legislatures across the country, and even assaulting the Capital to try and coup the government.

    I do wonder where this violence will end on the right. I don't see a single prominent Republican or reactionary voice trying to dampen the tone of violence or push for vaccines or literally any effort to mitigate the spread of this virus. None of their leaders have an ounce of courage to stand up to these people for fear of losing their votes. I only see the state of this country getting worse. When I think of where all this rage is going to go, I only imagine an increasing amount of violence and terrorism by these folks with no end in sight.

    14 votes
    1. [10]
      vord
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      At this point, the only way I seeing it stop is when the left and center counter with violence of their own. Liberalism enables Facism. It's been shown that non-violent approaches have failed thus...

      I do wonder where this violence will end on the right.

      At this point, the only way I seeing it stop is when the left and center counter with violence of their own. Liberalism enables Facism. It's been shown that non-violent approaches have failed thus far, including the Floyd protests resulting in little police reform despite massive protests. The only places that did result in any tangible changes seemed to be the ones with the most violence.

      “If we see that Germany is winning, we ought to help Russia, and if Russia is winning, we ought to help Germany, and that way let them kill as many as possible, although I don’t want to see Hitler victorious in any circumstances.” - Harry S. Truman, 33rd president of the USA

      That's a weird way of saying "We're prepared to help the Nazis if they are losing to our ideological enemies."

      And on a more personal note, back in the 90s I was a victim of horrendous bullying for about 4 years. No amount of intervention from others stopped the problem. Only when I countered a body slam with a punch of my own did anything get better.

      11 votes
      1. [6]
        nukeman
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        I’m a bit skeptical that the use of violence by the left will result in neofascists being controlled. The street brawls between the communists and the Nazis in late Weimar Germany seemed to push...

        I’m a bit skeptical that the use of violence by the left will result in neofascists being controlled. The street brawls between the communists and the Nazis in late Weimar Germany seemed to push more people into the Nazi’s arms (rather ironically because they promised to “calm the streets”). Additionally, how do you control the escalation of force when used in offensive capabilities? It seems active pursuit would start raising the temperature of civil society in a manner that is very difficult to control.

        I do agree that people opposed to Fascism should learn how to use firearms, and should not show up unarmed to counter armed Nazis.

        8 votes
        1. [4]
          Akir
          Link Parent
          Agreed; the existance of violence at some BLM Rallies have caused people on the right to imagine that most or all BLM rallies are violent and that BLM is directly responsible for all of it. If...

          Agreed; the existance of violence at some BLM Rallies have caused people on the right to imagine that most or all BLM rallies are violent and that BLM is directly responsible for all of it.

          If Antifa were even 1/10th of how violent that the people on the right seem to think they are, we'd probably be in the middle of a new civil war.

          10 votes
          1. vord
            Link Parent
            Projection of self at its finest. The right performed a coup, they're chomping at the bit for a war of some sort. Antifa described as an enemy is basically declaring war against a "No Nazis"...

            If Antifa were even 1/10th of how violent that the people on the right seem to think they are, we'd probably be in the middle of a new civil war.

            Projection of self at its finest. The right performed a coup, they're chomping at the bit for a war of some sort.

            Antifa described as an enemy is basically declaring war against a "No Nazis" philosophy. Something that really shouldn't be a questionable stance.

            6 votes
          2. [2]
            nukeman
            Link Parent
            Not just on the right; many in the center or center left are frustrated with the current amount of violent actions occurring concurrent to protests. I doubt they would be happy or supportive of...

            Not just on the right; many in the center or center left are frustrated with the current amount of violent actions occurring concurrent to protests. I doubt they would be happy or supportive of more violence.

            3 votes
            1. vord
              Link Parent
              True, but what I've seen of the center, the response has largely boiled down to "Blue Lives Matter." The answer to protests is more surveilance and riot gear. They buy into the "rioters/looters"...

              True, but what I've seen of the center, the response has largely boiled down to "Blue Lives Matter." The answer to protests is more surveilance and riot gear.

              They buy into the "rioters/looters" phrasing which tends to automatically segregate the protesters as "others."

              6 votes
        2. hungariantoast
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          This is a stupid and irresponsible simplification of history. Stop spreading misinformation. The NSDAP did not rise in popularity as a result of antifascist opposition, but instead as a result of...

          The street brawls between the communists and the Nazis in late Weimar Germany seemed to push more people into the Nazi’s arms

          This is a stupid and irresponsible simplification of history. Stop spreading misinformation.

          The NSDAP did not rise in popularity as a result of antifascist opposition, but instead as a result of the Berlin police refusing to contain and control fascist paramilitary activity, such as that carried out by the Sturmabteilung.

          The importance of paramilitary activity to the success of the NSDAP is seen most blatantly in the 1932 presidential election, when the Sturmabteilung were prevented from organizing and carrying out paramilitary action during the election period.

          Direct action by antifascists, including violence, has been successful in containing fascists, even in recent history. However, it has only been by the combined cooperation of antifascists and the state, that established fascist organizations have been rooted out and destroyed.

          You need to learn more about this period of history and stop spreading lies that only help fascists. When you discourage antifascist opposition, you also discourage the state from taking fascist activity seriously.

          I recommend Reschke's research on the struggle in the streets of Berlin as a good starting point for learning more about the late-Weimar period of Germany. If you need to translate that PDF, uploading it to Google Drive, opening it in Google Docs, and then going to Tools -> Translate document should get you an easy-to-read translation pretty quickly.

          10 votes
      2. [2]
        Bear
        Link Parent
        That's called civil war. Is that what we somehow need? We need to somehow thoroughly address the dissatisfied fringes of society, those who are ready and willing to use violence, as you detailed....

        At this point, the only way I seeing it stop is when the left and center counter with violence of their own.

        That's called civil war.

        Is that what we somehow need?

        We need to somehow thoroughly address the dissatisfied fringes of society, those who are ready and willing to use violence, as you detailed. Massive, foundational, non-optional changes to education, measures to address extreme income inequality, and a whole lot more.

        If that way leads to the center and the left also employing violence, I don't see how we could call that anything other than Civil War II.

        No war is "good", but some are unavoidable.

        6 votes
        1. vord
          Link Parent
          Need is a strong word. But given the current state of affairs, very likely in one fashion or another. Right-wing violence continues to increase and is often applauded or supported by their...

          Need is a strong word. But given the current state of affairs, very likely in one fashion or another. Right-wing violence continues to increase and is often applauded or supported by their politicians. Let's not forget there was a coup performed in January, and the Republicans opted to not investigate it.

          Massive, foundational, non-optional changes to education, measures to address extreme income inequality, and a whole lot more.

          Remember how the Republican Party argued that it needs voter suppression to win elections? Or the two-faced nature of delaying Obama's Supreme Court justices while pushing through Trump's?

          It's basically impossible to address any of the things you've mentioned when we can't even get routine matters handled.

          If we want what you mentioned, the Democrats need to unify and wipe out all of the regressions the Republican party have implemented in the last 40 years, ASAP. But, you know, we can't have a long-overdue minimum wage increase because Manchin might not win.

          7 votes
      3. NoblePath
        Link Parent
        I worry about violence as a solution, ever, but Ecclesiastes 3 (and also the Byrds) is a thing.

        when the left and center counter with violence of their own

        I worry about violence as a solution, ever, but Ecclesiastes 3 (and also the Byrds) is a thing.

        5 votes
  2. [2]
    eladnarra
    Link
    I was wondering something similar the past few days, after reading that thread about r/HermanCainAward. I don't know if I'm angry or not. On the one hand, I have plenty to be angry about. The...

    I was wondering something similar the past few days, after reading that thread about r/HermanCainAward.

    I don't know if I'm angry or not. On the one hand, I have plenty to be angry about.

    1. The people who yell at me on Twitter to "stay home if you're scared" when I talk about how difficult it is being on the higher end of risk for long-term COVID complications.
    2. The state politicians who banned masking in local schools.
    3. The people who are going on vacations and acting like everything is normal while Delta fills hospitals to the brim.
    4. The medical professionals who I have to ask to pull their mask over their nose (in an obgyn practice with pregnant patients, of all places!).
    5. The people, including well-respected doctors and psychiatrists, who are recycling old falsehoods about my chronic illnesses and applying them to long-COVID - it's just deconditioning, it's just depression, it's a "false illness belief" that they're sick when they're not, post-exertional malaise can be fixed by doing the very thing that makes you sicker (exercising), it doesn't affect kids, it's due to being lazy, it's due to being overly perfectionist, they're just anti-psychiatry and don't want to accept they're mentally ill, it's a white and middle class "disease" stemming from hysteria, etc.

    On the other hand, I'm honestly too anxious and exhausted by it all to be angry. (Strong emotions tend to exhaust me, so that's probably a good thing, in a way.) I think for me, if this all eventually ends somehow, I won't be left with a ton of rage - I'll simply be left unable to trust most people. "Hello helpful medical tech. Were you one of the people who would have endangered me by not masking?" "Hello new coworker. Did you get vaccinated, or did you spread misinformation and help contribute to people's deaths?" "Hello friend I haven't talked to since before the pandemic. Did you think COVID wasn't a big deal because only old or sick people (like me) would die?"

    Basically, I no longer trust that people have a bare minimum of care for others, especially for children. As someone who fell ill and became permanently disabled as a teen, I am horrified by how little regard people have for the long-term health of children. And if other folks feel similarly, I can't imagine what that does to a society. How do you live and work and exist in a society where it feels like a large number of people don't care if you or your loved ones die? Where they tell you that to your face?

    13 votes
    1. mtset
      Link Parent
      Yep, this hits me pretty hard as well. I think that's one reason the phrasing of this article, and of a lot of discourse around this, doesn't resonate with me. I'm not angry, I'm just tired, and...

      The people, including well-respected doctors and psychiatrists, who are recycling old falsehoods about my chronic illnesses and applying them to long-COVID - it's just deconditioning, it's just depression, it's a "false illness belief" that they're sick when they're not, post-exertional malaise can be fixed by doing the very thing that makes you sicker (exercising), it doesn't affect kids, it's due to being lazy, it's due to being overly perfectionist, they're just anti-psychiatry and don't want to accept they're mentally ill, it's a white and middle class "disease" stemming from hysteria, etc.

      Yep, this hits me pretty hard as well. I think that's one reason the phrasing of this article, and of a lot of discourse around this, doesn't resonate with me. I'm not angry, I'm just tired, and I'm not even that much more tired that I have been all of my life. I've always been scared of things that other people think aren't real - it's just that this time more people are scared with me.

      My response is the same, though. I hope each and every one of these people learns definitively that they're wrong. I don't really care how that happens, but it's the only way things will improve.

      10 votes
  3. skybrian
    Link
    I think this article might be more usefully framed as “what should we do to help frontline workers who have to deal directly with anti-vaxers as part of their job?” I don’t know, but I think we...

    I think this article might be more usefully framed as “what should we do to help frontline workers who have to deal directly with anti-vaxers as part of their job?”

    I don’t know, but I think we should start by listening to people in those situations about what would actually work.

    For those of us who fortunately don’t have to deal with it directly, when you read something in the news that makes you angry, you do need techniques to deal with the anger. Personally, I stomp around the house a bit. Maybe other people do other things? i don’t think it’s that big a deal compared to what frontline workers have to put up with.

    7 votes
  4. [2]
    symmetry
    Link
    Ignorance is bliss. I fully understand why frontline workers take to online platform to vent their frustrations and tell their tales. It's also engaging for folks to read and emphasize with them....

    Ignorance is bliss.

    I fully understand why frontline workers take to online platform to vent their frustrations and tell their tales. It's also engaging for folks to read and emphasize with them. However, it's simply not healthy for this anger to get amplified with every post or tweet. The pandora's box has already opened unfortunately.

    3 votes
    1. hamstergeddon
      Link Parent
      I recently ditched facebook and twitter. Thinking about avoiding national news all together. Not knowing what's going on is wonderful. No clickbait titles to piss me off, no "the end is near!"...

      Ignorance is bliss.

      I recently ditched facebook and twitter. Thinking about avoiding national news all together. Not knowing what's going on is wonderful. No clickbait titles to piss me off, no "the end is near!" articles to put me in a sour mood, no political squabbling to drive me up the wall. I just focus on what's going on in my house, in my neighborhood, and my town. Nothing else really matters to me all that much because it's just going to piss me off. If something major happens, I'll find out about it via my wife, parents, brother, or see it elsewhere on the internet.

      It's certainly important to be informed and all that, but I don't know that it's worth it for me personally. Hearing every last detail of every horrible thing Trump did during his presidency surely kept me informed, but it stressed me out for 4 years. And I didn't do anything with that information. I wasn't out there changing the world. I voted, I shared some memes, made some facebook rants. But aside from the voting, being informed didn't improve anything. Now you could say that there's a happy medium in there somewhere. Read a little bit of news and don't fall into doom-scrolling. But I can't. I tried and failed multiple times. It's all or nothing for me and "nothing" is preferable right now.

      10 votes