I don't know how many of you guys watch or care about the MCU but this article says something I agree with. I think what made the MCU work in those first three phases were it's simplicity. It was...
I don't know how many of you guys watch or care about the MCU but this article says something I agree with.
Compare all of that to how the MCU marshaled the Infinity Saga: By the sixth movie, 2012’s “The Avengers,” we’d met Thanos. By the tenth, 2014’s “Guardians of the Galaxy,” we first heard the words “Infinity Stones” and understood fully that Thanos was bent on collecting all six of them. Every subsequent film inched that larger story forward in small or major ways, as we realized at least some of the Infinity Stones had been hiding in plain sight starting with 2011’s “Captain America: The First Avenger.” Each Phase culminated with an “Avengers” movie (or two), and each MCU film, while an experience (more or less) onto itself, had a cogent sense of forward momentum and overall narrative purpose. Thanos wants those stones, which would be cataclysmically bad — our heroes are going to have to stop him.
Eleven titles into Phase Four, there are several potential Big Bads — Kang, Valentina, Arishem, Kingpin, even the Dark Dimension’s overlord Dormammu — lurking in the periphery. But Marvel Studios has yet to let on whether there even is a grand design to tie all of these strands together.
That could be a feature, not a bug. With the explosion of MCU content on Disney+, there may be simply too many titles to hold together into one consolidated storyline, so Marvel isn’t going to try.
I think what made the MCU work in those first three phases were it's simplicity. It was simple storytelling and worldbuilding and casual fans, like myself, could just sit back and have a good time. But now a lot of stuff feels like homework. It feels too big, it's too much. And what's crazy is that content for the MCU from the past year and a half includes: WandaVision, Falcon and the Winter Soldier, Black Widow, Loki, What If, Shang-Chi, Eternals, Hawkeye, Moon Knight, Doctor Strange 2, we have Thor in two months and Black Panther later this year. Compare that to the other phases and it's sensory overload.
My husband is on the bandwagon on this one and I am finding myself badgered to the point where I may become violent. Im fine with movies building towards bigger events and narratives, but the...
My husband is on the bandwagon on this one and I am finding myself badgered to the point where I may become violent. Im fine with movies building towards bigger events and narratives, but the latest stuff just seems to point out “hey remember these guys?” And they never actually finish anything. Each new series just leaves a whole bunch of unanswered questions and it honestly doesn’t seem like it’s building up to anything.
I guess it's a super hero comics thing. If you've read a lot of super hero comics, you're kinda used to these motions. Each main character has its own magazine, they often show up at each other's...
I guess it's a super hero comics thing.
If you've read a lot of super hero comics, you're kinda used to these motions. Each main character has its own magazine, they often show up at each other's stories, and every once in a while there's a mega event that leaves a mark in the entire universe.
After that, we follow the ripple effects on each core, those stories are more weakly related, there's more space for specifics, random wackiness, and character development.
Some time later (often 1 year or more), the breadcrumbs start pointing to a common direction, another universe shattering event takes place and the cycle continues.
Super hero comics fans generally enjoy all parts of the cycle, the temporary lack of a major unifying plot is not really an issue.
And yeah a bunch of questions remain unanswered, the universes are large enough that doing so would get boring really fast. Besides, such universes are not great at internal consistency, and it's often best to leave certain areas undetermined, otherwise the logical inconsistencies might lead to the universe's implosion. One might say that some fictional worlds are inherently paraconsistent.
Fans are keen to create their own theories to fill the gaps. For many, obsessing over such details is a great part of why they enjoy comic books in the first place. The gaps in their knowledge can be frustrating and stimulating at the same time.
And you can't really follow a megaplot with another megaplot, megaplot fatigue is a thing...
I quite enjoy self-contained stories that don't really contribute much to the overall state of the universe.
Supposedly the whole plan is building up to Secret Wars. I don’t read comics so I don’t really know what that means, but I guess it’s supposed to be the huge in scale, much bigger than Endgame....
Supposedly the whole plan is building up to Secret Wars. I don’t read comics so I don’t really know what that means, but I guess it’s supposed to be the huge in scale, much bigger than Endgame.
You ask me though, I think they’re just scrambling around until they figure out something concrete.
Infinity War and Endgame were about the fate of the universe and reality itself. Secret Wars is more like a battle royale in which heroes and villains must fight under rules set by a sadic cosmic...
but I guess it’s supposed to be the huge in scale, much bigger than Endgame.
Infinity War and Endgame were about the fate of the universe and reality itself. Secret Wars is more like a battle royale in which heroes and villains must fight under rules set by a sadic cosmic being called The Beyonder.
Unless they change a lot about the plot, the stakes are, by definition, much lower than with Thanos.
It's hard to top the power of the infinity stones.
I can see the Mortal Kombat-esque "Fight or your dimension gets conquered" premise working its way up there. With the multiverse present and active, it could be fun to watch Moon Knight fight...
I can see the Mortal Kombat-esque "Fight or your dimension gets conquered" premise working its way up there.
With the multiverse present and active, it could be fun to watch Moon Knight fight another dimension's Thor.
Absolutely, super hero fiction is extremely flexible and creators can most certainly manage to escalate the Secret Wars storyline to a multiverse scale. However, that would require a lot of...
Absolutely, super hero fiction is extremely flexible and creators can most certainly manage to escalate the Secret Wars storyline to a multiverse scale. However, that would require a lot of fundamental changes.
Personally, I think they should lay off the multiverse angle for a while.
Basically, it would be hard to establish a villain more terrifying than Thanos, because the infinity stones gave him unhindered control of reality itself. How can you top that? The infinity...
Basically, it would be hard to establish a villain more terrifying than Thanos, because the infinity stones gave him unhindered control of reality itself. How can you top that? The infinity gauntlet knows no bounds.
More specifically to the Secret Wars, I honestly don't think it is a great storyline to adapt (not that it will be necessarily bad, just seems like an odd choice). It was great fun for an 80s comic! I loved seeing totally unrelated characters being forced to work together, especially some odd alliances between heroes and villains. Is Dr. Doom helping humankind? Hell yeah! That was mind-bending to younger me.
Doom is one of the most interesting villains there is. You can approach matters of identity, since he constantly doesn't know if he is a robot, a clone, or the real Dr. Doom. He's got issues with...
Doom is one of the most interesting villains there is. You can approach matters of identity, since he constantly doesn't know if he is a robot, a clone, or the real Dr. Doom. He's got issues with self image, everyone thinks he's a monster behind the mask but in reality he's actually quite handsome. There's the whole theme of the benevolent dictator, a legitimately well-meaning individual that wants the best for his people, even if he needs to strip them of all liberties in order to "improve" society. The profound arrogance of a self-proclaimed monarch, for whom democracy is a threat to the greater good.
There's clearly potential for handling complex characters in the recent screen Marvel works. Vincent D'Onofrio as Wilson Fisk comes to mind. A surprising richness for a character who's so easy to...
There's clearly potential for handling complex characters in the recent screen Marvel works. Vincent D'Onofrio as Wilson Fisk comes to mind. A surprising richness for a character who's so easy to reduce to a bumbling fat giant. Then there's Tony Leung's Wenwu, the "real Mandarin": handled with surprising grace and depth for what could've very easily been a two-dimensional, racist cut-out of a character.
I would be stoked to find out that Dr. Doom has been handled with the same attention and care in the MCU.
Absolutely. I'm not sure if Fisk was ever taken seriously in the comics, but the sublime 1987 graphic novel Lex Luthor: The Unauthorized Biography could have easily been about Fisk instead. If I'm...
Absolutely.
I'm not sure if Fisk was ever taken seriously in the comics, but the sublime 1987 graphic novel Lex Luthor: The Unauthorized Biography could have easily been about Fisk instead.
If I'm not mistaken, Fisk got some decent character development in Frank Miller's Daredevil miniseries (1993).
I've enthusiastically watched everything released in the MCU from day one... Up until Eternals that is. I couldn't get into it for the life of me. It was overly long and the characters felt...
I've enthusiastically watched everything released in the MCU from day one... Up until Eternals that is. I couldn't get into it for the life of me. It was overly long and the characters felt generic so I can definitely relate to you comparing some of this content to homework.
I've brushed off people who've been talking about the MCU becoming oversaturated in the past but now that we're several Disney+ series deep I think we've finally reached the point where that discussion is warranted.
It's a personal thing obviously. As a casual fan I enjoyed the lead up to what I think of as the peak. Daredevil, Punisher, Agents of Shield etc. on TV and those loosely tying in with the movies...
the MCU becoming oversaturated
It's a personal thing obviously. As a casual fan I enjoyed the lead up to what I think of as the peak. Daredevil, Punisher, Agents of Shield etc. on TV and those loosely tying in with the movies leading up to the climax of Phase 3.
Since that none of the new shows have sparked much interest. It feels like a TV show factory. The movies have left me even colder.
For me it's so oversaturated it's hard to care about any of it any more. I don't know what's worth paying attention to and what isn't.
I think I'll just pick the occasional movie that looks interesting to me and ditch the shows altogether.
I think the passing of Chadwick Boseman derailed a lot of the plans that they had for phase four. He was supposed to replace RDJ as the lead face of the MCU.
I think the passing of Chadwick Boseman derailed a lot of the plans that they had for phase four. He was supposed to replace RDJ as the lead face of the MCU.
I don't know how many of you guys watch or care about the MCU but this article says something I agree with.
I think what made the MCU work in those first three phases were it's simplicity. It was simple storytelling and worldbuilding and casual fans, like myself, could just sit back and have a good time. But now a lot of stuff feels like homework. It feels too big, it's too much. And what's crazy is that content for the MCU from the past year and a half includes: WandaVision, Falcon and the Winter Soldier, Black Widow, Loki, What If, Shang-Chi, Eternals, Hawkeye, Moon Knight, Doctor Strange 2, we have Thor in two months and Black Panther later this year. Compare that to the other phases and it's sensory overload.
My husband is on the bandwagon on this one and I am finding myself badgered to the point where I may become violent. Im fine with movies building towards bigger events and narratives, but the latest stuff just seems to point out “hey remember these guys?” And they never actually finish anything. Each new series just leaves a whole bunch of unanswered questions and it honestly doesn’t seem like it’s building up to anything.
I guess it's a super hero comics thing.
If you've read a lot of super hero comics, you're kinda used to these motions. Each main character has its own magazine, they often show up at each other's stories, and every once in a while there's a mega event that leaves a mark in the entire universe.
After that, we follow the ripple effects on each core, those stories are more weakly related, there's more space for specifics, random wackiness, and character development.
Some time later (often 1 year or more), the breadcrumbs start pointing to a common direction, another universe shattering event takes place and the cycle continues.
Super hero comics fans generally enjoy all parts of the cycle, the temporary lack of a major unifying plot is not really an issue.
And yeah a bunch of questions remain unanswered, the universes are large enough that doing so would get boring really fast. Besides, such universes are not great at internal consistency, and it's often best to leave certain areas undetermined, otherwise the logical inconsistencies might lead to the universe's implosion. One might say that some fictional worlds are inherently paraconsistent.
Fans are keen to create their own theories to fill the gaps. For many, obsessing over such details is a great part of why they enjoy comic books in the first place. The gaps in their knowledge can be frustrating and stimulating at the same time.
And you can't really follow a megaplot with another megaplot, megaplot fatigue is a thing...
I quite enjoy self-contained stories that don't really contribute much to the overall state of the universe.
Supposedly the whole plan is building up to Secret Wars. I don’t read comics so I don’t really know what that means, but I guess it’s supposed to be the huge in scale, much bigger than Endgame.
You ask me though, I think they’re just scrambling around until they figure out something concrete.
Infinity War and Endgame were about the fate of the universe and reality itself. Secret Wars is more like a battle royale in which heroes and villains must fight under rules set by a sadic cosmic being called The Beyonder.
Unless they change a lot about the plot, the stakes are, by definition, much lower than with Thanos.
It's hard to top the power of the infinity stones.
I can see the Mortal Kombat-esque "Fight or your dimension gets conquered" premise working its way up there.
With the multiverse present and active, it could be fun to watch Moon Knight fight another dimension's Thor.
Absolutely, super hero fiction is extremely flexible and creators can most certainly manage to escalate the Secret Wars storyline to a multiverse scale. However, that would require a lot of fundamental changes.
Personally, I think they should lay off the multiverse angle for a while.
What do you see that needs changing for it to work?
The best I can say here is "well, I'm sure they'll think of something".
Basically, it would be hard to establish a villain more terrifying than Thanos, because the infinity stones gave him unhindered control of reality itself. How can you top that? The infinity gauntlet knows no bounds.
More specifically to the Secret Wars, I honestly don't think it is a great storyline to adapt (not that it will be necessarily bad, just seems like an odd choice). It was great fun for an 80s comic! I loved seeing totally unrelated characters being forced to work together, especially some odd alliances between heroes and villains. Is Dr. Doom helping humankind? Hell yeah! That was mind-bending to younger me.
I would love to see MCU's take on Doctor Doom, after what they did with the Vulture.
Doom is one of the most interesting villains there is. You can approach matters of identity, since he constantly doesn't know if he is a robot, a clone, or the real Dr. Doom. He's got issues with self image, everyone thinks he's a monster behind the mask but in reality he's actually quite handsome. There's the whole theme of the benevolent dictator, a legitimately well-meaning individual that wants the best for his people, even if he needs to strip them of all liberties in order to "improve" society. The profound arrogance of a self-proclaimed monarch, for whom democracy is a threat to the greater good.
Such a rich character.
There's clearly potential for handling complex characters in the recent screen Marvel works. Vincent D'Onofrio as Wilson Fisk comes to mind. A surprising richness for a character who's so easy to reduce to a bumbling fat giant. Then there's Tony Leung's Wenwu, the "real Mandarin": handled with surprising grace and depth for what could've very easily been a two-dimensional, racist cut-out of a character.
I would be stoked to find out that Dr. Doom has been handled with the same attention and care in the MCU.
Absolutely.
I'm not sure if Fisk was ever taken seriously in the comics, but the sublime 1987 graphic novel Lex Luthor: The Unauthorized Biography could have easily been about Fisk instead.
If I'm not mistaken, Fisk got some decent character development in Frank Miller's Daredevil miniseries (1993).
I've enthusiastically watched everything released in the MCU from day one... Up until Eternals that is. I couldn't get into it for the life of me. It was overly long and the characters felt generic so I can definitely relate to you comparing some of this content to homework.
I've brushed off people who've been talking about the MCU becoming oversaturated in the past but now that we're several Disney+ series deep I think we've finally reached the point where that discussion is warranted.
It's a personal thing obviously. As a casual fan I enjoyed the lead up to what I think of as the peak. Daredevil, Punisher, Agents of Shield etc. on TV and those loosely tying in with the movies leading up to the climax of Phase 3.
Since that none of the new shows have sparked much interest. It feels like a TV show factory. The movies have left me even colder.
For me it's so oversaturated it's hard to care about any of it any more. I don't know what's worth paying attention to and what isn't.
I think I'll just pick the occasional movie that looks interesting to me and ditch the shows altogether.
I think the passing of Chadwick Boseman derailed a lot of the plans that they had for phase four. He was supposed to replace RDJ as the lead face of the MCU.
Oh that would be awesome 😭