20 votes

Disney animation shake-up: Jennifer Lee exiting as Chief Creative Officer, Jared Bush takes over

24 comments

  1. [16]
    cloud_loud
    Link
    While the story is that she’s stepping down to focus on Frozen 3 and 4, I think the reality is she’s being pushed out. The back to back disasters of Strange World and Wish probably sealed her...

    While the story is that she’s stepping down to focus on Frozen 3 and 4, I think the reality is she’s being pushed out. The back to back disasters of Strange World and Wish probably sealed her replacement (Wish especially since it was meant to celebrate Disney’s 100th anniversary but was poorly received due to many poor decisions namely the hiring of an inexperienced songwriter). Replacing her is the Director of Encanto.

    Kind of makes you wonder why Kennedy has stayed as Lucasfilm’s so long despite also having a shoddy record.

    19 votes
    1. [13]
      updawg
      Link Parent
      I think Kathleen Kennedy has the support of Disney because she is George Lucas's designated heir, she's been working with Steven Spielberg since 1982, and they think the fans are idiots for not...

      I think Kathleen Kennedy has the support of Disney because she is George Lucas's designated heir, she's been working with Steven Spielberg since 1982, and they think the fans are idiots for not liking The Last Jedi. I really do think they believe that last bit.

      I personally like the movie, but I think they really support Rian Johnson and his vision, but they're stupid execs so they do it in idiotic ways.

      I do think there has been plenty of crap under Kennedy, (TRoS, all of the Mandalorian, etc), but the Mandalorian is super popular so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

      off-topic edit: @deimos, did you add a custom exception for text rendering to make the shrugging emoticon function with only one backslash or is that just a difference from how reddit renders text? I suppose I'll add @cfabbro because I feel like you know a lot about the code site of this site too?

      11 votes
      1. [2]
        Deimos
        Link Parent
        There is custom handling (one line of code) for the shrug, because it always annoyed me: https://gitlab.com/tildes/tildes/-/blob/master/tildes/tildes/lib/markdown.py?ref_type=heads#L165-L166

        There is custom handling (one line of code) for the shrug, because it always annoyed me: https://gitlab.com/tildes/tildes/-/blob/master/tildes/tildes/lib/markdown.py?ref_type=heads#L165-L166

        20 votes
        1. DefinitelyNotAFae
          Link Parent
          I appreciate you for this ¯\_ʘ‿ʘ_/¯

          I appreciate you for this
          ¯⁠\⁠_⁠ʘ⁠‿⁠ʘ⁠_⁠/⁠¯

          7 votes
      2. [5]
        babypuncher
        Link Parent
        The toxic reaction to The Last Jedi is ridiculous. It's the only movie in the sequel trilogy that did anything new or interesting with the property. The Force Awakens was just a lazy rehash and...

        The toxic reaction to The Last Jedi is ridiculous. It's the only movie in the sequel trilogy that did anything new or interesting with the property. The Force Awakens was just a lazy rehash and Rise of Skywalker is an actually bad movie.

        18 votes
        1. [3]
          El_Capitan
          Link Parent
          I agree with everything you've said, but regardless of how good the film itself may or may not be, it was a terrible sequel to The Force Awakens.

          I agree with everything you've said, but regardless of how good the film itself may or may not be, it was a terrible sequel to The Force Awakens.

          10 votes
          1. [2]
            babypuncher
            (edited )
            Link Parent
            I think The Force Awakens set up the entire sequel trilogy to fail. There is no way to write a compelling followup to it because JJ Abrams never had one in mind when he was putting together his...

            I think The Force Awakens set up the entire sequel trilogy to fail. There is no way to write a compelling followup to it because JJ Abrams never had one in mind when he was putting together his poorly thought out mystery boxes.

            This is why Rian Johnson felt the need to jettison them in The Last Jedi. Making Rey a nobody is far more compelling to me than tying her up in the existing Star Wars family tree. There are probably trillions of people in the galaxy, what are the odds that everyone involved in its fate are somehow related?

            4 votes
            1. cloud_loud
              Link Parent
              Part of the issue was they decided to develop the sequel trilogy like how the original trilogy was developed, which was “without a plan.” The issue was that the sequel trilogy still had someone...

              Part of the issue was they decided to develop the sequel trilogy like how the original trilogy was developed, which was “without a plan.” The issue was that the sequel trilogy still had someone overlooking everything for the most part, they didn’t have anyone like that for this. Michael Ardnt (Academy Award winning screenwriter for Little Miss Sunshine) was originally hired to be that person but as I recall he couldn’t please the execs. Some of his ideas remained, he basically came up with the character of Rey, but I think the trilogy missed out on that.

              Episode VII was actually originally supposed to be Brad Bird directing Ardnt’s script, I already explained what happened with Ardnt, but Bird had to drop out due to being busy on Tomorrowland (he suggested Colin Trevorrow should work on Episode VII’s pre production while he finished Tomorrowland but Disney didn’t like that). So there’s a universe somewhere with an Epsiode VII delivered by better creatives.

        2. updawg
          Link Parent
          According to /r/SaltierThanKrayt, the fan score proves that the critics were wrong and TLJ sucks, and the critics score proves the fans wrong and TRoS sucks. But the secret is the critics were...

          According to /r/SaltierThanKrayt, the fan score proves that the critics were wrong and TLJ sucks, and the critics score proves the fans wrong and TRoS sucks. But the secret is the critics were always right. Unlike when the critics put out the hit on Gotti.

          6 votes
      3. [5]
        conception
        Link Parent
        Remember that there was a coordinated “probably test” to sway public opinion to create dissent in America by Russia....

        Remember that there was a coordinated “probably test” to sway public opinion to create dissent in America by Russia.

        https://www.indiewire.com/features/general/star-wars-last-jedi-backlash-study-russian-trolls-rian-johnson-1202008645/

        5 votes
        1. [4]
          updawg
          Link Parent
          "Probably test?"

          "Probably test?"

          2 votes
          1. [3]
            conception
            Link Parent
            That’s me guessing they were testing things for political topics, seeing how things are best swayed? But also maybe just chaos, hurt a big cultural release.

            That’s me guessing they were testing things for political topics, seeing how things are best swayed? But also maybe just chaos, hurt a big cultural release.

            2 votes
            1. TumblingTurquoise
              Link Parent
              It's pretty clear cut if you ask me. Dissent of any kind seems to be the goal for these efforts.

              Bay writes, “The likely objective of these measures is increasing media coverage of the fandom conflict, thereby adding to and further propagating a narrative of widespread discord and dysfunction in American society. Persuading voters of this narrative remains a strategic goal for the U.S. alt-right movement, as well as the Russian Federation.”

              It's pretty clear cut if you ask me. Dissent of any kind seems to be the goal for these efforts.

              3 votes
            2. updawg
              Link Parent
              So "there was probably a coordinated test?"

              So "there was probably a coordinated test?"

              1 vote
    2. [2]
      Perryapsis
      Link Parent
      I'm out of the loop; could you please give me the TL;DR?

      The back to back disasters of Strange World and Wish

      I'm out of the loop; could you please give me the TL;DR?

      2 votes
      1. Foreigner
        Link Parent
        Both of those movies bombed at the box office.

        Both of those movies bombed at the box office.

        5 votes
  2. [8]
    chocobean
    Link
    That is an impressive number of human hours spent Surprising to me, considering how bad the screenwriting for Wish was, surprisingly even worse than the awkward first draft music or the many...

    Moana, which surpassed 1 billion hours viewed on Disney+ earlier this year

    That is an impressive number of human hours spent

    Lee is the Oscar-winning screenwriter and director behind Frozen

    Surprising to me, considering how bad the screenwriting for Wish was, surprisingly even worse than the awkward first draft music or the many scenes of "forgot to draw background art" or "let's copy paste like it's Clip Art 1995.

    The screenwriting was poor even for a paint by number production: the Princess's wish is "for more"; villain motivation only hinted at, weirdly omitting even a lazy third act flashback; the bizzare choice of two cutesy sidekicks with not even one pithy line between them; an idyllic country of supposedly content citizenry turns into a fully mobilized revolution force overnight...etc

    I honestly, not sarcastically, thought the script was written by ChatGPT, that their plan was to unveil and hail a new era of not using human writers, should this film have succeeded.

    It's got that way of bringing in a hint of recognisable bits jammed in awkwardly, the slight repetitions that don't build up, the little jumps between the first and last thing it said....

    11 votes
    1. [4]
      CptBluebear
      Link Parent
      When halfway through a Disney film you empathize more with the villain you know something is off. They had to juice him up with yes-he's-evil-sauce to actually be a villain and even then only his...

      When halfway through a Disney film you empathize more with the villain you know something is off. They had to juice him up with yes-he's-evil-sauce to actually be a villain and even then only his methods were evil.

      9 votes
      1. chocobean
        Link Parent
        It would have been a good idea: two people who love similar things and saw eye to eye initially, one haunted by memories holding onto hurt and suspicion, while another one chooses light and to...

        It would have been a good idea: two people who love similar things and saw eye to eye initially, one haunted by memories holding onto hurt and suspicion, while another one chooses light and to move forward. It's an idea that can be done so well, see MCU Civil War. No one is right or wrong, it's about finding balance between reining in youthful optimism, and being careful/learning from past mistakes/moving on from trauma.

        But yeah ChatGPT style writing half way decided to switch to generic evil guy with green flames and one up one down eyebrow. Wasn't even a fun villain since PTSD isn't funny to watch.

        5 votes
      2. [2]
        CannibalisticApple
        Link Parent
        I remember one amusing review pointed out that he kinda had a point about it being a bad idea to grant ALL the wishes, and kept hammering that point in for the rest of the video.

        I remember one amusing review pointed out that he kinda had a point about it being a bad idea to grant ALL the wishes, and kept hammering that point in for the rest of the video.

        4 votes
        1. CptBluebear
          Link Parent
          And he was right! There's this super powerful wizard that wants to make a peaceful, prosperous nation with a happy populace and has the idea of using his magic to make that happen. And in order...

          And he was right!

          There's this super powerful wizard that wants to make a peaceful, prosperous nation with a happy populace and has the idea of using his magic to make that happen. And in order for it not to spiral out of control, he gives them one wish in exchange for one thing.

          He then creates an actual peaceful, prosperous nation with a happy populace and never forces anyone to take his deal. He doesn't do it to create subservient people, he doesn't do it maliciously, he doesn't do it with any other ulterior motives. He tells you what you can get and what you have to do for it and you can accept that freely and reject it without repercussion.

          How is this guy evil again? At best you can disagree with his approach. At best! But never does he purposefully do anything to the detriment of the people until he literally gets corrupted by an evil spirit.

          I'd vote for him. I mean he's a king, but still!

          9 votes
    2. [2]
      Akir
      Link Parent
      Wish was kind of an interesting film because it’s so bad, though. But only to film students and overthinkers like me. Criticising the writing and music is fine, but I think the main problem with...

      Wish was kind of an interesting film because it’s so bad, though. But only to film students and overthinkers like me.

      Criticising the writing and music is fine, but I think the main problem with the story is the lack of a compelling core message. The film doesn’t seem to entirely know what that core message is at times, instead focusing on reinforcing a number of related themes; it’s important to have a wish, it’s important to fulfill your wishes, it’s important to work towards your wish, you wish doesn’t have to be realistically achieveable, etc. And so the concept that wishes can be taken away and somehow ruin your life is something that doesn’t make logical sense. You have to give up your wish after a while, but then why is it important to have your wish granted? If you have lost your wish, how is it fulfilling if it is granted if you never knew you wanted it to begin with? And what exactly makes the difference between a wish and simple desire?

      These are major problems with the plot, which is the core of the movie experience, so no matter how much effort they put into the production - and it is an impressive production - it couldn’t fix the fundamental problems with the concept. If they went ahead to celebrate Disney’s 100 years of animation, it was a bad idea to start with. It’s so ironic that Disney produced a short for the same thing that did what Wish was trying to do in such a simple way, and it was dramatically more enjoyable.

      But frankly, after seeing that documentary on the development of Frozen 2 and how they develop their stories it doesn’t seem like their process is too conductive to coming up with good bones for stories. If I think back to the most memorable Disney movies, it strikes me that almost all of them are adaptations of existing stories. The only major successful movie I can think of off the top of my head not explicitly based on an existing story is The Lion King, and even that one was heavily inspired by Hamlet.

      7 votes
      1. sparksbet
        Link Parent
        I think you have some nostalgia bias when it comes to which animated movies you consider truly memorable. There are definitely memorable Disney animated films that aren't adaptations, and even...

        I think you have some nostalgia bias when it comes to which animated movies you consider truly memorable. There are definitely memorable Disney animated films that aren't adaptations, and even those that are adaptations are extremely loose adaptations. And, of course, Pixar's work, which contains pretty much no adaptations whatsoever, indicates that it's more than possible to create high quality animated films that aren't adaptations, so it's worth investigating what Disney animation is doing differently than their cousin here.

        5 votes
    3. CannibalisticApple
      Link Parent
      What's really bad about Wish is that the concept art is way more interesting than the final film. The star was supposed to transform into a magical boy, which already has a lot more story...

      What's really bad about Wish is that the concept art is way more interesting than the final film.

      The star was supposed to transform into a magical boy, which already has a lot more story potential. According to the art book he'd be a mute mime character, and there were hints of him and Asha having a romance, which is classic Disney. The queen was also supposed to be evil (another classic Disney trope) along with her husband, making the first villainous Disney couple.

      Just those two factors would change the story a LOT. We could have had a magical hero couple versus the evil tyrant couple. It actually had a REALLY good foundation for something cool and interesting that would appeal to all ages.

      And instead, we got... The bland snoozefest of Wish that was very clearly overproduced to try to appeal to mass audiences rather than tell a story.

      5 votes