...star trek II was a fine film, so was star trek IV; horses-for-courses i think it's a toss-up which of those two was the best film of the franchise... ...that said, i'll go against the grain and...
...star trek II was a fine film, so was star trek IV; horses-for-courses i think it's a toss-up which of those two was the best film of the franchise...
...that said, i'll go against the grain and argue that neither were the best star trek film, which is to say that they were both fine films but neither captured the essence of what star trek is about; for that i'll point to I, III, and V as examples of proper star trek episodes given cinematic treatment, and even nod an honorable mention toward insurrection as a weaker episode, but a proper episode nonetheless...
...of those, i'd probably call III the best star trek movie and tie I and V for second place depending upon which flavor of cerebral versus fun episode best suits my mood, but i could easily be convinced to flip those and land III in second place instead...
...the undiscovered country and generations both suffer for their industrial production showing through the finished product, a problem which would continue to grow more prominent until the franchise collapsed under it own weight with nemesis (and voyager)...
(first contact, among other sins, ruined the strongest original science-fiction idea introduced in the next generation and on that basis doesn't deserve a place at the table)
By this do you mean the introduction of the Queen as a concept? I agree, the very same narrative goal that I think she serves (personifying the Borg and making them more relatable for the...
(first contact, among other sins, ruined the strongest original idea introduced in the next generation and on that basis doesn't deserve a place at the table)
By this do you mean the introduction of the Queen as a concept? I agree, the very same narrative goal that I think she serves (personifying the Borg and making them more relatable for the audience) also serves to dilute what fundamentally makes the Borg a scary enemy. They *aren't * relatable, you can't understand them.
First Contact is a great action movie. It's a mediocre Star Trek movie. I do love it though. But I will never forgive it for giving us the concept of the Queen, which Voyager then ran with, and made the most dangerous enemy the Federation had into an easily manipulatable egotistical enemy.
...yes, the fundamental terror of the borg is the inevitability of post-singularity dehumanisation; to use a mass effect analogy, best of both worlds borg : first contact borg :: sovereign reapers...
...yes, the fundamental terror of the borg is the inevitability of post-singularity dehumanisation; to use a mass effect analogy, best of both worlds borg : first contact borg :: sovereign reapers : harbringer reapers...
Must say it is great to see a Star Trek fan that has opinions that goes against the usual favorites. I also have a bit of a conflicted relationship with the movies, as there aren't many of them I...
Must say it is great to see a Star Trek fan that has opinions that goes against the usual favorites. I also have a bit of a conflicted relationship with the movies, as there aren't many of them I find truly Trek. I understand that First Contact is among the favorites of many as it is the most Hollywood cinematic, but it is low on my list. I usually put The Undiscovered Country, The Motion Picture or Insurrection at the top. Especially the last two feels most like double episodes, which is a good thing in my book. But I can totally get behind III and V for being among the best "hang out" films with the original crew. They have some of the best character moments at least.
What do you think of the Undiscovered Country? That one is rather my favorite, though obviously it shares a great deal in common with Wrath of Khan via the director. It also has the advantage of...
What do you think of the Undiscovered Country? That one is rather my favorite, though obviously it shares a great deal in common with Wrath of Khan via the director. It also has the advantage of allowing Spock to be the captain for much of the movie which highlights how funny and good of a leader he can be (When written by Nicholas Meyer, of course.)
My third favorite of all of the Star Trek movies. I liked that they portrayed smart Klingons for a change. Otherwise it is kind of hard to believe that the Klingons mastered interstellar travel...
My third favorite of all of the Star Trek movies.
I liked that they portrayed smart Klingons for a change. Otherwise it is kind of hard to believe that the Klingons mastered interstellar travel with the kind of people the Klingons in military were.
So, like, at some point, presumably on Qo'noS, some very motivated Klingons with bat’leth beat back some very unfortunate invaders with their disrupters and it was all warp drives and sloppy table...
So, like, at some point, presumably on Qo'noS, some very motivated Klingons with bat’leth beat back some very unfortunate invaders with their disrupters and it was all warp drives and sloppy table meat parties from there on out? Sure! Why not. More plausible than the last season of Picard.
No, of course not. There are most certainly capable engineers and scientists among the Klingons. However, they don't strike me as a civilization that allocates lots of resources to basic research....
No, of course not. There are most certainly capable engineers and scientists among the Klingons. However, they don't strike me as a civilization that allocates lots of resources to basic research. Perhaps the technologies they acquired from other species compensated for that. They then perfected and developed those "acquisitions" for their own applications.
It is not an either-or situation. Of course, Klingons do some science and engineering. But I don't imagine they're actively researching the origin of the universe or the theory of everything. They are eminently practical.
They're not the guys who invent iPhones. They're the ones who figure out how to make it into the deadliest phaser ever.
...the undiscovered country would have been a far stronger film had it not shoehorned in nicholas meyer's son-of-khan screenplay, phoned-in production choices, and of course kept saavik's...
...the undiscovered country would have been a far stronger film had it not shoehorned in nicholas meyer's son-of-khan screenplay, phoned-in production choices, and of course kept saavik's character arc intact...
To this day I firmly believe that this and First Contact were the best of all of the Star Trek movies.
...star trek II was a fine film, so was star trek IV; horses-for-courses i think it's a toss-up which of those two was the best film of the franchise...
...that said, i'll go against the grain and argue that neither were the best star trek film, which is to say that they were both fine films but neither captured the essence of what star trek is about; for that i'll point to I, III, and V as examples of proper star trek episodes given cinematic treatment, and even nod an honorable mention toward insurrection as a weaker episode, but a proper episode nonetheless...
...of those, i'd probably call III the best star trek movie and tie I and V for second place depending upon which flavor of cerebral versus fun episode best suits my mood, but i could easily be convinced to flip those and land III in second place instead...
...the undiscovered country and generations both suffer for their industrial production showing through the finished product, a problem which would continue to grow more prominent until the franchise collapsed under it own weight with nemesis (and voyager)...
(first contact, among other sins, ruined the strongest original science-fiction idea introduced in the next generation and on that basis doesn't deserve a place at the table)
By this do you mean the introduction of the Queen as a concept? I agree, the very same narrative goal that I think she serves (personifying the Borg and making them more relatable for the audience) also serves to dilute what fundamentally makes the Borg a scary enemy. They *aren't * relatable, you can't understand them.
First Contact is a great action movie. It's a mediocre Star Trek movie. I do love it though. But I will never forgive it for giving us the concept of the Queen, which Voyager then ran with, and made the most dangerous enemy the Federation had into an easily manipulatable egotistical enemy.
...yes, the fundamental terror of the borg is the inevitability of post-singularity dehumanisation; to use a mass effect analogy, best of both worlds borg : first contact borg :: sovereign reapers : harbringer reapers...
Must say it is great to see a Star Trek fan that has opinions that goes against the usual favorites. I also have a bit of a conflicted relationship with the movies, as there aren't many of them I find truly Trek. I understand that First Contact is among the favorites of many as it is the most Hollywood cinematic, but it is low on my list. I usually put The Undiscovered Country, The Motion Picture or Insurrection at the top. Especially the last two feels most like double episodes, which is a good thing in my book. But I can totally get behind III and V for being among the best "hang out" films with the original crew. They have some of the best character moments at least.
Basis doesn't deserve a place at the table?
Did you mean Borg?
What do you think of the Undiscovered Country? That one is rather my favorite, though obviously it shares a great deal in common with Wrath of Khan via the director. It also has the advantage of allowing Spock to be the captain for much of the movie which highlights how funny and good of a leader he can be (When written by Nicholas Meyer, of course.)
My third favorite of all of the Star Trek movies.
I liked that they portrayed smart Klingons for a change. Otherwise it is kind of hard to believe that the Klingons mastered interstellar travel with the kind of people the Klingons in military were.
A popular theory is that their technology was largely stolen from their opponents as spoils of war.
So, like, at some point, presumably on Qo'noS, some very motivated Klingons with bat’leth beat back some very unfortunate invaders with their disrupters and it was all warp drives and sloppy table meat parties from there on out? Sure! Why not. More plausible than the last season of Picard.
No, of course not. There are most certainly capable engineers and scientists among the Klingons. However, they don't strike me as a civilization that allocates lots of resources to basic research. Perhaps the technologies they acquired from other species compensated for that. They then perfected and developed those "acquisitions" for their own applications.
It is not an either-or situation. Of course, Klingons do some science and engineering. But I don't imagine they're actively researching the origin of the universe or the theory of everything. They are eminently practical.
They're not the guys who invent iPhones. They're the ones who figure out how to make it into the deadliest phaser ever.
My comment was mostly in jest but yes, I agree with the points you’ve made above, especially about the Klingon’s practical nature.
...the undiscovered country would have been a far stronger film had it not shoehorned in nicholas meyer's son-of-khan screenplay, phoned-in production choices, and of course kept saavik's character arc intact...
I would definitely agree with that.
The only work of fiction where I cry at the end no matter how many times I see it.