32 votes

Neil Young pulls his music from Spotify after his ultimatum regarding Joe Rogan and ‘fake information about vaccines’

51 comments

  1. [30]
    cfabbro
    Link
    A bit off-topic, but I finally cancelled my Spotify Premium after several years of having it, and mentioned their continued support of Joe Rogan in my reason why. Anyone have any suggestions for...

    A bit off-topic, but I finally cancelled my Spotify Premium after several years of having it, and mentioned their continued support of Joe Rogan in my reason why. Anyone have any suggestions for good alternatives?

    13 votes
    1. [11]
      Akir
      Link Parent
      I rather liked Apple Music while I had it; it sure felt a lot nicer to use than Spotify and supposedly it pays artists better.

      I rather liked Apple Music while I had it; it sure felt a lot nicer to use than Spotify and supposedly it pays artists better.

      10 votes
      1. [10]
        cfabbro
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        I tried Apple Music for a while, shortly after it came out, and I can't remember having any major issues with it other than really disliking having to use iTunes and the Apple Music app. In the...

        I tried Apple Music for a while, shortly after it came out, and I can't remember having any major issues with it other than really disliking having to use iTunes and the Apple Music app. In the ~6-7 years since then it has probably only gotten better, and since I am still firmly in the Apple ecosystem with my iPhone and iPad I think Apple Music is probably what I will end up going with... Especially now that I have been made aware that there are alternative apps available for it these days (thanks @kfwyre and @weldawadyathink), it also now works with Alexa devices (which I have several of around the house), and they finally have a web frontend too so I don't have to use iTunes anymore in order to access it on my PC. Thanks for reminding me of its existence.

        6 votes
        1. ras
          Link Parent
          I almost exclusively use the web app version. Initially it was a very bad experience but it's been improving over time.

          I almost exclusively use the web app version. Initially it was a very bad experience but it's been improving over time.

          4 votes
        2. [6]
          Weldawadyathink
          Link Parent
          I hope you enjoy it! I think the fact that alternative apps can exist is the single best feature of Apple Music. I can’t see google or Spotify allowing that any time soon. It’s kinda funny to se...

          I hope you enjoy it! I think the fact that alternative apps can exist is the single best feature of Apple Music. I can’t see google or Spotify allowing that any time soon. It’s kinda funny to se the “walled garden” company have a richer music ecosystem and more choices than the “open” one.

          Some notes about the features you loose with these apps: Apple Music has a live, line by line, lyric mode that is really awesome. Neither Marvis or Albums has that (possibly an api limitation. Marvis syncs the currently playing songs with Music.app, so you can play a song in Marvis, open Music.app, and see the lyrics from there. Marvis even has a shortcut in many places to view in Music.app. Albums does not sync playing state, so this is not possible on Albums. All Music.app alternatives use the same “Apple Music Library” and the same downloaded songs.

          Somewhere on the internet, some person does a yearly review of a bunch of Music.app alternatives. Try and find that if you can and look through your options.

          4 votes
          1. Akir
            Link Parent
            Lyrics were honestly one of my favorite bonus features in Apple Music. Especially because Apple seems to be one of the few companies in the world who takes internationalization seriously so I...

            Lyrics were honestly one of my favorite bonus features in Apple Music. Especially because Apple seems to be one of the few companies in the world who takes internationalization seriously so I don't have to see a bunch of garbage characters on the screen whenever the song isn't in English.

            4 votes
          2. [3]
            csos95
            Link Parent
            Spotify has an api and there are third party clients. I don't know when the api/third party clients became available, but the one I use (spotifyd) had its first release in 2017 so they've had it...

            I think the fact that alternative apps can exist is the single best feature of Apple Music. I can’t see google or Spotify allowing that any time soon.

            Spotify has an api and there are third party clients.
            I don't know when the api/third party clients became available, but the one I use (spotifyd) had its first release in 2017 so they've had it for at least five years.

            3 votes
            1. [2]
              Weldawadyathink
              Link Parent
              Well, I stand corrected. Thanks for the information. Although it looks to me like these are pretty much limited to desktop apps (I did look on other websites, since Arch wiki is going to be biased...

              Well, I stand corrected. Thanks for the information.

              Although it looks to me like these are pretty much limited to desktop apps (I did look on other websites, since Arch wiki is going to be biased towards desktop). While this is definitely a shame, I don’t see how Spotify could improve it. I would love to see a future where apps could plug-in to any of the available music services.

              3 votes
              1. Kremor
                Link Parent
                You're correct in that the functionality is very limited, with the ones I've tried you still had to have the official client opened for them to work, not because they had incomplete features but...

                You're correct in that the functionality is very limited, with the ones I've tried you still had to have the official client opened for them to work, not because they had incomplete features but because that's a requirement for alternative clients.

                1 vote
          3. cfabbro
            (edited )
            Link Parent
            Hmm. I love singing along to music while I listen, so if the real-time lyrics are only available in the official Apple Music app, then that might be what I wind up using a good portion of the time...

            Hmm. I love singing along to music while I listen, so if the real-time lyrics are only available in the official Apple Music app, then that might be what I wind up using a good portion of the time anyways. But I will still tinker around with the other frontend apps, since I won't always want/need lyrics. Thanks for the advice.

            Regardless, I will likely still be going with Apple Music over the other options, since it appears to have everything I want feature-wise, and I don't mind Apple as a company. And TBH, so long as I don't have to use iTunes on my PC in order to access the service, that's more than enough of an improvement for me over the last time I tried it. I genuinely hate iTunes, especially the fact they still use an often confusing, unintuitive (to me) macOS style UI even in the Windows version.

            p.s. Do you happen to know if the web frontend also has real-time lyrics too, or is it only available in the iOS/iPadOS Apple Music app?

            1 vote
        3. [2]
          krg
          Link Parent
          The web app functions pretty well… but some things seem to only be able to be done on iTunes, unfortunately. E.g, creating a radio station based on a song. Or… I just haven’t found the way to do...

          The web app functions pretty well… but some things seem to only be able to be done on iTunes, unfortunately. E.g, creating a radio station based on a song. Or… I just haven’t found the way to do it via web app. If it had feature-parity with iTunes, that’d be great… cuz iTunes is a fuckin’ slog on Windows.

          Any ideas, @ras?

          3 votes
          1. ras
            Link Parent
            No, sorry, I don't use radio stations at all.

            No, sorry, I don't use radio stations at all.

            2 votes
    2. blender_cuttingham
      Link Parent
      I'm not a big fan of music streaming apps, but a coworker was using Deezer. It may be worth a shot.

      I'm not a big fan of music streaming apps, but a coworker was using Deezer. It may be worth a shot.

      4 votes
    3. Amarok
      Link Parent
      I haven't used any of the others in a while myself. Deezer was the most mature and had the best client/services behind Spotify. It also has a lot of European music that is not present on other...

      I haven't used any of the others in a while myself. Deezer was the most mature and had the best client/services behind Spotify. It also has a lot of European music that is not present on other streaming services.

      4 votes
    4. [2]
      kfwyre
      Link Parent
      Apple Music is good. I use Marvis Pro as an alternate front end for it and like it a lot better that way. If you’re wanting to roll your own, Astiga + pCloud worked great for me for a year, but I...

      Apple Music is good. I use Marvis Pro as an alternate front end for it and like it a lot better that way.

      If you’re wanting to roll your own, Astiga + pCloud worked great for me for a year, but I stopped using it after the original creator sold it off (not because I didn’t like who it was being sold to but just because it shook my faith in the long-term viability of the project). No idea how it is now, but if you have your own music files it might be worth looking into.

      4 votes
      1. Weldawadyathink
        Link Parent
        Marvis pro is great for Apple Music. If you are at all interested in albums as a medium, check out the app Albums

        Marvis pro is great for Apple Music.

        If you are at all interested in albums as a medium, check out the app Albums

        3 votes
    5. [11]
      skybrian
      Link Parent
      There is YouTube music, but if you don’t like Spotify’s politics you probably don’t like theirs either.

      There is YouTube music, but if you don’t like Spotify’s politics you probably don’t like theirs either.

      3 votes
      1. [2]
        lou
        Link Parent
        Is it even possible to boycott consistently? Often times when someone boycott's an evil large corporation, they just take their business to another, equally evil corporation.

        Is it even possible to boycott consistently? Often times when someone boycott's an evil large corporation, they just take their business to another, equally evil corporation.

        4 votes
        1. skybrian
          Link Parent
          I don’t know if I’d call it a boycott, but if nothing else, switching providers every so often means you still remember how to do it, and maybe they will give you a good deal to come back? You’ll...

          I don’t know if I’d call it a boycott, but if nothing else, switching providers every so often means you still remember how to do it, and maybe they will give you a good deal to come back? You’ll have to weigh that against the hassle of doing it, though.

          3 votes
      2. [8]
        Adys
        Link Parent
        I want to switch from Spotify to YouTube music but moving the playlists is basically impossible without working on it for a full day :/

        I want to switch from Spotify to YouTube music but moving the playlists is basically impossible without working on it for a full day :/

        2 votes
        1. [6]
          Amarok
          Link Parent
          Soundiiz can rather painlessly clone playlists to and from nearly every service. The pay-for version even supports automated multi-service replication/synchronization.

          Soundiiz can rather painlessly clone playlists to and from nearly every service. The pay-for version even supports automated multi-service replication/synchronization.

          4 votes
          1. [5]
            Adys
            Link Parent
            Thanks for the recommendation. Have you used it?

            Thanks for the recommendation. Have you used it?

            1 vote
            1. Amarok
              Link Parent
              I used it to push the listentothis bestofs around. They started on Spotify and it did a great job pumping them into Deezer and Tidal. It did a less-good job pumping them into Youtube playlists (in...

              I used it to push the listentothis bestofs around. They started on Spotify and it did a great job pumping them into Deezer and Tidal. It did a less-good job pumping them into Youtube playlists (in the Google Music era) and it didn't support Apple at all. That was in 2016. Haven't used it since, though I now see it supports Apple and Youtube Music. Soundiiz is actually a part of Tidal that was created just to make it easier for people to get their music into that service.

              5 votes
            2. calm_bomb
              Link Parent
              I used it for importing my liked artists/albums and transfer the playlists from Spotify to Deezer. It took less than 1h and it worked without any problem.

              I used it for importing my liked artists/albums and transfer the playlists from Spotify to Deezer. It took less than 1h and it worked without any problem.

              1 vote
            3. [2]
              Cycloneblaze
              Link Parent
              Late, but I used it to move one playlist from Spotify to Apple Music back at Hallowe'en (it was a friend's spooky music playlist, but I don't use Spotify). It worked immediately and without any...

              Late, but I used it to move one playlist from Spotify to Apple Music back at Hallowe'en (it was a friend's spooky music playlist, but I don't use Spotify). It worked immediately and without any hassle, so I'd recommend it. I don't know how long it might take to clone an entire library, but I imagine it would be a bit longer.

              1 vote
              1. Adys
                Link Parent
                I did end up subscribing and using it (thanks @Amarok). It mostly worked fine. Some things didn't port over, and I couldn't find a way to add "liked music" to the library instead of to the youtube...

                I did end up subscribing and using it (thanks @Amarok). It mostly worked fine. Some things didn't port over, and I couldn't find a way to add "liked music" to the library instead of to the youtube likes, will have to clean it up, but it's a much simpler job now.

                I'm trying out Youtube Music for a little while to see if it's suitable.

                3 votes
        2. skybrian
          Link Parent
          One possibility is to start fresh by making a new playlist with your current favorites. (You can still export the old ones and keep the file somewhere for reference.)

          One possibility is to start fresh by making a new playlist with your current favorites. (You can still export the old ones and keep the file somewhere for reference.)

          2 votes
    6. simplify
      Link Parent
      Strangely enough, this whole drama prompted me to finally sign up for Apple Music yesterday. I've managed my own music data for, uh, a very long time, but I've been wanting to explore one of the...

      Strangely enough, this whole drama prompted me to finally sign up for Apple Music yesterday. I've managed my own music data for, uh, a very long time, but I've been wanting to explore one of the music streaming services. I've had a never-used free Spotify account for five or six years, but I just decided to cancel it. If you want to test out Apple Music, Best Buy currently has a 6 month free trial. That's what I used. So far, I really like it. It's even better that Apple Music has lossless audio (Spotify doesn't), has no ads, and allows you to download music for offline listening.

      2 votes
    7. EightRoundsRapid
      Link Parent
      I find Jango creates good playlists (they call them stations). And I've always preferred Deezer to Spotify, although they're as bad as each other for paying artists fairly. If you want to buy...

      I find Jango creates good playlists (they call them stations). And I've always preferred Deezer to Spotify, although they're as bad as each other for paying artists fairly. If you want to buy rather than stream, Resonate looks like a winner if they can attract enough people to release through them. As a concept I think it deserves support.

      https://www.jango.com/

      https://resonate.is/

      1 vote
    8. Abrown
      Link Parent
      Tidal. Same price as Spotify but has HQ songs. It has most of the same music options too and there's even "Port Spotify lists to Tidal" apps out there to help you onboard faster.

      Tidal. Same price as Spotify but has HQ songs. It has most of the same music options too and there's even "Port Spotify lists to Tidal" apps out there to help you onboard faster.

      1 vote
  2. [4]
    Deimos
    Link
    Is there anything indicating that it's Spotify removing it, or is it Neil Young (or his label/representatives) doing it? Spotify's statement sounds like it's Young doing the removals, and I assume...

    Is there anything indicating that it's Spotify removing it, or is it Neil Young (or his label/representatives) doing it? Spotify's statement sounds like it's Young doing the removals, and I assume any artist can remove their own music whenever they want, barring some kind of special deal with Spotify.

    6 votes
    1. [3]
      Amarok
      Link Parent
      Apparently Neil posted a letter asking for it to be removed. I expect most artists are at the mercy of their labels when it comes to where their music appears. Neil is not most artists. He's both...

      Apparently Neil posted a letter asking for it to be removed.

      I expect most artists are at the mercy of their labels when it comes to where their music appears. Neil is not most artists. He's both in control of his music (with Sony right now, I think) and a long time political activist who doesn't mind losing money to make a point.

      4 votes
      1. [2]
        Deimos
        Link Parent
        Yeah, I know that part. I'm mostly asking because I'd like to edit the title if the story is actually "Neil Young pulls music from Spotify" and not "Spotify pulls Neil Young's music".

        Yeah, I know that part. I'm mostly asking because I'd like to edit the title if the story is actually "Neil Young pulls music from Spotify" and not "Spotify pulls Neil Young's music".

        6 votes
        1. vili
          Link Parent
          You can find a screenshot of Young's original post at the Neil Young blog Thrasher's Wheat (it's the image with the headline "A Message to Spotify"). You can also find Neil's later, longer post on...

          You can find a screenshot of Young's original post at the Neil Young blog Thrasher's Wheat (it's the image with the headline "A Message to Spotify"). You can also find Neil's later, longer post on his website.

          As you guessed, news outlets seem to have clickbaited this story. It doesn't look to me like Neil was giving an ultimatum and expected Spotify to remove Rogan. He just wanted his music to be taken off because he didn't feel comfortable sharing the platform with Rogan. And I'm sure knowing that if he does that, it will generate discussion and awareness.

          So yeah, "Neil Young pulls music from Spotify" sounds more accurate.

          8 votes
  3. [3]
    vili
    Link
    Joni Mitchell has joined Young and requested her music to be removed from Spotify.

    Joni Mitchell has joined Young and requested her music to be removed from Spotify.

    6 votes
    1. [2]
      cfabbro
      Link Parent
      Spotify Loses $2 Billion as Stock Plummets After Neil Young’s Joe Rogan Protest

      Spotify Loses $2 Billion as Stock Plummets After Neil Young’s Joe Rogan Protest

      Spotify’s market value dropped more than $2 billion in the last few days after Neil Young pulled his music over Joe Rogan’s podcast. Shares have tumbled around 12% from where it closed last week.

      1. vili
        Link Parent
        This feels like a bit of a clickbait headline to me, although many news outlets have been running with it. January has been pretty bad for the stock market as a whole, so everyone's been losing...

        This feels like a bit of a clickbait headline to me, although many news outlets have been running with it.

        January has been pretty bad for the stock market as a whole, so everyone's been losing value these past weeks. Meanwhile, Spotify's value has actually been dropping steadily for the past year, having now lost about half (!) of its value from a year ago, and about a quarter in the last month alone. If you look at last month's trend, the time since Neil Young made the headlines doesn't seem all that different from the weeks that preceded it. The downward slide continues quite steadily.

        This article from earlier this week goes into some detail about possible reasons for Spotify's dropping value.

        7 votes
  4. pallas
    (edited )
    Link
    I am certainly no fan of Joe Rogan, and where I disagree with vaccine policies, it is as a result of my views being more pro-vaccine. However, there are unsettling facets here, and I think it is...

    I am certainly no fan of Joe Rogan, and where I disagree with vaccine policies, it is as a result of my views being more pro-vaccine. However, there are unsettling facets here, and I think it is important not to be blinded to those by the sides involved here, and the dangers of the misinformation being protested.

    As a minor note, I would point out with some dismay that Young is using this opportunity to promote his own rather pseudoscientific views on audio. While not at the same level as anti-vaccination and pro-ivermectin claims, his views are part of an industry built around using pseudoscientific explanations to sell expensive products despite objective, blinded tests repeatedly showing that the products don't offer any perceptible benefit to audio quality (or even decrease fidelity). This is also an industry which he has participated in himself.

    Joni Mitchell's explanation for her position has, I think, much better grounding, in addition to being based around calls for specific actions on Spotify's part.

    But more broadly, this serves as a reminder of the significant problems that streaming music poses with its lack of ownership and its mutability, especially in an era when there are moves for some music and podcasts to only be available over streaming platforms, rather than actually available for purchase. For example, a practical result of this situation for me is that, because of some political disagreements over an internet provocateur, the copy of Blue that was physically on my phone a few days ago, downloaded from Spotify, is mostly no longer there (interestingly, it would have continued to have been able to play this for some time if it had been offline, and thus not able to be remotely disabled; whether or not this would have been legal would, I suppose, depend on contract nuances that no reasonable user could be expected to know). Music libraries people had a few days ago are now different, because, of course, they didn't actually have them; they just had an easily-altered licence to be able to play them, one that could be removed at any time.

    Yes, these actions are legal, and it would not make sense to force someone to do business with a particular company. But when combining the normalization of streaming over ownership and the normalization of these sorts of changes, problematic possibilities arise. Yes, a rightsholder might remove works because of serious health misinformation, or, as I'm sure will be argued by some in attacking this move, might remove works because of either a business's support or criticism of China. In those cases, you would presumably only have access to the works by changing streaming services. But a rightsholder, who would not necessarily be the artist, could well just remove works entirely, or even alter them. In a streaming-only world, the original works would cease to legally be available at all. At any point in the future, the lyrics and the sounds of music, the content of films, and the words of e-books could change or disappear, legally. In the past, changes to availability or content have been significantly softened by people actually owning copies of the original works. That would not be the case in a streaming-only world: there would be only the mutable access, changeable at any point in the future, and illegal copies. One could imagine a dystopian situation where an artist, bankrupted, has their works purchased by a hostile party, and thus, legally, their entire life's work erased from everyone's view entirely, or perhaps worse, altered to have an entirely opposite meaning. From a pure ominous capitalism standpoint, one might point out that Neil Young himself sold many of his rights to Hipgnosis, a company which appears to be founded for the specific purpose of exploiting the "unique market opportunity as technology disruption is changing the way music is consumed."

    As Joe Rogan's podcast appears to be Spotify-only, absent contractual restrictions, I have to wonder whether he could himself change past episodes retroactively, removing any legal access to the originals. If someone were to do this, for example, to change past arguments in a podcast or book, or to seem prescient, you could of course call them out on it, but what would be your evidence? Your necessarily illegal copies? Fair use might be an argument, but would it have been fair use to store copies of all streaming-only works, in case someone decided to change them in the future? We are moving toward a world where works of the past are legally mutable. That is frightening. While bad 1984 references are a plague, with the incentive of convenience, we are moving toward a world where legal and technical arrangements create a favourable environment for Minitrue-like activities without the need for vast state power.

    These protests are not that, not yet, particularly since they involve works that can be legally owned. But they may serve to normalize the idea that works of art may become unavailable at any time for political reasons.

    A somewhat similar precariousness of continued access existed, in some ways, in the earlier days of radio, film and television, more for practical reasons. That so many works were lost is, I think, mostly viewed with regret, and the less-than-legal copying that incidentally preserved many others by chance viewed favourably. But we're moving toward a world where that type of loss of legal copies is a goal, not a byproduct of expensive and fragile storage. What will we need to thank pirates for, and what will we have lost, a century from now?

    On my part, this is a bit of a punishment for falling to the convenience of streaming services. I have a copy of Blue, and many albums I listen to, that isn't just a licence. I'll likely switch back to relying on copies of music I own, perhaps streaming from my own servers.

    6 votes
  5. [4]
    Amarok
    Link
    Mildly interesting, looks like Neil sold some of his rights last year. I wonder what they'll have to say about this move.

    Mildly interesting, looks like Neil sold some of his rights last year. I wonder what they'll have to say about this move.

    5 votes
    1. [2]
      vili
      Link Parent
      Young wrote yesterday on his website that "Before I told my friends at Warner Bros about my desire to leave the SPOTIFY platform, I was reminded by my own legal forces that contractually I did not...

      Young wrote yesterday on his website that "Before I told my friends at Warner Bros about my desire to leave the SPOTIFY platform, I was reminded by my own legal forces that contractually I did not have the control of my music to do that. I announced I was leaving anyway, because I knew I was. I was prepared to do all I could and more just to make sure that happened."

      He goes on to explain that 60% of his streaming revenues come from Spotify and that he is very grateful to his record companies and the new owners of his publishing rights for standing with him in this issue and going forward with the removal.

      12 votes
      1. skybrian
        Link Parent
        That's interesting. If you're famous enough and willing to make a stink about it, maybe it doesn't matter what the contract says? So he gets paid millions and then gets to change the deal. As Matt...

        That's interesting. If you're famous enough and willing to make a stink about it, maybe it doesn't matter what the contract says? So he gets paid millions and then gets to change the deal. As Matt Levine would say, it's a good trade if you can pull it off.

        4 votes
    2. pallas
      Link Parent
      Hipgnosis, the company that bought the rights, is a music-rights investment firm that seeks to exploit the move toward streaming as the primary mode of music consumption. I wouldn't be surprised...

      Hipgnosis, the company that bought the rights, is a music-rights investment firm that seeks to exploit the move toward streaming as the primary mode of music consumption. I wouldn't be surprised if this type of move aligns well with their interests, showing streaming companies the power rightsholders have in the ability to quickly move around availability to different platforms.

      2 votes
  6. vegai
    Link
    I stopped using Spotify when they announced that they're going into podcast business. I smelled that absolutely nothing good can come from it. I didn't quite expect it to become this bad, but hey....

    I stopped using Spotify when they announced that they're going into podcast business. I smelled that absolutely nothing good can come from it. I didn't quite expect it to become this bad, but hey. Also I would guess that the IPO didn't help -- now their prime directive is making money, whereas before it might've been something tad more productive.

    5 votes
  7. patience_limited
    Link
    I've been thinking about consolidating playlists from various services for a while, and dropping Spotify was on my to-do list for this weekend. Since I'm finally giving up Google's evil empire and...

    I've been thinking about consolidating playlists from various services for a while, and dropping Spotify was on my to-do list for this weekend. Since I'm finally giving up Google's evil empire and moving to Apple's evil empire, it's time to try Apple Music.

    Of course, Soundiiz is showing that Spotify's API is erroring out today.

    2 votes
  8. [7]
    Amarok
    Link
    Jimmy Dore had a hot take on this news that surprised me. Seems like Neil isn't nearly the hero this story is making him out to be. This video might trigger some folks...

    Jimmy Dore had a hot take on this news that surprised me. Seems like Neil isn't nearly the hero this story is making him out to be. This video might trigger some folks...

    1. [6]
      pallas
      Link Parent
      What is the point of statements like this? In terms of the video, too, what is the point in wrapping potentially constructive points in such vitriol? Yes, Hipgnosis is ominous. But 'Neal Young is...

      This video might trigger some folks...

      What is the point of statements like this?

      In terms of the video, too, what is the point in wrapping potentially constructive points in such vitriol? Yes, Hipgnosis is ominous. But 'Neal Young is a small brain'? Entirely baseless It's probably... claims about a sexual motivation for the move? Digging up unrelated, if bad, statements from a half century ago? By, predictably, someone who promotes the anti-vaccine views in question here?

      4 votes
      1. [5]
        Amarok
        Link Parent
        I should think the point of a trigger warning is obvious and the reason for it should also be obvious on this video by the first article cited. We've had lengthy threads about this. I find Jimmy...

        I should think the point of a trigger warning is obvious and the reason for it should also be obvious on this video by the first article cited. We've had lengthy threads about this. I find Jimmy Dore's vitriol amusing and even endearing. Others do not, hence the little warning there. I thought it was noteworthy because it's the first and only time I saw anyone report about Blackstone and Neil's hypocrisy in this matter. Not worth a new thread, but certainly worth a comment in the existing one.

        2 votes
        1. [2]
          pallas
          Link Parent
          Ah, sorry: in the typical problem of tone being hard to read on the Internet, taken along with the video, I misinterpreted that as sarcasm, not as an actual trigger warning.

          Ah, sorry: in the typical problem of tone being hard to read on the Internet, taken along with the video, I misinterpreted that as sarcasm, not as an actual trigger warning.

          2 votes
          1. Amarok
            Link Parent
            Oh, no worries then. I was genuinely concerned that it would upset some folks - both Neil's fans and people in the LGBT community here. Through several conversations with some of the more open...

            Oh, no worries then. I was genuinely concerned that it would upset some folks - both Neil's fans and people in the LGBT community here. Through several conversations with some of the more open minded LGBT+ folks here I've come to understand just how brutal that simple word can be. It can literally ruin a person's day, or even their week, and so I try to be a bit more considerate about it than I have been in the past.

            2 votes
        2. [2]
          skybrian
          Link Parent
          I'm in favor of trigger warnings, but I think this one is kind of vague because you didn't say what's in the video that you think might trigger people. (I still don't know because I didn't watch...

          I'm in favor of trigger warnings, but I think this one is kind of vague because you didn't say what's in the video that you think might trigger people. (I still don't know because I didn't watch the video.)

          Also, for people who choose not to watch the video, maybe say what you learned from it so they can skip it?

          (I basically never watch YouTube except for music videos and occasionally 3D printing.)

          1 vote
          1. Amarok
            Link Parent
            Well, the other f-word appears briefly in an article that is shown (though it's never said out loud), and Jimmy is rather well known for his snark, sarcasm, vitriol, and crass humor - plenty in...

            Well, the other f-word appears briefly in an article that is shown (though it's never said out loud), and Jimmy is rather well known for his snark, sarcasm, vitriol, and crass humor - plenty in this video, most of it at Niel Young's expense. I'm not exactly sure how to tag that. What I learned from it is that Niel's royalties are, at present, held by and profiting a company that is infinitely worse than Joe Rogan will ever be, and if Niel doesn't have a problem with that, he's a truly stunning hypocrite.

            I'd be willing to bet Niel doesn't even know Blackstone is making money on him. I'm curious to see his response if this makes the rounds in the press and he picks up on it. It's a classic case of people in glass houses throwing stones.

            1 vote