I wonder if this is how people felt with Karen Carpenter back in the day. A month ago when she released the music video for hate that i made you love me there was a lot of hubbub online about her...
I wonder if this is how people felt with Karen Carpenter back in the day.
A month ago when she released the music video for hate that i made you love me there was a lot of hubbub online about her appearance and how skeletal she looked. And now after the release of the music video for petal there was even bigger noise about it, especially since she included a “joke” about how “she could lose a few pounds” which is a common joke on ED online spaces like Twitter and Tumblr. There have been these comments about her being too skinny since 2024, but if you see how she looked back then compared to now it’s such a stark difference.
She dropped out of a London play that she was supposed to do. She has a movie coming out in three months that I would be shocked if she’s doing press for that.
Oh man. I thought you mixed up the links before I clicked the second one; she looks a bit brittle and gaunt even in the first to me. But I went back to the (heartwarming) music video she did with...
Oh man. I thought you mixed up the links before I clicked the second one; she looks a bit brittle and gaunt even in the first to me.
But I went back to the (heartwarming) music video she did with mac miller for The Way and actually she looks similarly thin there as in your 2024 image, but she had way more healthy color back then. Not sure if I’m being deceived by lighting or if her nutrition (and health otherwise) has majorly declined. In my head I remember her as in this music video and I haven’t been keeping up I guess. Anyhoo, this was my excuse to rewatch the music video. Hope she gets better and rest in peace Mac Miller
You should check out her music video for 7 rings, during that era she would get comments about her being “fat.” Which I think is crazy since I think she looks great. And then if you see her music...
You should check out her music video for 7 rings, during that era she would get comments about her being “fat.” Which I think is crazy since I think she looks great.
And then if you see her music video for 34+35 (Remix) or her performance of Save Your Tears with The Weeknd (both in 2021) you’ll see that she is thinner but not as thin as she was in 2024. And then the progression goes to Wicked which was shot in 2022, and then her eternal sunshine stuff from 2024, to now.
Honestly pretty heartbreaking. Ariana seems to have just had such a rough life, for all her success. And I know she has a bit of a reputation as a diva and all that and there are plenty of things...
Honestly pretty heartbreaking. Ariana seems to have just had such a rough life, for all her success. And I know she has a bit of a reputation as a diva and all that and there are plenty of things that she has done that one can be critical of. At the same time between child stardom, the death of Mac Miller, and the concert bombing, plus whatever health struggles she’s currently dealing with it’s hard not to feel a lot of compassion for her and the limits of being rich and famous and beautiful.
She is one of the most tragic celebrity figures of the modern era, if not the most tragic. She’s, in my opinion, one of the most talented people alive. I was talking to my cousin about her and she...
She is one of the most tragic celebrity figures of the modern era, if not the most tragic.
She’s, in my opinion, one of the most talented people alive.
I was talking to my cousin about her and she went “it’s crazy how you can be so successful and pretty but still have these deep insecurities.”
It's just so important to remember everyone struggles in one way or another. I often forget... Love yourself and reach out to that friend you always want to buy never get around to
It's just so important to remember everyone struggles in one way or another. I often forget... Love yourself and reach out to that friend you always want to buy never get around to
On the more meta side of things I wish there was a tag to separate stuff like this from threads about music. I am interested in music, but I have no interest whatsoever in celebrity gossip....
On the more meta side of things I wish there was a tag to separate stuff like this from threads about music. I am interested in music, but I have no interest whatsoever in celebrity gossip. There's an obvious tangential relationship to music here, but the article ultimately isn't about music.
Maybe "celebrity_news"? Or maybe as a tag under ~news, "celebrity"?
These articles don’t get posted enough to warrant that separation. But, it’s also not as if it’s about a celebrity break up. If a musician dies, or announces an illness, or retires, should we post...
These articles don’t get posted enough to warrant that separation. But, it’s also not as if it’s about a celebrity break up. If a musician dies, or announces an illness, or retires, should we post that elsewhere because it’s only tangentially related to music?
With the tagging system already in place it could be posted in ~music and be given a tag indicating that it's celebrity news. Then people who prefer to avoid that can go out of their way to block...
should we post that elsewhere because it’s only tangentially related to music?
With the tagging system already in place it could be posted in ~music and be given a tag indicating that it's celebrity news. Then people who prefer to avoid that can go out of their way to block that tag while people who think that's relevant to their interest in music can carry on as usual.
But it’s also not like it’s about a celebrity break up.
To each their own, but as far as I'm concerned there's no relevant difference. For me it's mostly a matter of equal disinterest, but reviewing what people's comments on this are I can also see that the it spawned exactly the kind of scuttlebutt I would expect of it. Pretty flippant comments about her body and speculation about her health and life, which the article strongly implies is connected to the news without outright saying it, because no such connection has actually been established. Gossip, gossip, gossip. It's not like I'm particularly above that, but it is what it is.
I don't demand of anyone else to share that point of view, and I don't think my suggestion does either.
I feel like the backlash is kind of weird? She definitely pretty bone-thin, and it’s very possible that it’s unhealthy, but the tone seems to be that her existing in this state of being on music...
I feel like the backlash is kind of weird? She definitely pretty bone-thin, and it’s very possible that it’s unhealthy, but the tone seems to be that her existing in this state of being on music videos is somehow offensive. Which seems odd to me.
Maybe she needs help, but her body and her health is hers in the end. No one in her audience has a say.
Definitely agree. It's abysmally shitty that anyone's response to a suspicion that someone might have an eating disorder or body dysmorphia is to publicly call them out on it. If she does have a...
Definitely agree. It's abysmally shitty that anyone's response to a suspicion that someone might have an eating disorder or body dysmorphia is to publicly call them out on it. If she does have a body-dysmorphia-driven eating disorder, thousands of public comments by strangers about her appearance certainly isn't going to fucking help. Ugh.
I don't think public call outs are helpful and they're definitely part of the parasocial relationship between fans and celebrities. Harassing someone about their body does not lead to them being...
I don't think public call outs are helpful and they're definitely part of the parasocial relationship between fans and celebrities. Harassing someone about their body does not lead to them being healthier or safer.
And also... celebrities function in this public space often as role models, even unwillingly. Having lived through the era where the slightest stomach pooch would lead to Jessica Simpson or Britney Spears being called fat or pregnant in all of the tabloids and the impact of this on girls and women, especially the teenage girls I knew at the time... There is some space for societal concern about this trend returning, worsened by access to things like ozempic.
And this is why nothing about celebrity is particularly healthy, or positive for society IMO.
I don't disagree. That doesn't really seem like the shape that this current moment is taking though, I think. Instead, it looks like just another version of that exact same system that you're...
There is some space for societal concern about this trend returning, worsened by access to things like ozempic.
I don't disagree. That doesn't really seem like the shape that this current moment is taking though, I think. Instead, it looks like just another version of that exact same system that you're identifying from the previous era. People have been remarking that Ariana Grande is too thin for the better part of a decade now. I'm sure that before that (maybe even during it!) there were also people remarking about her being too fat. There's precisely one — mostly imaginary — shape that women are allowed to be in public, and I think that criticizing women for being too thin is probably feeding the same mysoginystic beast that gets fed when women are critized for being too fat.
Also, if what folks are looking for is a grounding example for a conversation about how modern society goes out of its way to induce eating disorders in women, there's really no need for that conversation to involve speculating about whether Ariana Grande has an eating disorder. Dozens of celebrities have had public conversations about their experiences with eating disorders. Here's Sophie Turner:
"When you’re bulimic, your face tends to bloat. So when I finally did get better in my early 20s, my face went back to normal. Then, suddenly, all the comments were about whether I’d had buccal fat removal or not,” she told British Vogue in 2024. “So yeah, you can never win.”
This shit is absolutely miserable, in my opinion. Plenty good fodder for social concern about this trend returning (or, more accurately I think, never having really gone away at all, just navigated more "politely").
Anyway, I think that you and I don't really disagree on this, thank you for allowing me some space to rant a bit.
And this is why nothing about celebrity is particularly healthy, or positive for society IMO.
Yeah I wasn't disagreeing, so much as acknowledging the bigger societal picture. I agree that "this" is some repetition of that past with some parasocial "I'm so worried about her" tagged on. But...
Yeah I wasn't disagreeing, so much as acknowledging the bigger societal picture. I agree that "this" is some repetition of that past with some parasocial "I'm so worried about her" tagged on. But also celebs being the jumping off point for bigger conversations isn't entirely unusual either - whether it's about health or domestic violence or any number of things.
But there's still a person under all that.
As part of the population that would be more likely to be praised for an eating disorder than get concern for it, I have a lot of feelings about the whole thing. Plus I work with college students whose own disordered eating is a whole other tangle I can't actually ever unravel with them due to not being a clinical professional.
I don't know how to just promote "healthy relationship to food" without having to deal with "skinnylicious" menus and plenty of concern trolling about bodies in general.
There is. And I worry, too, that someone struggling with their own body and food relationships can see this "conversation" and mostly be hearing: "Even Ariana Grande doesn't look good enough for...
But also celebs being the jumping off point for bigger conversations isn't entirely unusual either - whether it's about health or domestic violence or any number of things.
But there's still a person under all that.
There is. And I worry, too, that someone struggling with their own body and food relationships can see this "conversation" and mostly be hearing: "Even Ariana Grande doesn't look good enough for them." I mean there's no winning here, people will gleefully deride every single woman's physical appearance.
I've got a daughter now, and myself have struggled with (luckily manageable) body dysmorphia in the past. I used to hate my body for being too skinny and too fat all at the same time, so that was... fun.
My wife and I have started meeting with an intuitive eating nutritionist. She helps us work through strategies for providing a bullwark for our daughter against the kinds of societal pressure to look a particular way that we felt when we were growing up. It's sometimes staggering to confront the sheer scale of anti-fat bias and misogyny leveled at young people every day. Just spending any amount of time around parents of young children, and seeing how many of them (often good-hearted, well-intentioned people!) can't stop themselves from making comments about their children's food intake or limiting their access to foods that they have deemed "bad". Hell, half the parents I know have some app that lets them scan a bar code so they can see whether a food is "bad" or "good". It hurts my soul a little.
We seem very, very far from anything resembling a society-level "healthy relationship with food".
I love intuitive eating as a structure for thinking about food! I'm glad you've found something that works for you. I "joke" that ADHD saved me from hitting an actual ED diagnosis but I still run...
I love intuitive eating as a structure for thinking about food! I'm glad you've found something that works for you. I "joke" that ADHD saved me from hitting an actual ED diagnosis but I still run into "well I could just skip the meal anyway" thoughts on a semi-regular basis. Counting calories or carbs or whatever makes me miserable and I'd rather not be miserable as a rule. So I try to keep that healthier relationship around.
I am definitely not advocating for the current dialogue as it stands, I've seen some outliers who post really good, educational, non-shaming videos using the previous Wicked round of speculation about Ariana and Cynthia as the jumping off point. I mostly avoid celebrity gossip creators so I don't get the more harmful ones, but it's still insidious. (I also follow decent food/exercise creators who defend women, advocate for eating good stuff and not demonizing candy (or seed oils ಠ_ಠ) or people for eating how they like and will point out how unhealthy thinspiration is to consume... It helps!)
I’m gonna push back on the idea that she’s just being in the music video. Where I think she’s doing a lot of body checking poses to show off how thin she is and her costuming is purposefully...
I’m gonna push back on the idea that she’s just being in the music video. Where I think she’s doing a lot of body checking poses to show off how thin she is and her costuming is purposefully revealing the bones underneath.
The idea is that she’s promoting ED culture and because she’s so big she has a responsibility to not do that.
I don’t know about all that. Same with the idea of should the public comment on her current state. Too many societal implications. But, I do think it is clearly a very ED tumblr esque aesthetic that she has been using this album rollout.
A while back I read I'm Glad My Mom Died by Jenette McCurdy, who co-starred with Ariana Grande in Sam and Cat while she (Jenette) was in the throes of dealing with her own eating disorder....
A while back I read I'm Glad My Mom Died by Jenette McCurdy, who co-starred with Ariana Grande in Sam and Cat while she (Jenette) was in the throes of dealing with her own eating disorder. Coincidentally, my daughter had discovered the TV series, so I was seeing her act and hearing her talk about it at the same time. She seems fine on the screen, but she was definitely not fine. It's a pretty eye opening book.
My yoga teacher always says, "you can never step in the same river twice because it's not the same river, and you are not the same you."
As I have aged, I have seen that some things getting worse and some things getting better. My back hurts, but I have more perspective on the world. The things I value and the things I can contribute evolve. I am finding the "new me" daily, or at least often.
There's already a huge amount of pressure on women to conform to a beauty standard that's unhealthy and unattainable. But it seems like there's an extra layer with people who are in music or acting, where you yourself are the product.
I can't imagine what it would be like to live and work under this incredible pressure to continually deliver "the product" in a way that meets the same expectation today as yesterday, when I'm not the same today as yesterday. How could I ever reinvent myself if all the voices around me told me that doing so meant jeopardizing my career?
I have a colleague at work who is a film maker and loves film as art. He literally lights up when he talks about it. And plenty of people who love and are touched by music in amazing ways. But when something like this comes out, it makes me wonder if it's worth it. Is there a way to do it without the exploitation? Without the pressure? I don't know the answer.
After the book, every time there is a child actor in a film, it makes me question what they are going through behind the scenes, and if I want to be a part of that by watching it. Stories like this, about Ariana Grande, make me wonder if I should be questioning more.
Ariana Grande has been getting a lot of scruitiny for her appearance since at least the Wicked press stuff started. In particular, she seems to have been losing a lot of weight the last couple of...
Ariana Grande has been getting a lot of scruitiny for her appearance since at least the Wicked press stuff started. In particular, she seems to have been losing a lot of weight the last couple of years, suspected to be a result of Ozempic and possibly body dismorphia.
I wonder if this is how people felt with Karen Carpenter back in the day.
A month ago when she released the music video for hate that i made you love me there was a lot of hubbub online about her appearance and how skeletal she looked. And now after the release of the music video for petal there was even bigger noise about it, especially since she included a “joke” about how “she could lose a few pounds” which is a common joke on ED online spaces like Twitter and Tumblr. There have been these comments about her being too skinny since 2024, but if you see how she looked back then compared to now it’s such a stark difference.
She dropped out of a London play that she was supposed to do. She has a movie coming out in three months that I would be shocked if she’s doing press for that.
It’s all very sad really.
Ooof, she's really skinny now, ouch! Hopefully the break will do her good
Oh man. I thought you mixed up the links before I clicked the second one; she looks a bit brittle and gaunt even in the first to me.
But I went back to the (heartwarming) music video she did with mac miller for The Way and actually she looks similarly thin there as in your 2024 image, but she had way more healthy color back then. Not sure if I’m being deceived by lighting or if her nutrition (and health otherwise) has majorly declined. In my head I remember her as in this music video and I haven’t been keeping up I guess. Anyhoo, this was my excuse to rewatch the music video. Hope she gets better and rest in peace Mac Miller
You should check out her music video for 7 rings, during that era she would get comments about her being “fat.” Which I think is crazy since I think she looks great.
And then if you see her music video for 34+35 (Remix) or her performance of Save Your Tears with The Weeknd (both in 2021) you’ll see that she is thinner but not as thin as she was in 2024. And then the progression goes to Wicked which was shot in 2022, and then her eternal sunshine stuff from 2024, to now.
Honestly pretty heartbreaking. Ariana seems to have just had such a rough life, for all her success. And I know she has a bit of a reputation as a diva and all that and there are plenty of things that she has done that one can be critical of. At the same time between child stardom, the death of Mac Miller, and the concert bombing, plus whatever health struggles she’s currently dealing with it’s hard not to feel a lot of compassion for her and the limits of being rich and famous and beautiful.
She is one of the most tragic celebrity figures of the modern era, if not the most tragic.
She’s, in my opinion, one of the most talented people alive.
I was talking to my cousin about her and she went “it’s crazy how you can be so successful and pretty but still have these deep insecurities.”
It's just so important to remember everyone struggles in one way or another. I often forget... Love yourself and reach out to that friend you always want to buy never get around to
On the more meta side of things I wish there was a tag to separate stuff like this from threads about music. I am interested in music, but I have no interest whatsoever in celebrity gossip. There's an obvious tangential relationship to music here, but the article ultimately isn't about music.
Maybe "celebrity_news"? Or maybe as a tag under ~news, "celebrity"?
These articles don’t get posted enough to warrant that separation. But, it’s also not as if it’s about a celebrity break up. If a musician dies, or announces an illness, or retires, should we post that elsewhere because it’s only tangentially related to music?
With the tagging system already in place it could be posted in ~music and be given a tag indicating that it's celebrity news. Then people who prefer to avoid that can go out of their way to block that tag while people who think that's relevant to their interest in music can carry on as usual.
To each their own, but as far as I'm concerned there's no relevant difference. For me it's mostly a matter of equal disinterest, but reviewing what people's comments on this are I can also see that the it spawned exactly the kind of scuttlebutt I would expect of it. Pretty flippant comments about her body and speculation about her health and life, which the article strongly implies is connected to the news without outright saying it, because no such connection has actually been established. Gossip, gossip, gossip. It's not like I'm particularly above that, but it is what it is.
I don't demand of anyone else to share that point of view, and I don't think my suggestion does either.
I feel like the backlash is kind of weird? She definitely pretty bone-thin, and it’s very possible that it’s unhealthy, but the tone seems to be that her existing in this state of being on music videos is somehow offensive. Which seems odd to me.
Maybe she needs help, but her body and her health is hers in the end. No one in her audience has a say.
Definitely agree. It's abysmally shitty that anyone's response to a suspicion that someone might have an eating disorder or body dysmorphia is to publicly call them out on it. If she does have a body-dysmorphia-driven eating disorder, thousands of public comments by strangers about her appearance certainly isn't going to fucking help. Ugh.
I don't think public call outs are helpful and they're definitely part of the parasocial relationship between fans and celebrities. Harassing someone about their body does not lead to them being healthier or safer.
And also... celebrities function in this public space often as role models, even unwillingly. Having lived through the era where the slightest stomach pooch would lead to Jessica Simpson or Britney Spears being called fat or pregnant in all of the tabloids and the impact of this on girls and women, especially the teenage girls I knew at the time... There is some space for societal concern about this trend returning, worsened by access to things like ozempic.
And this is why nothing about celebrity is particularly healthy, or positive for society IMO.
I don't disagree. That doesn't really seem like the shape that this current moment is taking though, I think. Instead, it looks like just another version of that exact same system that you're identifying from the previous era. People have been remarking that Ariana Grande is too thin for the better part of a decade now. I'm sure that before that (maybe even during it!) there were also people remarking about her being too fat. There's precisely one — mostly imaginary — shape that women are allowed to be in public, and I think that criticizing women for being too thin is probably feeding the same mysoginystic beast that gets fed when women are critized for being too fat.
Also, if what folks are looking for is a grounding example for a conversation about how modern society goes out of its way to induce eating disorders in women, there's really no need for that conversation to involve speculating about whether Ariana Grande has an eating disorder. Dozens of celebrities have had public conversations about their experiences with eating disorders. Here's Sophie Turner:
This shit is absolutely miserable, in my opinion. Plenty good fodder for social concern about this trend returning (or, more accurately I think, never having really gone away at all, just navigated more "politely").
Anyway, I think that you and I don't really disagree on this, thank you for allowing me some space to rant a bit.
Indeed.
Yeah I wasn't disagreeing, so much as acknowledging the bigger societal picture. I agree that "this" is some repetition of that past with some parasocial "I'm so worried about her" tagged on. But also celebs being the jumping off point for bigger conversations isn't entirely unusual either - whether it's about health or domestic violence or any number of things.
But there's still a person under all that.
As part of the population that would be more likely to be praised for an eating disorder than get concern for it, I have a lot of feelings about the whole thing. Plus I work with college students whose own disordered eating is a whole other tangle I can't actually ever unravel with them due to not being a clinical professional.
I don't know how to just promote "healthy relationship to food" without having to deal with "skinnylicious" menus and plenty of concern trolling about bodies in general.
Thanks for your reply!
There is. And I worry, too, that someone struggling with their own body and food relationships can see this "conversation" and mostly be hearing: "Even Ariana Grande doesn't look good enough for them." I mean there's no winning here, people will gleefully deride every single woman's physical appearance.
I've got a daughter now, and myself have struggled with (luckily manageable) body dysmorphia in the past. I used to hate my body for being too skinny and too fat all at the same time, so that was... fun.
My wife and I have started meeting with an intuitive eating nutritionist. She helps us work through strategies for providing a bullwark for our daughter against the kinds of societal pressure to look a particular way that we felt when we were growing up. It's sometimes staggering to confront the sheer scale of anti-fat bias and misogyny leveled at young people every day. Just spending any amount of time around parents of young children, and seeing how many of them (often good-hearted, well-intentioned people!) can't stop themselves from making comments about their children's food intake or limiting their access to foods that they have deemed "bad". Hell, half the parents I know have some app that lets them scan a bar code so they can see whether a food is "bad" or "good". It hurts my soul a little.
We seem very, very far from anything resembling a society-level "healthy relationship with food".
Thank you for your replies, as well!
I love intuitive eating as a structure for thinking about food! I'm glad you've found something that works for you. I "joke" that ADHD saved me from hitting an actual ED diagnosis but I still run into "well I could just skip the meal anyway" thoughts on a semi-regular basis. Counting calories or carbs or whatever makes me miserable and I'd rather not be miserable as a rule. So I try to keep that healthier relationship around.
I am definitely not advocating for the current dialogue as it stands, I've seen some outliers who post really good, educational, non-shaming videos using the previous Wicked round of speculation about Ariana and Cynthia as the jumping off point. I mostly avoid celebrity gossip creators so I don't get the more harmful ones, but it's still insidious. (I also follow decent food/exercise creators who defend women, advocate for eating good stuff and not demonizing candy (or seed oils ಠ_ಠ) or people for eating how they like and will point out how unhealthy thinspiration is to consume... It helps!)
I’m gonna push back on the idea that she’s just being in the music video. Where I think she’s doing a lot of body checking poses to show off how thin she is and her costuming is purposefully revealing the bones underneath.
The idea is that she’s promoting ED culture and because she’s so big she has a responsibility to not do that.
I don’t know about all that. Same with the idea of should the public comment on her current state. Too many societal implications. But, I do think it is clearly a very ED tumblr esque aesthetic that she has been using this album rollout.
A while back I read I'm Glad My Mom Died by Jenette McCurdy, who co-starred with Ariana Grande in Sam and Cat while she (Jenette) was in the throes of dealing with her own eating disorder. Coincidentally, my daughter had discovered the TV series, so I was seeing her act and hearing her talk about it at the same time. She seems fine on the screen, but she was definitely not fine. It's a pretty eye opening book.
My yoga teacher always says, "you can never step in the same river twice because it's not the same river, and you are not the same you."
As I have aged, I have seen that some things getting worse and some things getting better. My back hurts, but I have more perspective on the world. The things I value and the things I can contribute evolve. I am finding the "new me" daily, or at least often.
There's already a huge amount of pressure on women to conform to a beauty standard that's unhealthy and unattainable. But it seems like there's an extra layer with people who are in music or acting, where you yourself are the product.
I can't imagine what it would be like to live and work under this incredible pressure to continually deliver "the product" in a way that meets the same expectation today as yesterday, when I'm not the same today as yesterday. How could I ever reinvent myself if all the voices around me told me that doing so meant jeopardizing my career?
I have a colleague at work who is a film maker and loves film as art. He literally lights up when he talks about it. And plenty of people who love and are touched by music in amazing ways. But when something like this comes out, it makes me wonder if it's worth it. Is there a way to do it without the exploitation? Without the pressure? I don't know the answer.
After the book, every time there is a child actor in a film, it makes me question what they are going through behind the scenes, and if I want to be a part of that by watching it. Stories like this, about Ariana Grande, make me wonder if I should be questioning more.
I'm completely OOTL on this, what controversy is the article talking about?
Ariana Grande has been getting a lot of scruitiny for her appearance since at least the Wicked press stuff started. In particular, she seems to have been losing a lot of weight the last couple of years, suspected to be a result of Ozempic and possibly body dismorphia.