19 votes

Do you prefer to hand-pick the music you listen to, or rely on curators/algorithms to decide?

The comments in the Spotify patent thread about their crappy recommendations got me thinking about this.

Gonna leave my own answer as a comment below.

20 comments

  1. [2]
    krg
    Link
    I just go by whatever's playing on Starbucks' speakers. Just kidding. Except for maybe once, or twice... The first recommendation engine I used was Pandora, back when they were the only game in...

    I just go by whatever's playing on Starbucks' speakers.

    Just kidding.

    Except for maybe once, or twice...

    The first recommendation engine I used was Pandora, back when they were the only game in town. And I genuinely enjoyed their recommendations. I had off-the-wall musical tastes (still do) and I was consistently shown stuff that was pretty cool. Dunno how it's faring these days....

    Later, I'd often pick songs that I like and start a radio station based on them in Google Play Music R.I.P and would occasionally hear artists and some stuff that stood out to me, which I'd add to the "Good Sounds" database in my head (and Google's database of my "liked" songs/artists).

    Nowadays, I rarely rely on algorithmic taste-makers. Though, I don't count them out completely.

    Beyond that, I'll read a few music rags and if anything piques my interest on paper, I'll give it a listen. And I'll check in on the artists I like every once in a while to see if they're working on anything new.

    Hell, I have such a backlog of "to-listen" that I probably should stop seeking out new music, at this point...

    11 votes
    1. guywithhair
      Link Parent
      Wow this sounds a ton like myself. Also started off with stuff like Pandora, but started hand-picking all of my music in college to the point where I had a similar "Listen to" playlist. I would...

      Wow this sounds a ton like myself. Also started off with stuff like Pandora, but started hand-picking all of my music in college to the point where I had a similar "Listen to" playlist. I would listen to music (mostly EDM) while studying/doing homework for college, and churn through 300 new songs in a 2-3 week basis.

      Every now and then, I'd try out the music recommendations on Spotify and Soundcloud, and it's often like searching for a diamond in the rough. Spotify's has gotten pretty good over the years, and can generally match a mood reasonably well off of an album/artist.

      I still mostly handpick music, but go much slower now, about 6 years after starting this. Unsurprisingly I have way too much music saved -- something like 150 playlists, but idk how many songs. I hardly like 50% of it anymore, but I find it really easy to find the right music to match what I'm feeling. It's probably been the best for helping me branch out into new genres.

      2 votes
  2. Amarok
    (edited )
    Link
    I prefer to hand-pick it, and then find out what everyone else has been picking for themselves. My rationale for this is pretty basic - people make the best filters for mediocre music. If you ask...

    I prefer to hand-pick it, and then find out what everyone else has been picking for themselves. My rationale for this is pretty basic - people make the best filters for mediocre music. If you ask someone what their favorite music is, they won't remember anything that didn't blow their hair back. They'll only remember the stuff that spoke to them. Odds are good if it speaks to them, it will speak to you as well.

    I'll follow other curators too. If they have the same habit I do, I'm doubling my incoming music volume for almost no effort. I'll keep an ear on music forums that produce good results, browse year end lists, track down pirate music blogs - any source is fine and there's no such thing as too much music. I'll follow good radio shows if I can find them, and plenty of youtube channels.

    Lately I've even started following some few of the music 'reactors' on twitch/youtube who actually know what they are talking about. I've been finding good artists that way (better success than forums, surprisingly). There's something ancient being revived by this phenomena. Music is starting to reclaim some of the social aspects it lost when live shows were dethroned by radio and mass production of media. This concept of music community died out of the music world and it's back for the first time in generations, but that's a topic for another thread, I'm digressing. :P

    I don't mind skimming through large algorithmic playlists hunting down new artists. I'll either let it play in the background (in which case I ignore it until a track manages to steal my attention away from work/games) or I'll actively burn through the list in an hour, listening to and skipping around in tracks looking for anything interesting. Spotify's discovery weekly is a good example, but that playlist takes me like ten minutes to process and half of it is always stuff I already know about - I'd kill for a 'never show me an artist I already follow or indicate no interest in' feature, so that all those tracks would at least have a shot at exposing me to a new artist.

    When I'm in fast burn mode like this I'll listen to maybe 30 seconds of a given track, start-middle-end bits. If it all sounds the same, pass. If I've heard that forumla before, pass. If the lyrics are boring, pass. If the music doesn't move or surprise me in some way, pass. I can get through a lot of music very fast like this. I'm sure I miss a few, but I make up for it with sheer volume. I also know this doesn't work on big brain stuff like prog - those albums take a couple spins to unlock, so I put them in a separate pile.

    I'm also pretty generous here, anything that sounds unusual or gets me even a little makes this cut. Bulk processing is the worst time for music snobbery. When I find something, I just file it into a playlist of my own to remind me to look into that artist later. All it takes to get me on the artist's page is one decent track.

    Then there's cratedigger mode. I'll come back to those playlists (more like bookmarks) of artists that made the cut some days/weeks later with a very different goal. Now I'm visiting each artist that made it into the list and jumping around in their discography, checking out albums, singles, etc. This is how I spend my active listening time - when it's just the music and no other distractions.

    If I like what I hear, the artist gets followed one way or another on some service so I'll know the day they drop a new single/release. I'm making my own feed of good music just by following a couple thousand artists. I start sharing their tracks on forums like ~music at this point. If it really blows my hair back, I'll be buying the album to support the artist. I usually get flac downloads because if I start collecting vinyl I will be doomed.

    Make it through that frankly ridiculous process and the artist is now at mp3-player status. Their albums will be on my phone or PC. This is the stuff I listen to on repeat, when writing, etc. The best of the haul. Albums tend to age out of this in favor of new ones over time, so it's always being refreshed.

    5 votes
  3. Akir
    Link
    Handpick, for sure. First off, streaming services tend to not have all the music that I like on it. So even if the algorithm was actually good, it wouldn't actually have enough that I find...

    Handpick, for sure.

    First off, streaming services tend to not have all the music that I like on it. So even if the algorithm was actually good, it wouldn't actually have enough that I find interesting.

    But algorithms aren't good. The longer they go, the more generic they get. Even when I play more mainstream music it fails me. I can tell it to start playing Abba and it'll be Abba's greatest hits for a while, and then it puts in other artists, and then Abba basically disappears from the selection and it eventually turns into a Journey playlist. That's super not cool.

    Curated playlists work well when you can find people who have the same tastes as you, but that doesn't work out well for me. The only thing close to this is listening to the Pixelated Audio podcast, but that's mixed in with commentary, so it's not the best background track.

    4 votes
  4. [3]
    Comment deleted by author
    Link
    1. DMBuce
      Link Parent
      Which stations / how did you find them? In my own search for worthwhile radio stations, it seems to me that college stations and adult album alternative stations (If that's what you meant by...

      My entire life I've listened to either college and/or alternative radio stations in order to discover artists.

      Which stations / how did you find them?

      In my own search for worthwhile radio stations, it seems to me that college stations and adult album alternative stations (If that's what you meant by "alternative"? Making a leap here) are a dime a dozen, so I mostly glossed over them. If there's a way to separate the wheat from the chaff, I'd love to know about it.

      In my own (admittedly unsophisticated) searches, it seemed like LP stations and volunteer-run stations was where all the interesting stuff was at. But I guess "interesting" is subjective, so what do I know?

      2 votes
  5. [2]
    boredop
    Link
    Algorhythms: no, almost never. No spotify, no pandora, no autoplay on youtube, none of that shit. There's no algorhythm that can scratch my listening itch better than I can. Curators: Sometimes....

    Algorhythms: no, almost never. No spotify, no pandora, no autoplay on youtube, none of that shit. There's no algorhythm that can scratch my listening itch better than I can.

    Curators: Sometimes. There are a few radio DJs who know what they're doing, mostly on non-commercial stations - public radio, low power community stations and college radio.

    But I'd say 90% of the time I'm programming my own soundtrack. Records, CDs, mp3s, or searching for something specific on youtube when necessary.

    4 votes
    1. DMBuce
      Link Parent
      This is so true. CBAA, NPR, and state-level public radio stations are such treasures, and LP stations seem a lot more raw and interesting, on average, at least in my limited experience of them. I...

      There are a few radio DJs who know what they're doing, mostly on non-commercial stations - public radio, low power community stations and college radio.

      This is so true. CBAA, NPR, and state-level public radio stations are such treasures, and LP stations seem a lot more raw and interesting, on average, at least in my limited experience of them.

      I have to admit that I've had a hard time finding good college stations, though. There's just too many of them to sift through.

      2 votes
  6. JCPhoenix
    Link
    I definitely use the algorithmic or curated playlists as a jumping off point. I love Spotify's "Discover Weekly" and the various "Daily Mix" lists to see what I can find. I do the same on YouTube...

    I definitely use the algorithmic or curated playlists as a jumping off point. I love Spotify's "Discover Weekly" and the various "Daily Mix" lists to see what I can find. I do the same on YouTube and SoundCloud. I'll toss radio in there too. They all do a good job of bringing me good music.

    But if I want to actually simply listen to music? That's mostly handpicked. I don't really craft custom playlists anymore; haven't done so in probably a decade. Instead, I'll jump around my favorites/genres lists or various albums playlists as I go song-to-song. Even for "Discovery Weekly" and such, it's rare for me to actually listen to the entire list. I'll usually listen to handful of songs, favorite the ones I like, then head on down the rabbit hole to see where it leads.

    4 votes
  7. [3]
    knocklessmonster
    Link
    I tend to go through networks of collaborators and affiliations, and accidental curiosity more than anything. If an artist I listen to works with or talks about another artist, I'll go give them a...

    I tend to go through networks of collaborators and affiliations, and accidental curiosity more than anything. If an artist I listen to works with or talks about another artist, I'll go give them a listen. If an artist used a name as a reference to another, I'm at least intrigued. This has taken me weird places, like from MC Frontalot to Quelle Chris, Busdriver to Danny Brown and Aesop Rock, Mastodon to Melvins, Deadmau5 to Phace. Jethro Tull to King Crimson. King Crimson to ambient music as a genre (via Brian Eno, who Fripp worked with often). For me, these networks do a great job of keeping my musical interests going.

    As far as curators go, I found some stuff through TheNeedleDrop that I enjoy, but even then the vast majority of the music he talked about I simply had no interest in, so I stopped following him. I got into drone through Anthony Fantano and Mike Rugnetta talking about experimental music, which introduced me to Sunn 0))) and Earth, and led to some other stuff, but it's rare for me to be actively exposed to something like this that I like. Literally the two artists I regularly listen to because of him are JPEGMAFIA and IDLES.

    I intentionally try to avoid outside influence for two reasons: Critics and tastemakers are only telling you what they think or like, and algorithms tend to use metrics that I'd bet are different than my for why I like a given artist/album/track. Any time I've had a "People who like <X> will like <Y>," it's usually because of some superficial similarity, which leads me to not enjoy Y as much as I liked X as the sum of its parts. I'm interested enough in music in general to stumble into artists I've never been exposed to to listen to just by looking up details about an artist or genre. For me, there's a joy in discovery, but also usually disappointment at a recommendation.

    4 votes
    1. [2]
      Akir
      Link Parent
      I kind of envy your technique. By looking for collaborators you are going to find music that is closer to your tastes because there are going to be much deeper links between them than simple...

      I kind of envy your technique. By looking for collaborators you are going to find music that is closer to your tastes because there are going to be much deeper links between them than simple things like genre.

      I wish that music database sites had obsessive cataloging of everyone involves in the song’s creation. When it comes to big commercial music, the person who actually matters most is the producer because they are in charge of the actual sound they record and release. And yet databases rarely credit them, and when they do they don’t tend to index them so I can find them.

      2 votes
      1. knocklessmonster
        Link Parent
        At least for hip hop, that's not necessary. It also helps to look up interviews of your favorite musicians, who often will talk about their influences, or even Wikipedia which often refers to them...

        I wish that music database sites had obsessive cataloging of everyone involves in the song’s creation.

        At least for hip hop, that's not necessary. It also helps to look up interviews of your favorite musicians, who often will talk about their influences, or even Wikipedia which often refers to them anyway.

        It's dead simple with hip hop, though. "Song ft. ThisGuy, That Guy, ThatOtherGuy" really helps you find those other people.

        1 vote
  8. oryx
    (edited )
    Link
    Honestly I use both. For genres/music I'm already familiar with I'm going to select what I listen to. If I'm trying to broaden my tastes by exploring unknown bands/genres then I'm happy to check...

    Honestly I use both. For genres/music I'm already familiar with I'm going to select what I listen to. If I'm trying to broaden my tastes by exploring unknown bands/genres then I'm happy to check out which albums I should start with on something like rateyourmusic.com. If I like what I hear I generally explore further on my own, but I usually start with critically acclaimed albums when I'm checking someone out for the first time.

    That being said, I've been curating my own music collection since I was like 18, so almost 20 years now. It takes a lot of actual work to look for music on your own but I find it really rewarding when you find a total gem. My most recent favourite find: Henry Saiz - Reality Is For Those Who Are Not Strong Enough To Confront Their Dreams.

    3 votes
  9. DMBuce
    Link
    I definitely fall in the latter camp. Personally I have no desire to queue up songs or maintain playlists, and bounced off of Spotify because of it. For a long time I would listen to my music...

    I definitely fall in the latter camp. Personally I have no desire to queue up songs or maintain playlists, and bounced off of Spotify because of it. For a long time I would listen to my music library on shuffle at home (which is okay), Pandora at work (better), and the radio in the car to/from work (pretty great because of one station near me that I happen to like a lot).

    After working from home made me sick of my music library, I spent some time setting up a way to listen to pandora and the radio using cli tools so that I wouldn't have to keep a browser tab open for them. And once I did that, I realized it was kind of silly limiting my radio listening to the one good station near me, so I went looking for others.

    My goal was (and still kind of is) to set up a playlist with a handful of quality radio stations that I could flip between whenever a song rubbed me the wrong way, but about a month and a half ago I found my spirit animal in radio form when I tuned in to a Colorado station called Mountain Chill for the first time. So that's mostly what I've been listening to since then.

    2 votes
  10. joplin
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    When I was younger, I took great pride in putting together playlists. (Or as we called them, cassette tapes.) Even once music moved onto devices, I enjoyed making playlists a bit. But as time has...

    When I was younger, I took great pride in putting together playlists. (Or as we called them, cassette tapes.) Even once music moved onto devices, I enjoyed making playlists a bit. But as time has gone on, it just seems like such a pain in the ass to make a specific list of songs to play that would be long enough to be worthwhile. I have like 10 playlists I started and stopped adding stuff to after like 5 songs. Some of the features that music apps have like "Genius Playlists" that can make automatic playlists of your own music make this better. And if you can mix streaming and local music, that adds a lot of variety. But as others have said, I've been disappointed with the quality of the algorithms that decide which songs to add once you add streaming stuff.

    I think someone here on Tildes mentioned GNOD, and I've found some good suggestions using that site. It presented stuff I had never heard of, and it seemed to give much better suggestions than Pandora, iTunes, or other apps I've used (which admittedly is not that many). It introduced me to bands I didn't even know exist, which I don't think happened as much with other apps. Whereas when I used to use Pandora, it tended to either play songs that all sounded exactly the same (not just similar, but like nearly identical), or it would create a "station" that played the same 10 or 20 songs every time I turned it on (but in a different order). Using the "more variety" options tended to make it go crazy and do things like adding Christmas music to a Classical station.

    So I'd say that I want something that can make automatic playlists and suggest stuff I'm not aware of, but I've been fairly disappointed by what I've found so far, with the exception of GNOD.

    2 votes
  11. Micycle_the_Bichael
    (edited )
    Link
    Edit: Replaced "band" with "artist" because I feel like it better represents both the wide genres of music I listen to and what value I think they have culturally. My answer is mostly "yes". I...

    Edit: Replaced "band" with "artist" because I feel like it better represents both the wide genres of music I listen to and what value I think they have culturally.

    My answer is mostly "yes".

    1. I have a list of artists I already know I like. I own their music either from buying a CD while at a concert or buying it on bandcamp. I then download a torrent of it so I can throw it in the cloud and on an external and have 1000% knowledge I won't lose it even if my apartment burned down with my CD collection, laptop, and phone in it.

    2. Artists that go on tour with artists I like will usually get a couple plays on spotify/YouTube/soundcloud/bandcamp/wherever I can listen for free, and then if I like them they become covered by (1). I don't know who you would say chooses that music for me lol. artists, their managers, myself since I decide what shows I'm going to go to and who to check out after the show?

    3. Bandcamp articles/lists/playlists.

    4. Borrowing CD's from my friends. A lot of us are into smaller artists that either aren't on Spotify or it is far from guaranteed they'll stay on there, or more likely we know they're not getting more than .001c from Spotify so we still have a big "buy CD's" culture in our group (tho some people decided to be extra hipster and started collecting cassette tapes and made it more difficult to share, JOEY). We've all got a pretty good feeling on each other's musical tastes and so when we find an artist we like, we make a point to share cds with each other. Much harder to do lately, but that's so low on the list of pandemic issues it doesn't really even register.

    5. Spotify playlists from friends. This is basically (4) except digital. I never make my own playlists and I find every playlist Spotify makes to be terrible so I don't use them. But my friends have great tastes in music.

    2 votes
  12. UntouchedWagons
    Link
    I'm super picky about the music I listen to. Are there any programs I can use that'll look at the music I've got and can suggest other songs I might like?

    I'm super picky about the music I listen to.

    Are there any programs I can use that'll look at the music I've got and can suggest other songs I might like?

    2 votes
  13. mxuribe
    Link
    Years ago, i would definitely hand-pick my music. And, then spotify, pandora, and other platforms became more popular, so i tried them...but found them lacking a bit. For the last, i'd say 4 or 5...

    Years ago, i would definitely hand-pick my music. And, then spotify, pandora, and other platforms became more popular, so i tried them...but found them lacking a bit. For the last, i'd say 4 or 5 years, i just find curators on youtube and listen to playlists that they compile. When i'm coding - which is only about 20% of my job nowadays - i like to listen to music like dance, house, techno, especially synthwave/retrowave, and such. So now, i just open a browser tab to youtube, search for genres of music and look for playlists curated by people. Does that count as using YouTube's algorithm but still technically depending on humans/curators? :-)

    1 vote
  14. DonQuixote
    Link
    Since I have very eclectic tastes, I've come to rely on my curated lists.

    Since I have very eclectic tastes, I've come to rely on my curated lists.

  15. RNG
    (edited )
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    This question is really interesting to me, since I haven't given too much thought for the reasons I have listened to the music I listen to. I'll try to list some music I've listened to over the...

    This question is really interesting to me, since I haven't given too much thought for the reasons I have listened to the music I listen to. I'll try to list some music I've listened to over the past year or two and the
    reasons I discovered it. I've discovered algorithms have played almost no role at all in my music preferences.


    Milo

    A friend at a book club played the music in the car on the way there. I really liked it, and highly recommend Milo to anyone interested. Definitely one of my favorite artists. Sort of a Lo-Fi hip hop aesthetic.

    Top songs: Folk-Metaphysics, Zen Scientist


    Anti-Flag

    While I am cheating since I listened to them when I was younger, I heard from a friend at a punk show that they had put out a good album recently (2016.) It was phenomenal. Something about the election of a rightist in 2016 and a burgeoning fascist movement really gave punk rock a lot of material to work with. Their latest album put out last year is also incredible.

    Top songs: Hate Conquers All, American Attraction


    Emay

    Great music made by a hip hop artist / Marxist podcaster, Emay's work is really interesting as a black / indigenous leftist from Canada. Heard his music on a podcast, and really dug it.

    Top songs: Lilac, Israfil "angels trumpet"


    Glass Animals

    Played at the end of a podcast episode. I got interested and looked them up. Later, I re-discovered them when I saw an article talking about quarantine songs.

    Top songs: Heat Waves, Black Mambo


    lofi hip hop radio - beats to relax/study to

    Discovered through a friend of mine I was studying with. Never really listened to music while studying, but this definitely hits the spot. Great music to code to imho. On YT here


    Summary:

    I think most of the music I wind up liking has some connection to me, my friends, or my existing interests and struggles. I can't think of much that I've listened to that was recommended to me.

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