22 votes

Megathread for news/updates/discussion of Russian invasion of Ukraine - March 11-13

This thread is posted Monday/Wednesday/Friday - please try to post relevant content in here, such as news, updates, opinion articles, etc. Especially significant updates may warrant a separate topic, but most should be posted here.

31 comments

  1. [6]
    Adys
    (edited )
    Link
    Day 16 of the war. My average heart rate has returned to normal. My SO is traumatized and looking for therapists, but she is feeling okay. Her sister is sleeping in her bed; met her yesterday. I...

    Day 16 of the war.
    My average heart rate has returned to normal. My SO is traumatized and looking for therapists, but she is feeling okay. Her sister is sleeping in her bed; met her yesterday. I skated for the first time in weeks… was very difficult for me to go back there but I’m glad I did.
    I've recently completed my first aid courses; next month I'm doing advanced first aid, as well as firearm training. Thirty years of being anti-gun; I don’t even recognise myself anymore.

    Here are the usual links. I will edit this post over the weekend.

    Russia

    Beyond sanctions, a lot of companies have stopped operating in Russia. Too many to list. This is a helpful graphic of which large brands are still operating there (As of the time of this writing, a few more have pulled out, such as Mars).
    Most of them didn't have to pull out. It's helpful to think about why they're doing it.
    For many, it makes economic sense: Russia is becoming a net negative market, where it costs more to operate than you'd get back due to its crashing economy.
    For some others, it's a way of reducing risk. Operating in Russia carries the risks you might lose your employees to a variety of war-related or autocratic hiccups, such as conscription, civil unrest, random jailing, etc.
    Social pressure / fear of being cancelled is of course also part of the equation. But there is a large group that is stopping services in Russia because they genuinely want nothing to do with it, and feel that by staying in the market they're implicitly supporting the war, especially as everybody else is pulling out.

    Some major headlines of the 48 hours:

    Ukraine

    World news


    Putin is worried about his death and goes to a fortune teller. He asks: “What can you tell me about my death?”
    The fortune teller responds: “I see it clearly. You die on a Ukrainian holiday.”
    “How could you possibly know that?”
    “Any day you die will be a Ukrainian holiday”.

    33 votes
    1. [2]
      MimicSquid
      Link Parent
      I just wanted to express my appreciation for the roundup you provide so regularly. It helps me contextualize what's going on, and also helps me not spend hours digging through the news of the day...

      I just wanted to express my appreciation for the roundup you provide so regularly. It helps me contextualize what's going on, and also helps me not spend hours digging through the news of the day myself. I know it's not easy, but I really appreciate it.

      17 votes
      1. Adys
        Link Parent
        ❤️ Thank you. Really appreciated.

        ❤️ Thank you. Really appreciated.

        7 votes
    2. Adys
      Link Parent
      I'm still updating the post with more links but wanted to highlight this one I forgot to post -- https://twitter.com/denysdovhan/status/1501486563842211843 This is a 2h discussion on Twitter...

      I'm still updating the post with more links but wanted to highlight this one I forgot to post -- https://twitter.com/denysdovhan/status/1501486563842211843

      This is a 2h discussion on Twitter Spaces from March 9th, with many testimonies from Ukrainian OSS developers on their reactions, as well as what we can/should do (especially in relation to the OSS community).

      4 votes
    3. Pistos
      Link Parent
      One source I found for that: CTV News article (March 9)

      Canada is sending 50MM USD of military aid (offense and defense)

      One source I found for that: CTV News article (March 9)

      Trudeau also announced Wednesday Canada would send another $50 million in specialized equipment, including Canadian-made cameras for surveillance drones, to help Ukraine defend itself against the Russian invasion.

      Canada previously said it was shipping non-lethal equipment such as body vests and helmets, as well as more than $10 million in weapons such as machine-guns, rocket launchers and hand grenades.

      2 votes
  2. skybrian
    Link
    I don't think this matters much in the short term (does Putin care about demographics?), but a bit of perspective: Why Russia can’t afford to spare its young soldiers anymore [...]

    I don't think this matters much in the short term (does Putin care about demographics?), but a bit of perspective:

    Why Russia can’t afford to spare its young soldiers anymore

    The incomprehensible thing about this war is that Russia is not a belligerent young nation in need of expansion; it is not filled with frustrated young men hoping to assert themselves in conflict, as with Syria, Afghanistan or the world’s other conflict zones; it is already elderly, ageing quickly and in some parts heading for oblivion. Some 20,000 Russian villages have been completely abandoned in recent years, and 36,000 others have fewer than ten inhabitants left and will follow them soon. A third of land once farmed in the former USSR has now been abandoned.

    If the Russians turn out to have no stomach for this fight, it will probably be for the simple fact that the country does not have enough men to spare. The majority of those poor young men killed for Russia’s honour will be their mother’s only son, in many cases their only child; this will make the impact of Putin’s crimes even more devastating for its victims.

    For the same is true of Ukraine; indeed its rate of population decline is even worse. Across huge swathes of the planet, in an ‘infertile crescent’ from Spain to Singapore, the population is aging quite rapidly, and about to begin a steep decline [...]

    [...]

    In the 1930s, when Spain erupted into war, the median age was half of what it is now. In the early 1990s the median age in Bosnia was less than 30, while today it is over 40. When Lebanon’s civil war began the average Lebanese man would have been one of six children and three brothers. Today he is one of just two siblings. That is at least partly why recent political instability and financial crisis has not led to a repeat of the war. Morland cites ‘studies of decade-long periods reveal[ing] that there is almost no civil war in countries where 55 per cent or more of the population is aged over thirty.’

    ‘While it cannot be said that youthfulness “causes” war,’ he writes, ‘or that maturity “causes” peace, a society’s age structure creates background conditions against which other things either do or don’t spark conflict.’ Like with a dry forest, conditions on the ground will determine whether a spark proves disastrous.

    11 votes
  3. skybrian
    Link
    In Ukraine, tech platforms abandon the illusion of neutrality (Washington Post) [...]

    In Ukraine, tech platforms abandon the illusion of neutrality (Washington Post)

    Just two months ago, the privacy-focused search engine DuckDuckGo was trending on Twitter because conservative pundits and activists were hailing it as an unbiased alternative to Google. Specifically, they appreciated that DuckDuckGo surfaced results that espoused a conspiracy theory pushed by a recent guest of the podcaster Joe Rogan, whereas Google’s results were mostly debunkings.

    They may not have realized that DuckDuckGo’s results, which are supplied in large part by Microsoft’s Bing, weren’t “unbiased” on purpose. They were merely less effective than Google’s at surfacing more reliable sources of information. DuckDuckGo knew that, of course. But over the years, it had encouraged such misunderstandings by promoting its search engine as “neutral” and “unbiased.”

    On Friday, DuckDuckGo found itself trending among conservatives again, but this time it was on the wrong end of their ire. The reason: DuckDuckGo CEO and founder Gabriel Weinberg had announced that the search engine would begin down-ranking sites associated with Russian disinformation.

    [...]

    The reality, as all major search engine providers have long privately understood, is that there is no such thing as an unbiased search algorithm. The whole point of search engines is to rank results according to some subjective set of criteria, which typically include things like the relevance of the page, the reputation of the source, and feedback from users and testers about the quality of the results. Surfacing reliable information over disinformation has always been the goal.

    9 votes
  4. moocow1452
    Link
    https://twitter.com/yegg/status/1501716484761997318 Internet has opinions. News at 11.

    Like so many others I am sickened by Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and the gigantic humanitarian crisis it continues to create. #StandWithUkraine️

    At DuckDuckGo, we've been rolling out search updates that down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation.

    https://twitter.com/yegg/status/1501716484761997318

    Internet has opinions. News at 11.

    6 votes
  5. skybrian
    (edited )
    Link
    Putin’s pre-war moves against U.S. tech giants laid groundwork for crackdown on free expression (Washington Post) [...] [...] [...]

    Putin’s pre-war moves against U.S. tech giants laid groundwork for crackdown on free expression (Washington Post)

    Russian agents came to the home of Google’s top executive in Moscow to deliver a frightening ultimatum last September: take down an app that had drawn the ire of Russian President Vladimir Putin within 24 hours or be taken to prison.

    Google quickly moved the woman to a hotel where she checked in under an assumed name and might be protected by the presence of other guests and hotel security, according to people with knowledge of the matter. The same agents — believed by company officials to be from Russia’s FSB, a successor to the KGB intelligence service — then showed up at her room to tell her the clock was still ticking.

    Within hours, an app designed to help Russians register protest votes against Putin could no longer be downloaded from Google or Apple, whose main representative in Moscow faced a similarly harrowing sequence.

    [...]

    Moscow deployed new devices that let it degrade or even block Russians’ access to Facebook and Twitter, imposed fines totaling $120 million on firms accused of defying Kremlin censors, and ordered 13 of the world’s largest technology companies to keep employees in Russia and thus exposed to potential arrest or other punishment for their employers’ actions — a measure that U.S. executives refer to as the “hostage law.”

    [...]

    Even after the threat to its executive, Google kept its employees in Russia and continued to negotiate with the Kremlin on ways to comply with the so-called landing law putting company officials there at risk of arrest or other punishment, according to industry executives familiar with the discussions. Those talks were still underway, one executive said, even after U.S. officials were warning that a Russian invasion of Ukraine was imminent.

    Apple has similarly kept employees in Russia and taken other steps to placate the Kremlin. The company last year began configuring iPhones sold in Russia to promote Kremlin-backed social media companies, enabling users to activate them with a single click. It is an accommodation Apple has rarely made elsewhere and advances Putin’s goal of migrating Russian people to platforms controlled by the government, according to Russia analysts.

    [...]

    The war in Ukraine has scrambled those calculations, and, at least in some corridors of Silicon Valley, led to bouts of second-guessing.

    “There is concern about the employees we have there,” said an executive with one of the companies that has been a target of pressure by the Kremlin. “There may come a point where [my] company decides it’s not worth it anymore and just completely pulls up stakes.” He and others spoke on the condition of anonymity, citing the situation’s sensitivity.

    4 votes
  6. [7]
    vektor
    Link
    Another breakdown of how no-fly-zones get real complicated real quick - I think the Russians might not do us the favor of keeping this on the limited scale as the iraqis did. Part of me really...

    Another breakdown of how no-fly-zones get real complicated real quick - I think the Russians might not do us the favor of keeping this on the limited scale as the iraqis did. Part of me really wants to quicksave and see how this would play out though. If NATO started enforcing a no-fly-zone in Ukraine, sure the Russians would shoot back over Ukraine. But would they actually attack us over NATO territory? With all his military tied down in Ukraine, I can't imagine Putin wants to get Article 5'd.

    Anyway, before we do something silly, consider that we'd have to pretty much eliminate Russian air defenses in Ukraine. Here's an illustration of how that might look. It's probably not totally accurate, but the gist should be about right, assuming Russia brings long-range SAMs in position in/around Ukraine... which I don't doubt.

    3 votes
    1. [3]
      stu2b50
      Link Parent
      I’m pretty sure if “NATO” tried to enforce a no fly zone it would immediately escalate into armed conflict between Russia and NATO, which evidently would not go very well for Russia in...

      I’m pretty sure if “NATO” tried to enforce a no fly zone it would immediately escalate into armed conflict between Russia and NATO, which evidently would not go very well for Russia in conventional warfare but probably not going very well for the planet given circumstances.

      May as well ask the US to enact a no soldier zone over the Ukraine.

      4 votes
      1. [2]
        vektor
        Link Parent
        Yeah, agreed. But I can also imagine that that conflict would be contained to Ukraine: NATO would only have a mandate for attacking aircraft over Ukraine, and Russia would escalate that to all-out...

        I’m pretty sure if “NATO” tried to enforce a no fly zone it would immediately escalate into armed conflict between Russia and NATO

        Yeah, agreed. But I can also imagine that that conflict would be contained to Ukraine: NATO would only have a mandate for attacking aircraft over Ukraine, and Russia would escalate that to all-out war with their pants down if they violated NATO territory. I could imagine that actually staying stable like that, so long as NATO respects Russian territory.

        That said, the potential for escalation is very much there, and the mushroom cloud sky's the limit, so I'd only ever want to consider that as a hypothetical.

        2 votes
        1. stu2b50
          Link Parent
          I don't think so. The moment a NATO aligned military force shoots down Russian air forces in neutral territory is 100% an act of war (and yes, invading a neutral country is an act of war against...

          I don't think so. The moment a NATO aligned military force shoots down Russian air forces in neutral territory is 100% an act of war (and yes, invading a neutral country is an act of war against said neutral country, this is about where Russia draws the line with a greater confrontation with the rest of the world), and Russia would definitely draw the line there, wherever that path may lead them.

          At best we'd immediately get Cuban Missile Crisis but much worse, at worst it'd descend pretty quickly into seeing who's nukes has the least rust.

          3 votes
    2. [3]
      streblo
      Link Parent
      AFAIK the professional version of that simulator is used by a lot of three letter agencies and researchers so I'd say it's probably reasonably accurate although the public version is using...

      Here's an illustration of how that might look. It's probably not totally accurate, but the gist should be about right

      AFAIK the professional version of that simulator is used by a lot of three letter agencies and researchers so I'd say it's probably reasonably accurate although the public version is using publicly available information to model things like radar cross-sections so keep that in mind.

      If the Russian S-400 can truly hit out to 400km I'm struggling to see why they're not able to keep the Ukrainian air force on the ground. American intelligence says Ukraine still has ~80% of its air force intact. An S-400 near Gomel, Belarus would be able to punch out to much of Western Ukraine and certainly blanket Kyiv with the help of AWACS which I'm sure Russia has in the air?

      3 votes
      1. vektor
        Link Parent
        That kinda confuses me too. Seems to me the 400km is a propaganda number. But also, for all I can tell, Ukraine is using its air force incredibly conservatively. Think Fleet-In-Being doctrine,...

        That kinda confuses me too. Seems to me the 400km is a propaganda number.

        But also, for all I can tell, Ukraine is using its air force incredibly conservatively. Think Fleet-In-Being doctrine, basically. At the same time, their own air defenses are apparently solid enough to keep their own air bases intact enough, for the most part.

        3 votes
      2. streblo
        Link Parent
        So I looked into this a little bit, it turns out most of the missiles the S-400 has at its disposal have ranges of <200km. There are S-400 batteries in Belarus. So perhaps they are keeping the...

        So I looked into this a little bit, it turns out most of the missiles the S-400 has at its disposal have ranges of <200km. There are S-400 batteries in Belarus. So perhaps they are keeping the longer range missiles in reserve to deal with NATO if needed?

        2 votes
  7. skybrian
    Link
    Life Underground in Bomb-Shattered Kharkiv

    Life Underground in Bomb-Shattered Kharkiv

    Station staff estimate that between 1,000 and 3,000 people stay in the station each day, down from more than 5,000 people a week ago, since many have managed to flee. Some have lived in these conditions since the first day of the war.

    3 votes
  8. vektor
    Link
    The other day I was wondering about NATO Electronic Warfare capabilities in the air near Ukraine. - I might have found an explanation of how the ground-observation parts of that (GlobalHawk, E-8)...

    The other day I was wondering about NATO Electronic Warfare capabilities in the air near Ukraine. - I might have found an explanation of how the ground-observation parts of that (GlobalHawk, E-8) work. Though of course that doesn't give us a good estimate of range capabilities of this system. 250km is the number the Air Force gives for the E-8. That'd be only halfway from Poland to Kyiv, in a region with very little action. Who knows what the actual real-world number is.

    3 votes
  9. skybrian
    Link
    Despite risks and official warnings, U.S. veterans join Ukrainian war effort

    Despite risks and official warnings, U.S. veterans join Ukrainian war effort

    Perkins emphasized that many volunteers are headed to noncombat roles, underscoring the need for specialties that reach beyond fighting. Some are focused on first aid. Others volunteered to pluck children and the elderly from besieged areas and spirit them to safety across the border.

    3 votes
  10. [2]
    skybrian
    Link
    Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference [...] [...]

    Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference

    Finland's Transport and Communications Agency, Traficom, has issued a public announcement informing of an unusual spike in GPS interference near the country's eastern border.

    The origin of the interference remains unknown, but based on numerous reports submitted to the agency from various sources, it has started during the weekend and is still ongoing.

    [...]

    Notably, on Sunday, several Transaviabaltika planes flying to Savonlinna, Finland, were forced to return to Tallinn, Estonia, due to a failure in the onboard GPS navigation system.

    [...]

    There have been previous reports of navigation problems of several ships in the Black Sea, linking Russia to the 2017 incident.

    In December 2017, Norwegian authorities accused Russia of widespread disruption of GPS navigation during military drills. In November 2018, NATO military exercises in Finland faced similar problems.

    This time, the interference coincided with the meeting between U.S. President Joe Biden and Finland's President Sauli Ninisto. At this time, the country mulls joining NATO, which is not met with enthusiasm in Kremlin.

    According to reports, the interference isn't limited to Finland but also affects Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, and the broader Baltic region.

    3 votes
    1. streblo
      Link Parent
      Somewhat related: Ukraine captured one of Russia’s newest electronic warfare platforms. If they can get it out of the country I’m sure there are some engineers very excited to tear this down.

      Somewhat related: Ukraine captured one of Russia’s newest electronic warfare platforms. If they can get it out of the country I’m sure there are some engineers very excited to tear this down.

      3 votes
  11. skybrian
    Link
    These are the Cluster Munitions Documented by Ukrainian Civilians (Bellingcat) [...]

    These are the Cluster Munitions Documented by Ukrainian Civilians (Bellingcat)

    In recent weeks, Bellingcat has documented these weapons landing near schools, hospitals and in residential areas of Ukrainian cities such as Kharkiv, Odesa and Kherson, seemingly often far away from noticeable military targets.

    [...]

    Identifying the type of cluster munitions being used can, in some cases, help provide clues as to who is using them. How and where they land can also help identify where they are being fired from.

    Below are the types of cluster munition we have seen so far. We encourage readers who have noticed uses of these, or other types of cluster munitions, to reply to our Twitter thread here to help us collect, archive and investigate further.

    2 votes
  12. [2]
    vektor
    (edited )
    Link
    A drone crashed in croatia. Presumed to have come there from Ukraine. Quoted speed info does not match the Ukrainian-employed Bayraktar drone. Like, at all. Since the distance is substantial and...

    A drone crashed in croatia. Presumed to have come there from Ukraine. Quoted speed info does not match the Ukrainian-employed Bayraktar drone. Like, at all. Since the distance is substantial and the drone must be quite large, I think it's safe to say it's not one of the countless civilian drones pressed into Ukrainian service recently. So presumably Russian, or a TU-141? I can't find much info on what kind of drones Russia operates, so hard to say which type, if it's theirs.

    Anyone taking bets on whether NATO electronic warfare led that ship astray? Or just more incompetence?

    (Also, would that be an act of war? Remote-abducting an UAV that is? The Iranians did it once, and their nation is still intact.)

    Edit: Bit more reading and it seems that experts on the ground think it's a TU-141, but with soviet/russian markings? Color me confused.

    2 votes
    1. senko
      Link Parent
      Reportedly it flew over Romania and Hungary before entering Croatia and nobody did anything (either warning or intercept attempt). This poses a question how well the sky over eastern NATO members...

      Reportedly it flew over Romania and Hungary before entering Croatia and nobody did anything (either warning or intercept attempt). This poses a question how well the sky over eastern NATO members is actually watched.

      Unsubstantiated rumors say Hungarians saw it but could not be bothered to inform Croatia. If true, that's even worse.

      There's talk about a second one being spotted in eastern Hungary but is still unaccounted for.

      4 votes
  13. skybrian
    Link
    A top Wikipedia editor has been arrested in Belarus

    A top Wikipedia editor has been arrested in Belarus

    Zerkalo also reports that Berstein had been accused of editing Wikipedia articles about Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. However, none of the information in the Telegram channels clearly specifies exactly what, if anything, Bernstein has officially been charged with. In an activity log of Bernstein’s purported Wikimedia username, you can see that he’s made over 200,000 edits to Russian Wikipedia articles. Currently, his account is described as “blocked indefinitely.”

    In the Russian Wikipedia channel on Telegram, users in Belarus and Russia were also advised to hide personal data and to only edit articles about the war from other accounts.

    2 votes
  14. [3]
    blitz
    Link
    Does anyone know of ways it’s still possible to send money to people in Russia? My grandma is 86 and lives in Moscow, I’d like to make sure she can still afford to buy groceries, and my Russian...

    Does anyone know of ways it’s still possible to send money to people in Russia? My grandma is 86 and lives in Moscow, I’d like to make sure she can still afford to buy groceries, and my Russian language teacher can no longer receive payments through the platform we use.

    1 vote
    1. Adys
      Link Parent
      Is wise helpful? https://wise.com/help/articles/2932351/guide-to-rub-transfers I suspect your best long term bet is to get your Russian acquaintances to have foreign accounts.

      Is wise helpful?

      https://wise.com/help/articles/2932351/guide-to-rub-transfers

      I suspect your best long term bet is to get your Russian acquaintances to have foreign accounts.

      2 votes
  15. skybrian
    Link
    Civilians got through most humanitarian corridors, Ukrainian deputy prime minister says

    Civilians got through most humanitarian corridors, Ukrainian deputy prime minister says

    Nine of the 14 proposed corridors worked as designed, Ukrainian Deputy Prime Minister Iryna Vereshchuk said, a notable development after officials had repeatedly reported that Russia was violating cease-fire agreements designed to provide civilians safe passage out of bombarded cities. Vereshchuk said nearly 13,000 people were moved Saturday, nearly twice the amount who had made it out of a smaller number of cities the day before.

    “Which of course very, very much gives us hope,” she said.

    Nearly 8,000 were evacuated from Sumy in northeastern Ukraine, while the corridors leading from Enerhodar, Vorzel and Irpin were not clear, Vereshchuk said.

    One of the highest-profile evacuation attempts, from the southeastern port city of Mariupol, remains impeded.

    1 vote