21 votes

Megathread for news/updates/discussion of Russian invasion of Ukraine - March 21-22

This thread is posted Monday/Wednesday/Friday - please try to post relevant content in here, such as news, updates, opinion articles, etc. Especially significant updates may warrant a separate topic, but most should be posted here.

33 comments

  1. [3]
    Adys
    (edited )
    Link
    Okay, some of the more interesting links from my 150 tabs, just so i can close a few... How Ukraine swaps living soldiers for dead Russians 20 days in Mariupol: We witnessed Mariupol's agony and...
    8 votes
    1. Adys
      Link Parent
      Twitter thread on the absolutely mind blowing work Wise has been doing to facilitate financial transfers into Ukraine. https://mobile.twitter.com/kaarmann/status/1506259717772951554 This is why I...

      Twitter thread on the absolutely mind blowing work Wise has been doing to facilitate financial transfers into Ukraine.

      https://mobile.twitter.com/kaarmann/status/1506259717772951554

      This is why I love this company, and as a disclaimer, am heavily invested into it.

      3 votes
  2. cfabbro
    (edited )
    Link
    Zelenskyy, in his speech tonight, announced that the Ukrainian government has setup an official site for those wishing to send humanitarian aid to the country. p.s. @Deimos, would it be possible...

    Zelenskyy, in his speech tonight, announced that the Ukrainian government has setup an official site for those wishing to send humanitarian aid to the country.

    Another important news is that an online tool has been created for everyone who can and wants to help with humanitarian goods for Ukraine.

    In the last two weeks alone, our country has received more than 100,000 tons of humanitarian aid.

    These cargoes are quickly distributed through special hubs for the regions. But there are even more appeals. Even more opportunities. Even more work.

    Therefore, to simplify the process as much as possible, the website help.gov.ua was created.

    On the website you can learn how to buy, how to send and whom to address humanitarian aid. This is for everyone who wants to join. For anyone who can help. In Ukraine and in the world. So that the aid is sent constantly, 24/7.

    p.s. @Deimos, would it be possible to have that site added to the self-text for these recurring threads?

    7 votes
  3. cfabbro
    (edited )
    Link
    The story of Voznesensk, where the townsfolk successfully repulsed the Russians after setting a deadly ambush for them, has already been extensively covered by the WSJ, and was submitted to the...

    The story of Voznesensk, where the townsfolk successfully repulsed the Russians after setting a deadly ambush for them, has already been extensively covered by the WSJ, and was submitted to the topic a few days ago. However, the BBC released some pretty incredible video footage of it today, along with interviews with some of the townsfolk, and another (much less detailed) article:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHpX6_B8ArE
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60840081

    5 votes
  4. [4]
    skybrian
    Link
    How Russia’s aggression in Ukraine in 2014 and 2015 is shaping Biden’s actions today (Washington Post) [...] [...] [...]

    How Russia’s aggression in Ukraine in 2014 and 2015 is shaping Biden’s actions today (Washington Post)

    Biden was especially close with former Ukrainian president Petro Poroshenko, whose inauguration he attended in June 2014 and with whom he had at least 50 calls and meetings.

    [...]

    When Russia abruptly seized Crimea in 2014 and instigated a brutal conflict in the country’s east, Biden, a foreign policy veteran, urged a hard-hitting response, which went against Obama’s more cautious instincts.

    [...]

    Biden also pushed for the United States to help train the Ukrainian national guard, an effort that was later expanded as U.S. trainers were dispatched to western Ukraine to help strengthen the capabilities of the Ukrainian military.

    [...]

    Pivotal to Obama’s thinking was a February 2015 visit to the White House by German Chancellor Angela Merkel, who urged him not to send the Javelins. As the leader of a country highly dependent on Russian energy, she was still hopeful, the person said, that further diplomatic efforts would be effective without resorting to a move that could be escalatory.

    4 votes
    1. [3]
      vektor
      Link Parent
      Oh wow. To think Obama and Merkel were so clearly in the wrong foreign-policy wise and Biden had the right idea. Something something hindsight. Maybe I'm letting Biden's elderly exterior affect my...

      Oh wow. To think Obama and Merkel were so clearly in the wrong foreign-policy wise and Biden had the right idea. Something something hindsight. Maybe I'm letting Biden's elderly exterior affect my judgement too much. Far as I can tell, he's been handling the Ukraine situation quite well. Meanwhile, the more conflict-averse politicians like Obama and Merkel; I'm not sure they'd do the right thing.

      10 votes
      1. NoblePath
        Link Parent
        Remember, Biden is old-school cold war, and all in on realpolitik. Humanity is an unruly bunch and hard decisions have to be made sometimes that really, really suck. But no decision in those...

        Remember, Biden is old-school cold war, and all in on realpolitik. Humanity is an unruly bunch and hard decisions have to be made sometimes that really, really suck. But no decision in those sometimes sucks maybe harder.

        6 votes
      2. skybrian
        Link Parent
        In retrospect that's true, but I'm wondering how stable Ukraine looked in 2015. Poroshenko is (was?) apparently a prominent Ukrainian oligarch. From Wikipedia:

        In retrospect that's true, but I'm wondering how stable Ukraine looked in 2015. Poroshenko is (was?) apparently a prominent Ukrainian oligarch. From Wikipedia:

        In 20 December 2021, Poroshenko was accused of state treason, aiding terrorist organizations and financing terrorism due to allegedly organizing the purchase of coal from separatist-controlled areas of Ukraine together with pro-Russian politician Viktor Medvedchuk.[173] If convicted, he faces up to 15 years in prison.

        3 votes
  5. cfabbro
    Link
    Burger King holds a quiet stake in its Russian franchisee even as it publicly distances itself, leaked records show cc: @skybrian since you posted a related article the other day

    Burger King holds a quiet stake in its Russian franchisee even as it publicly distances itself, leaked records show

    Even as Burger King publicly cuts off support to its Russian operation, the fast-food giant has quietly kept a stake in it through an offshore joint venture, leaked documents show.

    Burger King’s parent company, Toronto-based Restaurant Brands International Inc., acknowledged the stake after the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists sent questions about its Russian holdings. It then announced it is trying to sell the shares but said it can’t be done quickly.

    The company owns its stake through a Cyprus-registered joint venture that includes VTB Bank, a sanctioned, state-owned Russian bank, and a Ukrainian investment firm that Kyiv prosecutors once accused of helping Ukraine’s extravagantly corrupt former leader.

    Another shareholder was a Cypriot company belonging to Alexander Kolobov, a Russian restaurant mogul who runs Burger King’s operations in the country.

    The documents, leaked to ICIJ as part of the 2021 Pandora Papers project, show that all four shareholders of the joint venture owned their stakes at times through shell companies in tax havens.

    cc: @skybrian since you posted a related article the other day

    4 votes
  6. [12]
    cmccabe
    Link
    Why Can’t the West Admit That Ukraine Is Winning? https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/03/ukraine-is-winning-war-russia/627121/ (12 footable)

    Why Can’t the West Admit That Ukraine Is Winning?
    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/03/ukraine-is-winning-war-russia/627121/
    (12 footable)

    4 votes
    1. [11]
      skybrian
      Link Parent
      I think this is a mistaken argument about what experts can do for us. Predicting how a war will go is very hard and even experts are often wrong. We don't even know what's going to happen...

      I think this is a mistaken argument about what experts can do for us. Predicting how a war will go is very hard and even experts are often wrong. We don't even know what's going to happen tomorrow, let alone how the war will end. What good is calling a winner when it's not over?

      Instead I like reading status updates by military experts explaining what's happened in the last day or two and putting it into context. Often, they discuss a range of possibilities for what could happen next. This is more interesting than any one-line summary could be.

      6 votes
      1. [5]
        vektor
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        I think rule one of news is important here: The title is always bullshit. The article isn't about how Ukraine will win, but about how experts are systematically wrong about it's chances due to...

        I think rule one of news is important here: The title is always bullshit. The article isn't about how Ukraine will win, but about how experts are systematically wrong about it's chances due to various reasons.

        What I think we can take from that article though is the notion that this war's outcome will be determined by the people fighting it more than by the arms used. Russia went all-in on a bet on low Ukrainian morale, and that's ultimately what went wrong for them. (Which is not at all to suggest military aid is not important.) Morale is hard to quantify and thus often overlooked. This time, morale is certainly an important enough factor to affect the outcome of the war.

        Another point I found interesting:

        The coverage has not always emphasized these trends. As the University of St. Andrews’s Phillips P. O’Brien has argued, pictures of shattered hospitals, dead children, and blasted apartment blocks accurately convey the terror and brutality of this war, but they do not convey its military realities.

        That's something our overly clickbaity and attention-focused news media often get wrong: Let's focus on the scary pictures of war crimes, because they drive engagement. That is part of the reality on the ground, and it's super important we look at that and know the hell-on-earth scenario that is unfolding on our doorstep. But it's not an accurate reflection of how the war is going. The 40-mile convoy made for such a great narrative of operational failures because it was so striking and thumbnailable. It was a rare case of logistics making the news. Frontpage headlines stay far clear of that kind of stuff unless it's this easily marketed. So most of the time, (unless you go dig for it at least a little bit), this kind of info stays buried in favor of refugees, shelling of cities and other humanitarian issues, or more "domestically relevant" issues like military aid or sanctions. I'm not saying we shouldn't talk about these issues, and for those interested there certainly are the sources available to learn about operations in Ukraine. But it is my impression that the general public is likely not well informed about the military situation on the ground in Ukraine.

        5 votes
        1. [4]
          skybrian
          Link Parent
          A lot of this is availability bias. Access to the military situation is restricted for understandable reasons. I don't think there are any reporters embedded with Ukrainian troops? Let alone...

          A lot of this is availability bias. Access to the military situation is restricted for understandable reasons. I don't think there are any reporters embedded with Ukrainian troops? Let alone Russian troops.

          We see things that Ukrainians have decided it's okay for us to see and have to imagine what might be happening that we're not seeing. If it makes Ukrainians look good or Russians look bad it will be shared. Sharing videos of Russian tanks blowing up or of Russian war crimes is good and encouraged.

          There is a lot of open source intelligence from satellites and the like, but it's high-level and abstract, along with bits and pieces that someone shared accidentally. Russian mistakes will be shared widely, of course. Ukrainian mistakes would be irresponsible to share publicly.

          There are also things like official Pentagon statements, but they're going to be careful what they reveal. Detailed intelligence is likely going directly to Ukrainians. They're not going to share stuff like that with us, not should they. An overall summary is good enough. Hopefully they don't shade the truth too much.

          1 vote
          1. [3]
            vektor
            Link Parent
            But there is information out there. The stuff you mentioned. A genuine military expert can take what is available, account for availability bias, and digest that for a general audience. Sketch out...

            But there is information out there. The stuff you mentioned. A genuine military expert can take what is available, account for availability bias, and digest that for a general audience. Sketch out a picture of Russian operations, dive into what we can learn about Russian and Ukrainian tactics. That's entirely possible, but in mass media it's not really represented.

            (I assume you were referring to my last paragraph. If you were referring to my first, let me know.)

            1 vote
            1. [2]
              skybrian
              Link Parent
              Yeah, I guess the question is what "mass media" means to you, and to what extent military experts show up there? I have no real concept of what the mass media is anymore. Since I read it, I can...

              Yeah, I guess the question is what "mass media" means to you, and to what extent military experts show up there?

              I have no real concept of what the mass media is anymore. Since I read it, I can say that Washington Post does have coverage of the military side of the war.

              1 vote
              1. vektor
                Link Parent
                Yeah, the WaPo is the one media outlet that's specifically called out in that article above as providing good coverage of that sort of thing. I can tell you that if I stuck to my regular news...

                Yeah, the WaPo is the one media outlet that's specifically called out in that article above as providing good coverage of that sort of thing. I can tell you that if I stuck to my regular news channels in Germany here, I'd be "completely" in the dark, relative to what OSInt produces.

                2 votes
      2. [2]
        cmccabe
        Link Parent
        Yes, I doubt anyone would disagree with that, and this article was more about the importance of signaling support for Ukraine now and if/after they do win. I’ll post part of that here.

        Yes, I doubt anyone would disagree with that, and this article was more about the importance of signaling support for Ukraine now and if/after they do win. I’ll post part of that here.

        Talk of stalemate obscures the dynamic quality of war. The more you succeed, the more likely you are to succeed; the more you fail, the more likely you are to continue to fail. There is no publicly available evidence of the Russians being able to regroup and resupply on a large scale; there is plenty of evidence to the contrary. If the Ukrainians continue to win, we might see more visible collapses of Russian units and perhaps mass surrenders and desertions. Unfortunately, the Russian military will also frantically double down on the one thing it does well—bombarding towns and killing civilians.

        The Ukrainians are doing their part. Now is the time to arm them on the scale and with the urgency needed, as in some cases we are already doing. We must throttle the Russian economy, increasing pressure on a Russian elite that does not, by and large, buy into Vladimir Putin’s bizarre ideology of “passionarity” and paranoid Great Russian nationalism. We must mobilize official and unofficial agencies to penetrate the information cocoon in which Putin’s government is attempting to insulate the Russian people from the news that thousands of their young men will come home maimed, or in coffins, or not at all from a stupid and badly fought war of aggression against a nation that will now hate them forever. We should begin making arrangements for war-crimes trials, and begin naming defendants, as we should have done during World War II. Above all, we must announce that there will be a Marshall Plan to rebuild the Ukrainian economy, for nothing will boost their confidence like the knowledge that we believe in their victory and intend to help create a future worth having for a people willing to fight so resolutely for its freedom.

        1 vote
        1. skybrian
          Link Parent
          Yes, there is a change of subject between the beginning and end of this quote. The first paragraph is about whether observers can predict what's going to happen. Of course, the best way to falsify...

          Yes, there is a change of subject between the beginning and end of this quote. The first paragraph is about whether observers can predict what's going to happen. Of course, the best way to falsify a prediction is to act in a way that changes the game. But the reports I read aren't saying that a stalemate can't be broken, but rather that the Ukrainian army seems to have stopped the Russian advance.

          In the second paragraph, it's talking about what government policy should be. This isn't up to military analysts.

          There used to be a clear distinction between the news and opinion sections of newspapers and I think that's been lost? This article talks about what opinion columnists should be advocating for, I suppose. That's a distinct question from whether they are doing a good job of explaining what's happening.

          1 vote
      3. [3]
        HotPants
        Link Parent
        Would you mind sharing? Who do you follow?

        Would you mind sharing? Who do you follow?

        1 vote
        1. skybrian
          Link Parent
          Sure, here are some: Institute for the Study of War - A Washington-based think tank. Jomini of the West - No idea who this is, but they write interesting updates. Mick Ryan - a retired Australian...

          Sure, here are some:

          3 votes
        2. skybrian
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          Also, I see there are detailed occasional military updates at Critical Threats. (This is a project of the American Enterprise Institute, which is a right-wing think tank. However, I doubt that...

          Also, I see there are detailed occasional military updates at Critical Threats.

          (This is a project of the American Enterprise Institute, which is a right-wing think tank. However, I doubt that makes much difference for Ukraine war coverage.)

          2 votes
  7. cfabbro
    Link
    Did Russia just admit to 10,000 deaths?

    Did Russia just admit to 10,000 deaths?

    We reported earlier that our colleagues at BBC Russian had compiled a list of 557 confirmed Russian military deaths in the Ukraine invasion, mentioning that Russia's defence ministry has so far only once provided fatality figures - 498 deaths as of 2 March.

    All that suddenly changed in the last few hours, or so it seemed...

    The staunchly pro-Kremlin newspaper Komsomolskaya Pravda (KP) published an article quoting the ministry as saying 9,861 Russian servicemen had died, a figure which exceeds even US intelligence estimates of Russian fatalities.

    It gave the number of wounded as 16,153.

    Minutes later, this part of the article disappeared from the page, but we were able to take screen grabs of the relevant paragraphs.

    KP editor Vladimir Sungorkin subsequently told the BBC the information had been the result of a hack, and said the paper will post an explanation later.

    4 votes
  8. skybrian
    Link
    Russian air force action increases despite flood of antiaircraft missiles into Ukraine [...] [...]

    Russian air force action increases despite flood of antiaircraft missiles into Ukraine

    The air war over Ukraine appears to have entered a new phase, with the Russian air force boosting the number of flights it makes per day by 50 percent and deploying an increasing array of Russian drones and munitions over the battlefield, according to U.S. defense officials and military analysts.

    [...]

    While there are gaps in information, it appears that Ukraine has concentrated the high-power air defenses it has in a handful of locations, including the capital, Kyiv, and the second-largest city, Kharkiv, Kofman said. That has left Russia more free to carry out an increasing number of airstrikes around the southern port city of Mariupol, where pitched urban combat is ongoing and Russia has its sights set on what would be its first strategic victory in the war.

    [...]

    The vast quantities of MANPADS that Ukraine now possesses have created challenges for Russia in flying helicopters and low-flying jets, but it appears to have adjusted by often staying out of their range.

    A “good number” of Russian flights in the war never leave Russian or Belarusian airspace, the senior defense official said, speaking on the condition of anonymity under ground rules set by the Pentagon. Russia has launched airstrikes multiple times on Ukraine from outside Ukrainian airspace, including with cruise missiles from long-range bombers on a military training center in Yavoriv, in western Ukraine, U.S. defense officials said. Other Russian aircraft venture into Ukrainian airspace only for short periods.

    4 votes
  9. [3]
    NoblePath
    Link
    While there seems little news coming from the region at the moment, perhaps it is time to consider that there is more nuance in the politics around this war. Please, by no means, take from this...

    While there seems little news coming from the region at the moment, perhaps it is time to consider that there is more nuance in the politics around this war. Please, by no means, take from this that I am sympathetic to Putin or Russian aggression and Imperialism. But neither am I the greatest fan of American Imperialism, and am skeptical of American-based political involvement around the world.

    As such, apparently Ukraine has been the "beneficiary" of American efforts.

    From the Guardian some years ago:

    Ukraine, traditionally passive in its politics, has been mobilised by the young democracy activists and will never be the same again.
    But while the gains of the orange-bedecked "chestnut revolution" are Ukraine's, the campaign is an American creation, a sophisticated and brilliantly conceived exercise in western branding and mass marketing that, in four countries in four years, has been used to try to salvage rigged elections and topple unsavoury regimes.

    This is referring to the Orange Revolution.

    3 votes
    1. [2]
      Adys
      Link Parent
      There's a lot of news coming from the region, actually. I have over 150 tabs open, purely war-related. I've had to step away from doing the updates on Tildes as it was fucking me up, but I can...

      There's a lot of news coming from the region, actually. I have over 150 tabs open, purely war-related. I've had to step away from doing the updates on Tildes as it was fucking me up, but I can guarantee you, it's active as ever.

      10 votes
      1. NoblePath
        Link Parent
        Thanks for keeping the faith.

        Thanks for keeping the faith.

        2 votes
  10. cmccabe
    Link
    This is not directly Russia/Ukraine related, but still relevant to how Putin continues attempting to fortify his power within Russia. Alexei Navalny faces 13 more years in jail after court finds...

    This is not directly Russia/Ukraine related, but still relevant to how Putin continues attempting to fortify his power within Russia.

    Alexei Navalny faces 13 more years in jail after court finds him guilty of fraud
    https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/22/alexei-navalny-13-years-more-jail-fraud

    3 votes
  11. [2]
    skybrian
    (edited )
    Link
    'They own the long clock’ — How the Russian military is starting to adapt in Ukraine (Task & Purpose) A short article warning of overconfidence. The enemy is intelligent (sometimes) and will...

    'They own the long clock’ — How the Russian military is starting to adapt in Ukraine (Task & Purpose)

    A short article warning of overconfidence. The enemy is intelligent (sometimes) and will adapt.

    (Though, of course, the Ukrainians can adapt too. Why don't the Stingers have thermal sights?)

    3 votes
    1. skybrian
      Link Parent
      Another story from the same publication: An Army vet’s realization in Ukraine: ‘So horrible or heartbreaking that you can’t continue’

      Another story from the same publication:

      An Army vet’s realization in Ukraine: ‘So horrible or heartbreaking that you can’t continue’

      His departure coincides with upheaval within the international legion, which was intended to allow foreigners to fight the Russians. But Task & Purpose correspondent Andrew Milburn has revealed that Ukraine abruptly discharged the first volunteers who signed up for the unit after their mediocre performance in battle.

      Now the Ukrainians are rethinking how they recruit foreigners by focusing on highly trained combat veterans, such as snipers, a Ukrainian general officer told Task & Purpose on condition of anonymity.

      3 votes
  12. [2]
    streblo
    Link
    Terrible stories coming out from Mariupol. Slightly graphic text/images.

    Terrible stories coming out from Mariupol. Slightly graphic text/images.

    1 vote
    1. nukeman
      Link Parent
      I didn’t know Black Rifle Coffee Company had a web magazine.

      I didn’t know Black Rifle Coffee Company had a web magazine.

      1 vote