13 votes

Weekly megathread for news/updates/discussion of Russian invasion of Ukraine - October 13

This thread is posted weekly on Thursday - please try to post relevant content in here, such as news, updates, opinion articles, etc. Especially significant updates may warrant a separate topic, but most should be posted here.

If you'd like to help support Ukraine, please visit the official site at https://help.gov.ua/ - an official portal for those who want to provide humanitarian or financial assistance to people of Ukraine, businesses or the government at the times of resistance against the Russian aggression.

15 comments

  1. [2]
    cmccabe
    Link
    ‘The hell with it’: Elon Musk says SpaceX will fund Starlink internet in Ukraine...

    ‘The hell with it’: Elon Musk says SpaceX will fund Starlink internet in Ukraine
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/15/the-hell-with-it-elon-musk-says-spacex-will-fund-starlink-internet-in-ukraine

    Well this was all a nice reminder of what you risk when you rely on the whims of the billionaire class.

    9 votes
    1. skybrian
      Link Parent
      Yes, but on the other hand, SpaceX exists because of one of those whims. A committee of sensible people probably wouldn't have funded it, and Ukraine wouldn't have StarLink at all.

      Yes, but on the other hand, SpaceX exists because of one of those whims. A committee of sensible people probably wouldn't have funded it, and Ukraine wouldn't have StarLink at all.

      5 votes
  2. [5]
    skybrian
    Link
    Musk threatens to stop funding Starlink internet Ukraine relies on in war (Washington Post) [...] [...] [...] [...] [...]

    Musk threatens to stop funding Starlink internet Ukraine relies on in war (Washington Post)

    Elon Musk said Friday that his space company could not keep funding the Starlink satellite service that has kept Ukraine and its military online during the war, and he suggested he was pulling free internet after a Ukrainian ambassador insulted him on Twitter.

    [...]

    Musk, the world’s richest man by Bloomberg estimates, tweeted from the United States that his company SpaceX does not want reimbursement for its past expenses in helping Ukraine. But, he wrote, it “also cannot fund the existing system indefinitely and send several thousand more terminals that have data usage up to 100X greater than typical households. This is unreasonable.”

    [...]

    While SpaceX at points has portrayed Starlink service in Ukraine as an entirely charitable venture, it has not, in fact, covered the entire cost. The Post reported in April that the U.S. government had quietly paid millions to SpaceX for equipment and transportation costs.

    A senior adviser to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky sounded a conciliatory note Friday and expressed confidence that a deal would be reached to maintain Starlink service.

    “Let’s be honest. Like it or not, @elonmusk helped us survive the most critical moments of war,” adviser Mykhailo Podolyak tweeted. “Business has the right to its own strategies.” He added that Ukraine “will find a solution to keep Starlink working. We expect that the company will provide stable connection till the end of negotiations.”

    [...]

    Before the peacemaking foray that set off an online firestorm, and Musk’s latest tweets, SpaceX had already warned the U.S. Department of Defense in a letter dated Sept. 8 that it could no longer afford funding the Starlink system in Ukraine, CNN first reported Thursday.

    The report said the letter asked the Pentagon to cover a new request from Ukraine and costs for the rest of the year, acknowledging that others, including Kyiv’s allies, had also helped fund the terminals sent so far.

    A senior U.S. defense official confirmed late Thursday that Musk had privately urged the Pentagon to pay up. The official said there was no comparable system with such widespread applicability. The bill is likely to run into the hundreds of millions of dollars over the next year, the official said, speaking on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue.

    [...]

    Musk said Friday that the Starlink operation in Ukraine had cost SpaceX $80 million and that the price would reach $100 million by the end of the year, including the expense of providing terminals, maintaining satellites and ground stations, and other items. “We’ve also had to defend against cyberattacks & jamming, which are getting harder,” he wrote.

    [...]

    The Ukrainian military has become dependent on Starlink to quickly share information with senior commanders. Roman Kovalenko, a company commander in the 72nd Mechanized Brigade fighting on the front line in the eastern Donetsk region, said units use radio less now because they’re not as dependable.

    “I honestly have no idea how the communication between us will look like here without any Starlink service,” he said.

    The satellite internet is especially helpful for the Ukrainian military’s expanded use of drones. With a stable connection, air reconnaissance units can watch their drone feed, allowing artillery forces to identify targets and correct their fire in real time. Before that, Kovalenko said, infantry soldiers in trenches had to locate the artillery strikes themselves, which was less effective and put them in danger.

    “I’d say the effectiveness of our work without Starlink would drop something like 60 percent or more,” Kovalenko said. “And we would have to use more ammunition, which we are now saving.”

    3 votes
    1. [4]
      Adys
      Link Parent
      Musk is going to lose battle after battle, here. He’s a smart dude, but … what’s the name of that effect, whereby smart people think their intelligence in one domain translates to other domains?...

      Musk is going to lose battle after battle, here. He’s a smart dude, but … what’s the name of that effect, whereby smart people think their intelligence in one domain translates to other domains?

      I’ve followed Elon for a long time now and I used to have a lot of respect for him, primarily because he really is (was?) one of the most adept people in his domain. But he’s absolutely losing it. The Twitter thing, the crazy ramblings, the descent into conspiracies, and now Ukraine.

      Anyway, Starlink is absolutely not under his control. He has a lot of influence over it but he is not the final decision maker, and much better equipped people are at the helm. If he pulls funding of any sorts, first of all I doubt it will be over any political stuff (rather than “Twitter is really fucking with my wallet”), and second, I see the US govt stepping in, in a way that would not be good for spacex.

      7 votes
      1. [3]
        skybrian
        Link Parent
        Well, the Twitter thing is weird. I don't know what he was thinking on that one. It's pretty much gone as badly for him as Matt Levine said it would. But I don't know why you say "Starlink is...

        Well, the Twitter thing is weird. I don't know what he was thinking on that one. It's pretty much gone as badly for him as Matt Levine said it would.

        But I don't know why you say "Starlink is absolutely not under his control." He's the CEO of SpaceX, so it seems like he speaks for SpaceX unless the board of directors removes him, which is unlikely.

        I don't know what contracts SpaceX signed with either Ukraine or the US government as a defense contractor, but unless their lawyers are really bad, I doubt there's anything requiring them to provide service for free? This is all about negotiating the price. (Giving it away at first seems like a smart move in retrospect since they've proven Starlink's unique capabilties. Maybe a little too clever, though?)

        The US government could probably force the issue using the Defense Production Act, but I would guess that the courts would also make sure they pay SpaceX a lot of money as a defense contractor, if it came to that.

        2 votes
        1. [2]
          Adys
          Link Parent
          Gwynne Shotwell is in charge of SpaceX. Musk is CEO but my understanding is he's not the one calling the shots. Someone more familiar with SpaceX than I am can explain in more details, but that's...

          Gwynne Shotwell is in charge of SpaceX. Musk is CEO but my understanding is he's not the one calling the shots. Someone more familiar with SpaceX than I am can explain in more details, but that's what I know to date.

          2 votes
          1. skybrian
            Link Parent
            Gwynne Shotwell is "President & COO" and reports to Musk who is the CEO. (See the org chart.) Presumably that means he could overrule her decisions, and he's known to meddle. But they probably...

            Gwynne Shotwell is "President & COO" and reports to Musk who is the CEO. (See the org chart.) Presumably that means he could overrule her decisions, and he's known to meddle. But they probably agree on many things.

            3 votes
  3. skybrian
    Link
    Russia is grabbing men off the street to fight in Ukraine (Washington Post) […]

    Russia is grabbing men off the street to fight in Ukraine (Washington Post)

    In cities and towns across Russia, men of fighting age are going into hiding to avoid the officials who are seizing them and sending them to fight in Ukraine.

    Police and military press-gangs in recent days have snatched men off the streets and outside Metro stations. They’ve lurked in apartment building lobbies to hand out military summonses. They’ve raided office blocks and hostels. They’ve invaded cafes and restaurants, blocking the exits.

    […]

    The raids in Moscow and St. Petersburg have been deeply controversial, in part because the cities have suffered comparatively few casualties in Ukraine. The burden of fighting has largely been borne by small ethnic groups and poorly educated men from impoverished rural regions.

    3 votes
  4. [4]
    cfabbro
    (edited )
    Link
    Russian warplane crashes near apartment building, killing 13 (AP) The photo accompanying the article is crazy: https://storage.googleapis.com/afs-prod/media/fbd8f4064130443db50911e7b98dc70c/1000.jpeg

    Russian warplane crashes near apartment building, killing 13 (AP)

    A Russian warplane crashed Monday into a residential area in a Russian city on the Sea of Azov after suffering engine failure, leaving at least 13 people dead, three of whom died when they jumped from upper floors of a nine-story apartment building to escape a massive blaze.

    A Su-34 bomber came down in the port city of Yeysk after one of its engines caught fire during takeoff for a training mission, the Russian Defense Ministry said. It said both crew members bailed out safely, but the plane crashed into a residential area, causing a fire as tons of fuel exploded on impact.

    After hours of combing through the charred debris of the building, authorities said 13 residents, including three children, were found dead. Another 19 were hospitalized with injuries.

    Vice governor of the region, Anna Menkova, said three of the four victims died when they jumped from the upper floors of the building in a desperate attempt to escape the flames, according to the RIA-Novosti news agency.

    The authorities reserved emergency rooms at local hospitals and scrambled medical aircraft. Over 500 residents were evacuated and provided with temporary accommodations.

    The Kremlin said Russian President Vladimir Putin was informed about the crash and dispatched the ministers of health and emergencies along with the local governor to the site. Yeysk, a city of 90,000, is home to a big Russian air base.

    Surveillance cam videos posted on Russian messaging app channels showed a plane exploding in a giant fireball. Other videos showed an apartment building engulfed by flames and loud bangs from the apparent detonation of the warplane’s weapons.

    The Su-34 is a supersonic twin-engine bomber equipped with sophisticated sensors and weapons that has been a key strike component of the Russian air force. The aircraft has seen wide use during the war in Syria and the fighting in Ukraine.

    Monday’s accident marked the 10th reported non-combat crash of a Russian warplane since Moscow sent its troops into Ukraine on Feb. 24. Military experts have noted that as the number of Russian military flights increased sharply during the fighting, so did the crashes.

    The photo accompanying the article is crazy:
    https://storage.googleapis.com/afs-prod/media/fbd8f4064130443db50911e7b98dc70c/1000.jpeg

    3 votes
    1. [3]
      mycketforvirrad
      Link Parent
      Your headline and body text don't match the article, which reference 13 dead.

      Your headline and body text don't match the article, which reference 13 dead.

      3 votes
      1. [2]
        cfabbro
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        Oh, I read the article late last night when it still only said 4 and then I left the article open to remind myself to submit it here. I never refreshed the page before submitting it though, but AP...

        Oh, I read the article late last night when it still only said 4 and then I left the article open to remind myself to submit it here. I never refreshed the page before submitting it though, but AP had clearly updated it since then. Thanks for the heads up. Fixed.

        2 votes
        1. mycketforvirrad
          Link Parent
          Thought it might have been a cache issue. 😉 No worries.

          Thought it might have been a cache issue. 😉 No worries.

          2 votes
  5. cmccabe
    Link
    Iran calls Western allegations that it supplied Russia with drones ‘disappointing,’ calls for peaceful resolution of war...

    Iran calls Western allegations that it supplied Russia with drones ‘disappointing,’ calls for peaceful resolution of war
    https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/19/iran-denies-allegations-that-it-supplied-russia-with-drones.html

    One of the underlying anxieties of Russia's invasion of Ukraine is how it might spill over into a broader war involving more countries. After Ukraine's successful strike on the Crimea bridge, Russia had a sharp shift in tactics, involving more much missile and drone strikes on Ukrainian cities -- notably involving a large number of what the press has been describing as drones of obviously Iranian origin. At this point Iran seems to be using the Russian response of deny, deny, deny.

    In recent days, Moscow has carried out several devastating missile and drone strikes against what Ukraine said were civilian targets as well as critical infrastructure such as energy facilities. The Kremlin has repeatedly denied that it uses Iranian-made drones in Ukraine and that it targets residential and other high civilian areas.

    ...

    The three nations — also members of the original 2015 Iran nuclear deal — say that by providing Russia with drones Iran has violated a U.N. Security Council resolution. The resolution, known as 2231, prohibits the transfer “of all items, materials, equipments and goods and technology” from Iran to another nation unless it is approved in advance by the U.N. Security Council on a case-by-case basis.

    ...

    Iran’s U.N. representative sharply denied Western allegations that Tehran supplied Moscow with a fleet of drones for use in Ukraine.

    ...

    He added that the claims are “unfounded and unsubstantiated” and said that the West was mounting a disinformation campaign against his country. Iravani, who took no questions from reporters, also said the baseless allegations were “disappointing.”

    2 votes
  6. [2]
    Fal
    Link
    Ukraine looks anxiously towards its northern border, and a fresh influx of Russian troops into Belarus
    1 vote
    1. Adys
      Link Parent
      CNN is rehashing old stuff. That article is just noise IMO. Via October 14 ISW report: Oct 16 references this article as well: Belarus says it will host just under 9,000 Russian troops - Reuters

      CNN is rehashing old stuff. That article is just noise IMO.

      Via October 14 ISW report:

      Ukrainian and Western officials continue to reiterate that they have observed no indicators of preparations for a Belarusian invasion of Ukraine, despite alarmist reports in the Belarusian information space that President Alexander Lukashenko has introduced a “counter-terrorist operation” regime.[8] Belarusian Foreign Minister Vladimir Makei gave an interview to Russian outlet Izvestia on October 14 wherein he claimed that Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko introduced a ”counter-terrorist operation regime” after a meeting with several law enforcement agencies.[9] Makei cited concern that unspecified neighboring states were planning provocations related to seizure of areas of Belarusian territory.[10] This claim was amplified by several Ukrainian, Belarusian, and Russian sources, who claimed that as part of the ”counter-terrorist operation regime,” Lukashenko began deploying groups of Belarusian forces supplemented by Russian troops.[11] Belarusian opposition outlet Nasha Niva claimed that as part of this regime, Belarusian forces are conducting covert mobilization under the guise of combat readiness checks.[12] However, Lukashenko emphasized in a comment to the press that there has been no introduction of a ”counter-terrorist operation regime” and that he has instead introduced a ”regime of a heightened terrorist threat.”[13]

      Despite the contradicting claims of an escalated preparatory regime in Belarus, White House National Security Council spokesperson John Kirby told Voice of America that there are no indicators that Belarusian troops are preparing to enter Ukraine.[14] ISW continues to assess that joint Belarusian and Russian forces will not invade Ukraine from the territory of Belarus. Russian forces continue to attrit their own combat capabilities as they impale themselves on attempts to capture tiny villages in Donbas and simply do not have the combat-effective mechanized troops available to supplement a Belarusian incursion into northern Ukraine and certainly not to conduct a mechanized drive on Kyiv. As ISW has previously reported, Lukashenko remains unlikely to enter the war on Russia’s behalf due to the domestic risks this would pose for the continued viability of his regime, as well as the low quality of Belarusian Armed Forces.[15] Russian President Vladimir Putin is more likely weaponizing concerns over Belarusian involvement in the war to pin Ukrainian troops against the northern Ukraine-Belarus border.

      Oct 16 references this article as well: Belarus says it will host just under 9,000 Russian troops - Reuters

      7 votes