68 votes

Pat Robertson, broadcaster who helped make religion central to GOP politics, dies at 93

34 comments

  1. [3]
    drannex
    Link
    I was brought up to never celebrate a death, but... Happy Pride everyone.

    I was brought up to never celebrate a death, but...

    Happy Pride everyone.

    74 votes
    1. Good_Apollo
      Link Parent
      Honestly never understood that. Why should a dead person get more respect than all the people they harmed while alive? Like why shouldn't we celebrate the death of people who only brought pain and...

      Honestly never understood that. Why should a dead person get more respect than all the people they harmed while alive?

      Like why shouldn't we celebrate the death of people who only brought pain and misery to the world? That polite society crap doesn't fly with me unless it's warranted.

      18 votes
    2. rosco
      Link Parent
      If we could get Pat and Kissinger in the same year, that would be cause for a reeeeeally exciting Pride!

      If we could get Pat and Kissinger in the same year, that would be cause for a reeeeeally exciting Pride!

      5 votes
  2. vord
    Link
    Good riddance. There are few I would classify as monsters. But Pat was pretty damn close.

    Good riddance. There are few I would classify as monsters. But Pat was pretty damn close.

    44 votes
  3. [2]
    rish
    Link
    Didn't know who this guy was before today. And I wish it remained that way. No one seems to like the guy at all. But the harsh truth is he had a well good life and faced zero repercussions. It's...

    Didn't know who this guy was before today. And I wish it remained that way. No one seems to like the guy at all. But the harsh truth is he had a well good life and faced zero repercussions. It's just sad. There is nothing positive in this.

    Life is unfair.

    25 votes
    1. drp
      Link Parent
      I’d say that, given his terrible legacy, his no longer physically existing is more positive than if he were to continue to exist to contribute to that hate. That said, yes: life is indeed unfair.

      There is nothing positive in this.

      I’d say that, given his terrible legacy, his no longer physically existing is more positive than if he were to continue to exist to contribute to that hate. That said, yes: life is indeed unfair.

      5 votes
  4. [6]
    Indrid
    Link
    I was raised in one of those fanatical evangelical households where Christian media was all we watched and listened to. Pat Robertson is on my personal shortlist of people whose voices I heard...

    I was raised in one of those fanatical evangelical households where Christian media was all we watched and listened to. Pat Robertson is on my personal shortlist of people whose voices I heard endlessly as a child and now have a visceral reaction to (shoutout to the singularly awful James Dobson who probably makes #1 on that list). I've deconverted and am proud of myself for the work I've done to thoroughly deprogram and address the religious trauma I experienced. I don't celebrate Pat Robertson's death, but I certainly won't mourn him...I'll save my mourning for the millions of people harmed and/or brainwashed by his vile, hateful rhetoric.

    22 votes
    1. [5]
      Comment deleted by author
      Link Parent
      1. [3]
        Kenny
        Link Parent
        The book of Hebrews addresses this line of questioning pretty directly. Also, in Romans 3:21-26 Paul talks about how Christ was the method of OT's salvation.

        The second time I read the Bible through was trying to find Jesus in the Old Testament - it had bothered me - at what exact moment did the Jews, who were previously God's Chosen people, have to convert to Christianity to avoid hell? So I read the OT looking for Jesus to know what they would have been responsible to know. But mainly what I found was that in the same way that I'd stopped believing in Santa Claus, I stopped believing in Jesus…

        The book of Hebrews addresses this line of questioning pretty directly. Also, in Romans 3:21-26 Paul talks about how Christ was the method of OT's salvation.

        21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— 22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. 26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

        3 votes
        1. [3]
          Comment deleted by author
          Link Parent
          1. Kenny
            (edited )
            Link Parent
            I’m not here to convince you on your belief, I agree that if while going through the exercise you stopped believing then it becomes moot. However, my references in the new testament are...

            I’m not here to convince you on your belief, I agree that if while going through the exercise you stopped believing then it becomes moot.

            However, my references in the new testament are essentially exegesis of Old Testament theology. They’re doing the work that you set out to do. The individual who wrote Hebrews and Paul, who wrote Romans, were Jews themselves. Paul was a high priest before converting.

            They’re not adding anything beyond the Old Testament theology other than clarifying the mystery that was revealed with Christ’s death and resurrection.

            2 votes
          2. drp
            Link Parent
            Wait, you mean this reply, stating for a fact that I own the entire universe and everything in it, cannot and does not prove itself to be true? what the hell

            …you cannot use the New Testament to prove the New Testament is legit.

            Wait, you mean this reply, stating for a fact that I own the entire universe and everything in it, cannot and does not prove itself to be true?

            what the hell

            1 vote
      2. drp
        Link Parent
        Nearly exactly the same on all counts here, have my vote.

        Nearly exactly the same on all counts here, have my vote.

        1 vote
    2. drp
      Link Parent
      I was raised pretty much exactly the same, am definitely familiar with the dramatis personae you mention, and agree wholeheartedly with your sentiments.

      I was raised pretty much exactly the same, am definitely familiar with the dramatis personae you mention, and agree wholeheartedly with your sentiments.

  5. [2]
    fineboi
    Link
    Growing up in a Christian household where his programming was on the “allowed list” of items I could watch on TV; i realize i am still trying to reprogram myself from being indoctrinated and brain...

    Growing up in a Christian household where his programming was on the “allowed list” of items I could watch on TV; i realize i am still trying to reprogram myself from being indoctrinated and brain washed to hate myself and that God hated me. There is no such thing as love the person and hate the sin. When what is being perceived as sin is the make up of who the person is. I am glad he no longer has an outlet to spill his hate.

    13 votes
    1. Indrid
      Link Parent
      This is so familiar to me & I just wanted you to know that I empathize. Although I'm no longer a Christian, & thus don't believe in the Bible or any of its teachings, I do still find some comfort...

      This is so familiar to me & I just wanted you to know that I empathize. Although I'm no longer a Christian, & thus don't believe in the Bible or any of its teachings, I do still find some comfort in the idea of caring for that kid-version of me that was a believer. It's a little hard for me to put into words -- but I can feel a sense of healing when I imagine myself caring for someone (my past self) who has been hurt and who needs that hypocrisy gently pointed out. For example, Pat Robertson (and others) say that queer people like me are fundamentally broken and go against God's design. "But," I can remind that hurt kid version of myself, "I thought I was made in God's image? I was made this way, so how can I be broken?"

      The good news for people like us who are healing from this shit is that, at least in my experience, extreme beliefs always break down under scrutiny -- which makes the work of deconstruction/deconversion a lot easier. Folks like Pat Robertson have profited off amplifying the parts of the Bible that support the us-versus-them narrative (and that subsequently drives donations). Congrats to you on escaping; just know you're not alone.

      7 votes
  6. 0x29A
    Link
    I still get mail for my late grandmother from the 700 Club. Thankfully she didn't let it rot her brain completely and in her later years found him questionable too (that's the best I could hope...

    I still get mail for my late grandmother from the 700 Club. Thankfully she didn't let it rot her brain completely and in her later years found him questionable too (that's the best I could hope for since she was very religious)

    Whether or not you think this statement is celebratory: the world is better off without him

    8 votes
  7. [16]
    zhanteimi
    Link
    Do we here on Tildes celebrate the deaths of people we dislike the way they do over at Reddit?

    Do we here on Tildes celebrate the deaths of people we dislike the way they do over at Reddit?

    6 votes
    1. [8]
      AugustusFerdinand
      Link Parent
      No, we do not. That said, Pat Robertson is not merely someone "we dislike," he is someone with a wikipedia page dedicated to his atrocious views that is longer than the page dedicated to him. He...

      No, we do not.

      That said, Pat Robertson is not merely someone "we dislike," he is someone with a wikipedia page dedicated to his atrocious views that is longer than the page dedicated to him. He is someone that has, if not steered, guided a lot of the rhetoric that seeks to destroy the lives of millions. He used his platform to state and convince others that terrorism and murder were the victim's fault.
      If his religion is true and his god is just, then there simply is no other place he can be that isn't the hell he has stated so many others are damned to experience for eternity.

      Not to mince words, Pat Robertson is an utter and irredeemable piece of shit and that's an insult to excrement itself.
      I'm not going to celebrate the death of anyone, but I'm also not going to act like the world didn't just get a little bit better when he stopped wasting oxygen.

      22 votes
      1. [7]
        gowestyoungman
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        I only know of him from The 700 Club, which was occasionally on our television when I was younger, but not a big part of our lives. Thus, I was pretty surprised at the number of controversial...

        I only know of him from The 700 Club, which was occasionally on our television when I was younger, but not a big part of our lives.

        Thus, I was pretty surprised at the number of controversial things he did and said on that wiki page. I think when religion and politics become so intertwined its bad for both. And I definitely believe that the 'prosperity gospel' that has some tv evangelists like him owning vast wealth is in direct contradiction to what Jesus taught.

        I just hope for a nuanced discourse on someone like him on Tilde. I saw the announcement on reddit and before I even read the comments there I knew how hateful they would be. I wasnt disappointed. At least here, people explain why they feel the way they feel without just trying to come up with the most vitriolic insults they can think of.

        5 votes
        1. [5]
          Good_Apollo
          Link Parent
          But why would you be surprised that people hated someone who actively made people's lives worse and who's entire existence was predicated on sucking up wealth for himself under the guise of...

          But why would you be surprised that people hated someone who actively made people's lives worse and who's entire existence was predicated on sucking up wealth for himself under the guise of religion? That's pretty disgusting, I'd say.

          What nuance are you looking for? It's just odd to me that some people will do anything to glean something defensible about someone who so obviously deserves to be reviled.

          5 votes
          1. [4]
            gowestyoungman
            Link Parent
            Im not surprised. After years on reddit, and social media, Im well aware of how negatively MOST of the posts swing toward the negative on anyone or anything that is strongly Christian. That's not...

            But why would you be surprised that people hated someone who actively made people's lives worse and who's entire existence was predicated on sucking up wealth for himself under the guise of religion?

            Im not surprised. After years on reddit, and social media, Im well aware of how negatively MOST of the posts swing toward the negative on anyone or anything that is strongly Christian. That's not new.

            But if you're actually asking that in good faith, I would say that Pat Robertson made SOME people's lives worse, but that the vast majority of people who knew him through his outreach were admirers and followers because they benefited from what he offered. There are detractors for every online minister (although far fewer for someone like Billy Graham) and I cant say Im a fan of mega ministries or online evangelism, but that doesnt mean what they did was all terrible for the world.

            I think for literally millions of people who watched The 700 Club, his program was a source of encouragement in their faith. That included supporting his outreach ministry Operation Blessing whose express purpose for 40 years is to alleviate human suffering around the world through hunger relief, clean water projects, disaster relief and medical services. I also understand that through his ministry he also supported other humanitarian organizations like Samaritan's Purse, that does the same kind of humanitarian work. The kids at my former school used to pack shoeboxes with gifts to be sent to poor countries and distributed to kids at Christmas. It was a very practical way for kids to help other kids.

            So, its quite easy for people to crap all over large Christian ministers and the work they do. But this guy ran his program all over the world and Im quite sure he has helped thousands of people, if not hundreds of thousands with humanitarian aid. He walked the talk that many don't.

            I also might point out, no matter whether you believe in the Christian faith or not, MOST of the world's large humanitarian organizations have their basis in the Christian faith or their leaders were from Christian backgrounds. The largest and most well know would be the Red Cross, but there are many. In my own country, the fact that we have universal medicare for free, is due to the hard work of Tommy Douglas who was a Baptist minister before being elected to government. Thats no small contribution to the life of every single Canadian because we have all benefited from his vision - and it came from his faith.

            Therefore, when someone like Robertson dies, I expect the criticism, but I would say that it most often comes from people who only focus and only know of his faults or things he said they found offensive, and not his the things he did that were admirable. No man is pure evil nor pure good, but on the balance of probabilities, Robertson did a lot more good in the world than evil. Was he a saint? Likely not, but he did a lot more good than I ever have.

            Thats the nuance thats missing in the criticism.

            1 vote
            1. Good_Apollo
              Link Parent
              That's not nuance, that's just deflection using your religion as the shield. The dude said HIV was god's plan to weed gay people from society. Excuse my French, but FUCK that guy.

              That's not nuance, that's just deflection using your religion as the shield.

              The dude said HIV was god's plan to weed gay people from society. Excuse my French, but FUCK that guy.

              8 votes
            2. [2]
              Gramage
              (edited )
              Link Parent
              People's opinion of him isn't swinging negative because he was "strongly Christian." Our opinion of him is negative because he was strongly a terrible person filled to the brim with hate. You're...

              Im well aware of how negatively MOST of the posts swing toward the negative on anyone or anything that is strongly Christian. That's not new.

              People's opinion of him isn't swinging negative because he was "strongly Christian." Our opinion of him is negative because he was strongly a terrible person filled to the brim with hate. You're trying to phrase it like he is being unfairly persecuted for being Christian and that is simply not true, I would say the same things about him if he was an atheist. He wanted all gay people to die and thanked god for sending AIDS to kill them, what more do you need? I have gay friends and relatives, anyone who actively promotes harm against my friends and family is my enemy.

              In my own country, the fact that we have universal medicare for free, is due to the hard work of Tommy Douglas who was a Baptist minister before being elected to government. Thats no small contribution to the life of every single Canadian because we have all benefited from his vision - and it came from his faith.

              No, it did not come from his faith. As a child he had Osteomyelitis and almost lost a leg, but a well known orthopedic surgeon offered to treat him for free if his parents would allow medical students to observe. It took several operations but they managed to save his leg. It was that experience that made him believe healthcare should be free for everyone. In his own words:

              I felt that no boy should have to depend either for his leg or his life upon the ability of his parents to raise enough money to bring a first-class surgeon to his bedside.

              As a Canadian I'm actually offended that you would bring up Tommy Douglas in order to defend Pat Robertson. It does, however, completely destroy your belief that Robertson is only so hated because he was Christian. If that was the case, I'd hate Douglas too, but I don't. I don't care about anyone's religion as long as they are otherwise a good person and don't try to force their beliefs on me. Tommy Douglas was a good man who did good things. Pat Robertson wished some of my friends and family dead. There is no comparison between the two.

              (For the record, Douglas had some questionable views on homosexuality too. He believed it was a disease that could be cured through psychiatry. Despite this he did however vote in favour of Bill C-150 which decriminalized homosexuality, definitely a step up from Mr Robertson)

              2 votes
              1. gowestyoungman
                Link Parent
                Thats a very incomplete reason for his impetus for free healthcare. That was one event as a young boy that lit a spark but its very clear from reading his life history that "the greatest Canadian"...

                No, it did not come from his faith. As a child he had Osteomyelitis and almost lost a leg, but a well known orthopedic surgeon offered to treat him for free if his parents would allow medical students to observe. It took several operations but they managed to save his leg. It was that experience that made him believe healthcare should be free for everyone. In his own words:

                Thats a very incomplete reason for his impetus for free healthcare. That was one event as a young boy that lit a spark but its very clear from reading his life history that "the greatest Canadian" life motivation came from his faith and his experience as a preacher who had a very strong belief in a Social Gospel.

                One cannot overstate Douglas’ influence over Canada. As Lorne Calvert describes, "The social vision and goals of the social gospel movement – human rights, trade union legislation, labor standards, pensions, medicare, – non-existent a century or even fifty years ago – are now taken for granted as defining of Canada. Even the most right wing of political ideologies must at least pay homage to the principles born of the social gospel movement. The movement has shaped us, there is no question."

                Douglas’s political conviction was from the teachings of Scripture, particularly what he saw to be the kingdom of heaven as summarized in the Social Gospel movement. Douglas sought to bring heaven to earth.

                ...Douglas’ vision and zeal is attributable to nothing other than his commitment to following Christ.

                We quickly find that Douglas had deep convictions based on his Baptist faith: his commitment to theological honesty and reformulation, his doctrinal minimalism (no dogma but the New Testament), practically challenging the status quo, and enacting the kingdom of God in this world. Douglas’ life can be summarized easily in the prayer he often prayed (and more importantly lived): “…thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven…” (Matt. 6:10) https://spencerboersma.com/2017/01/17/kingdom-come-tommy-douglas-baptist-preacher-turned-politician/

                Good ol' Tommy Douglas was a devout Christian who lived his faith through and through - and changed Canada for the better because of it.

        2. vord
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          I would say to both you and @AgustusFerdinand (because they hit it pretty solid)... We don't celebrate so much as have a wake. Many of the other posters sharing how Pat personally damaged them,...

          I would say to both you and @AgustusFerdinand (because they hit it pretty solid)...

          We don't celebrate so much as have a wake. Many of the other posters sharing how Pat personally damaged them, their families, and their communities is a healthy outlet, and is frankly what should be left on Pat's digital headstone. Much how people will share stories of a loved one whom died. It's more productive than what you'd see elsewhere with the indiscriminate vitrol and profanity IMO.

          Whilst I have disdain for Pat for numerous reasons, it's not strictly personal. However, when Sean Hannity kicks the bucket...... I will have many words.

          4 votes
    2. Adys
      Link Parent
      In general, no. But I suspect people are happy when certain others, one way or another, are no longer able to add their broken moral values on an already struggling world. I cannot comment on this...

      In general, no. But I suspect people are happy when certain others, one way or another, are no longer able to add their broken moral values on an already struggling world. I cannot comment on this one dude, as I didn’t know him until now, but I can sympathise with that.

      I’ll say this: one of my strongest “spiritual” beliefs is that we are all one with the universe; part of the same system. Someone once asked me how I reconcile that with being happy about certain people dying.

      But if you had cancer, wouldn’t you be happy when your cancerous cells died? Though they are “part of you”, aren’t they?

      11 votes
    3. [5]
      TemulentTeatotaler
      Link Parent
      If a death is news-worthy it will be posted, and then you'll likely have a self-selection of those who reply. Those that don't have much to say or have some compunction about "speaking ill of the...

      If a death is news-worthy it will be posted, and then you'll likely have a self-selection of those who reply.

      Those that don't have much to say or have some compunction about "speaking ill of the dead" (me, if irrational) won't have a reason to post, so you'll get people celebrating in a way you may find distasteful.

      Just to explore your thoughts, do you think you would be opposed to celebrating death if it was someone like Pol Pot or Josephy Kony? What about someone directly impacted by the actions of the deceased, like the children of Josef Fritzl, or the neighbors who alerted police about Dahmer?

      If you find yourself on the same sort of spectrum where some deaths are worth celebrating (e.g., because they signify one less child warlord in the world) I think its easier to understand why others are celebrating something you find distasteful.

      10 votes
      1. [4]
        zhanteimi
        Link Parent
        I celebrate no deaths.

        I celebrate no deaths.

        2 votes
        1. [3]
          TemulentTeatotaler
          Link Parent
          If you hold the position that it is wrong--not just for yourself, but for others--to celebrate the death of someone committing genocide, then yeah, you're probably not going to find much support.

          If you hold the position that it is wrong--not just for yourself, but for others--to celebrate the death of someone committing genocide, then yeah, you're probably not going to find much support.

          7 votes
          1. [2]
            zhanteimi
            Link Parent
            Actually I'm just trying to gauge how similar in tone Tildes is to Reddit.

            Actually I'm just trying to gauge how similar in tone Tildes is to Reddit.

            3 votes
            1. TemulentTeatotaler
              Link Parent
              Fair enough! As with most content out there you can to some extent curate your experience. There are plenty of great, thoughtful, empathetic people on tildes, including some new faces. Nothing...

              Fair enough!

              As with most content out there you can to some extent curate your experience. There are plenty of great, thoughtful, empathetic people on tildes, including some new faces. Nothing about this event will lend itself to that sort of discussion.

              Some people that otherwise would be tonally what you're looking for may have suffered directly (e.g., a grandparent giving away their savings to the 700 Club) or indirectly (homeless after years of childhood abuse from a Christian family) from the influence Pat Robertson had. Both of those examples coming from people I've known.

              You may celebrate no deaths, but you probably haven't had any experience comparable to surviving Auschwitz. We were, thankfully, not locked in a sex dungeon for a decade by a parent. Neither of us can understand, except through some limited capacity to empathise, what that is like or what load-bearing role hate can take.

              I don't mean to go to a hyperbolic place for anything but rhetorical use, but I get where you're coming from so I wanted to express that I think you miss a piece of the puzzle of understanding humans if you don't understand the use-and-abuse of hate.

              It would be unthinkable to me to tell someone who was the only member of their family who survived the concentration camps that it was wrong to feel hate towards their captors, or feel humanised by the expressions of disgust/hate on the allied forces. From that hyperbolic extreme it's easier to get people having strong feelings about Phyllis Schlafly or Limbaugh dying.

              And if hate is a real piece of the human puzzle it is going to be pretty hard to escape in any sort of forum, since, well, people are people.

              18 votes
    4. knocklessmonster
      Link Parent
      We generally try to prevent it from being the norm but distateful discourse and discussion happen everywhere. Not to defend what I also agree is poor behavior, even if its towards who I feel to be...

      We generally try to prevent it from being the norm but distateful discourse and discussion happen everywhere. Not to defend what I also agree is poor behavior, even if its towards who I feel to be a demonstrably bad actor. Assuming you've been here long enough (a week?) You can also tag them accordingly as malice or however you feel is appropriate as part of our moderation system. The timeframe is just for when the feature turns on.

      2 votes
  8. Bakethatham
    Link
    I wanted to try and find love in any life that ends. A moment of time in which we could understand the frailness of a human perspective, that fails more than succeeds. I look at what this man has...

    I wanted to try and find love in any life that ends. A moment of time in which we could understand the frailness of a human perspective, that fails more than succeeds. I look at what this man has done in his life, and found quite a bit of that. We are all shallows, changing day to day with tides and landslides. But a man of faith only needs to find love in pain and suffering to bring peace to its victims, scapegoating them is a weak understanding of the complexities of God. I am sorry for the lives he marginalized, and for the people turned from faith because he couldn't find love or compassion times when God would call for it the most. There are some people who sit far from a bonfire on a cold fall night, they stare at its brilliance but cannot bring themselves to let the fire warm them. Maybe they think the fire is dangerous, or maybe they have never felt that kind of warmth before, so they shout at other people walking toward the flame to stay by him, to gather their warmth. His is a lesson in the difference between the fire from fear, be warm my friends.

    4 votes
  9. thechadwick
    Link
    One of my favorite Chris Hitchens quotes was about Jerry Falwell's death, “If you gave Falwell an enema, he could be buried in a matchbox.” Good riddance. May this breed of television grifter go...

    One of my favorite Chris Hitchens quotes was about Jerry Falwell's death, “If you gave Falwell an enema, he could be buried in a matchbox.”

    Good riddance. May this breed of television grifter go extinct with the rest of the rotten lot.

  10. Brock_Knifemann
    Link
    Let us welcome him to the Void that awaits to consume his soul.

    Let us welcome him to the Void that awaits to consume his soul.

    6 votes