11 votes

Emergency medical personnel in Minnesota regularly dose restrained patients with Ketamine

11 comments

  1. [6]
    Comment deleted by author
    Link
    1. [3]
      Gaywallet
      Link Parent
      As a former EMT, no. There is no legitimate medical purpose for them in an ambulance. In a surgical room, maybe, and there's some limited use among mental health professionals. Otherwise it's used...

      As a former EMT, no. There is no legitimate medical purpose for them in an ambulance. In a surgical room, maybe, and there's some limited use among mental health professionals. Otherwise it's used almost exclusively on animals.

      9 votes
      1. [3]
        Comment deleted by author
        Link Parent
        1. NoCoolUsrrname
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          There are so many great big WTF's in the article it's hard to choose just one.

          There are so many great big WTF's in the article it's hard to choose just one.

          3 votes
        2. Gaywallet
          Link Parent
          There's a lot of people out there that need to be fired and criminally prosecuted.

          There's a lot of people out there that need to be fired and criminally prosecuted.

          3 votes
    2. [2]
      tildesatwindmills
      Link Parent
      Ketamine is sometimes used on children as a surgical anesthesia, but I've not heard of it being used in an emergency get-to-hospital kind of way.

      Ketamine is sometimes used on children as a surgical anesthesia, but I've not heard of it being used in an emergency get-to-hospital kind of way.

      3 votes
      1. Kom
        Link Parent
        when my daughter broke her arm they gave her ketamine, once her arm was set and she was getting the plaster on that was the most hilarious shit I've ever seen and I wish to this day my phone...

        when my daughter broke her arm they gave her ketamine, once her arm was set and she was getting the plaster on that was the most hilarious shit I've ever seen and I wish to this day my phone didn't die.

  2. [5]
    arghdos
    Link
    I had never heard of Ketamine being used as a "date-rape" drug as referenced in the title of this article. Is this a commonly known thing elsewhere in the world? Or newspaper clickbait? The...

    I had never heard of Ketamine being used as a "date-rape" drug as referenced in the title of this article. Is this a commonly known thing elsewhere in the world? Or newspaper clickbait?

    The wikipedia article on it has a few references to date-rape, notably in India, an article on CAMH which unhelpfully says the "media" refers to it this way:

    For this reason it has been commonly referred to in the media as a "date rape" drug. Take caution at parties and bars—watch your drink.

    and a UCSMD article that references a relatively old (2000) work from Jansen which references frickin' Cosmopolitan of all things (Cosmopolitan. 1997. Sedate rape. Cosmopolitan 25th Anniversary Issue. March: 109, if anyone can find the article)

    That to me sounds like some old "wisdom" from the 90's rearing it's anti-drug head.


    That said:

    Minneapolis police officers have repeatedly requested over the past three years that Hennepin County medical responders sedate people using the powerful tranquilizer ketamine, at times over the protests of those being drugged, and in some cases when no apparent crime was committed, a city report shows.

    On multiple occasions, in the presence of police, Hennepin Healthcare EMS workers injected suspects of crimes and others who already appeared to be restrained, according to the report, and the ketamine caused heart or breathing failure, requiring them to be medically revived. Several people given ketamine had to be intubated.

    Forcefully injecting people with a drug, and then doing it so poorly that they need resuscitation is horrendously wrong.

    6 votes
    1. [2]
      NoCoolUsrrname
      Link Parent
      I really did not want to throw out a clickbait article. The first one I saw on this topic was more than a little hyberbolic, so I intentionally looked to the local newspaper for a more in depth...

      I really did not want to throw out a clickbait article. The first one I saw on this topic was more than a little hyberbolic, so I intentionally looked to the local newspaper for a more in depth story. To me, it's wildly medically unethical. Emergency personnel are taking medical orders from cops with no medical certification or training and against the wishes of patients. Beyond that, this is a medical institution that's paid out of state funds. It absolutely screams medical malpractice.

      5 votes
      1. arghdos
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        Gotcha - the article itself is fairly well written (local reporting is a plus), I was just a bit confused by the subtitle - which doesn't appear on mobile - labeling ketamine the 'date rape drug'....

        Gotcha - the article itself is fairly well written (local reporting is a plus), I was just a bit confused by the subtitle - which doesn't appear on mobile - labeling ketamine the 'date rape drug'. That point is fairly tangential to the article itself---it appears briefly in the fifth paragraph:"Minneapolis police previously had no policy addressing the drug, and the department manual classifies it as a “date rape drug”---and had no real point being there, other than biasing readers against Ketamine from the get-go (or grabbing extra clicks). I'm willing to chalk that up to editors and SEO though :p

        3 votes
    2. [2]
      shazbot
      Link Parent
      Whether or not Ketamine is a date rape drug is irrelevant to the other content of the article. Even if Ketamine were widely known to be such, I can't see any reason for mentioning it other than to...

      Whether or not Ketamine is a date rape drug is irrelevant to the other content of the article. Even if Ketamine were widely known to be such, I can't see any reason for mentioning it other than to add a bit of sensationalism. Nowhere does the article claim that the police are date raping these victims. It's a shame, this is a serious and important subject matter. They did a decent job of reporting it, but had to undermine themselves by slipping in that little sensationalistic taste. This type of reporting makes more room for the counter-arguments that always come from the police-affiliated folks in discussions about abuse by the police. When they start up the refrain of "you aren't there, you don't have all the information..." well, that argument works a bit better when you threw in non-sequiturs about horrible things like date rape. You're reporting on real abuse but mixing it in with an unfair smear.

      4 votes
      1. arghdos
        Link Parent
        Particularly when Ketamine has been the topic of quite a bit of research for dealing with treatment-resistant depression (TRD):

        They did a decent job of reporting it, but had to undermine themselves by slipping in that little sensationalistic taste.

        Particularly when Ketamine has been the topic of quite a bit of research for dealing with treatment-resistant depression (TRD):

        Ketamine has been demonstrated to play a fundamental role in the treatment of TRD patients, elucidating new and intriguing insights into the neurobiology of this complex condition. Although limited to initial observations, ketamine may be effective not only in TRD patients but also on suicidality. However, future studies are recommended in order to test the efficacy of ketamine when compared with other active comparators such as electroconvulsive therapy or antidepressant-antipsychotic drugs combinations.

        3 votes
  3. Reasonable_Doubt
    Link
    Ketamine is often used during dental surgery. My spouse received it during wisdom tooth removal.

    Ketamine is often used during dental surgery. My spouse received it during wisdom tooth removal.